I’m kind of baffled by a post over at one of my favorite blogs on China’s controversial quarantining of Mexicans (and later some travelers from Canada as well).
The general theme seems to be that these measures are overly aggressive.
Yet six years ago, when the SARS virus was spreading through China, the government’s response was widely criticized as not aggressive enough: it was “evasive and tardy“. Many interpreted this as par for the course from communists, and the lesson the Weekly Standard took away, for example, was: “Democratic, accountable, transparent governments do a lot better at dealing with a health crisis than a Communist one.”
Although the Chinese government is perhaps more resilient than most when it comes to ignoring international ignominy, they certainly didn’t look good, and of course, they also had their citizens to answer to.
When the swine flu stories broke, China was ready. Armed with experience from the SARS epidemic, the government acted swiftly and aggressively, issuing a notice requiring people with flu symptoms who were flying into China from affected areas to report to quarantine authorities. They issued notices on prevention, stocked drugs and researched quick and accurate tests. They even donated aid to help Mexico, despite unsubstantiated reports from that country and others claiming that the origin of the swine flu virus was China.
Okay. I’m all for screening and acting aggressively – if you also act intelligently and rationally. And I’m always in favor of donations for worthy causes. But this is a pretty flawed argument.
The response to SARS by the CCP cannot simply be described as “evasive and tardy,“ although it was each of those things. More importantly, however, is that it was criminal, it was consciously and inexcusably irresponsible, it led to unnecessary deaths and hysteria, it was a shining example of the party holding the idiotic spectacle of its annual rubber-stamp National Party Congress above the health and well being of its citizens. It was a cover-up that so shocked the world that the government is still struggling to recover its tarnished image.
So it’s little surprise that now they would rush to show the world how zealous and diligent they are. But I see this as akin to George W. Bush ignoring documented terrorist threats that were thrust in front of his nose weeks before 19 jihadists brought America to its knees, and then using the occasion to launch an irrational and ineffective war on terror showcasing the torture of anybody rounded up by bounty hunters in Pakistan and Afghanistan and then wasting America’s resources invading a country that had nothing to do with the attack.
Not an exact parallel (the Hu administration is smarter than Bush’s) but the basic point remains: Jumping into action and “doing something” without rhyme or reason does not show aggressive leadership. To me, it’s just the opposite. But don’t just take my word for it. The WSJ has an excellent story on China’s over-zealous attempt to show how responsive they are to the health crisis. Tell me if you think this illustrates good judgment:
Mexicans who were on the flight to Shanghai with the 25-year-old flu victim complain about how China has enforced its quarantine, offering little information and only basic medical testing. Among them is a family of five, including three young children, who transited to Beijing. They were roused from their hotel room in the Chinese capital in the early hours of Saturday and whisked to an infectious diseases hospital. There, according to the father, Carlos Doormann, AeroMéxico’s finance director, they were isolated in a room with bloodstained sheets and what appeared to be mucus smeared on the walls.
“I’m frustrated and sad,” said Mr. Doormann, whose family has since been moved to the nearby Guo Men Hotel on the outskirts of the Chinese capital, where they are in quarantine along with five other Mexican nationals, including Mr. Carrillo.
According to accounts from Mexicans in the hotel, Mexican travelers arriving on various flights from Mexico and the U.S. were singled out by health officials who boarded the aircraft wearing white protective suits, masks and rubber gloves. They led away Mexican passport holders. Several travelers said Chinese television camera crews surprised them at the doors of their aircraft as they emerged. They said the filming continued through the windows of an isolation ward at the Beijing Ditan infectious diseases hospital….Chinese authorities allowed Mexico’s ambassador to China, Jorge Guajardo, to enter the hotel on Sunday but refused him permission to see the quarantined Mexicans or to call up to their rooms, Mexican officials said.
Welcome to China.
So to make sure my point is clear: Action for action’s sake isn’t necessarily better than no action at all. Some of those rounded up in China hadn’t even been to Mexico in recent months, but the Mexican passport was grounds enough for quarantine. None of the Mexicans rounded up like criminals showed any symptoms of the sickness. They were rounded up only because they were Mexicans. And that is irrational and hysterical.
One of the most maddening defenses I’ve read of this passport-based quarantining was in a Chinese editorial claiming this was “best for the passengers” because they’ll be under close medical supervision in case they begin to show symptoms. You see, it’s all for their sake, and it’s only because we care.
Really? Let’s go back to the WSJ:
The Mexican guests at the Guo Men Hotel have had no contact with Chinese officials, except health workers, and have no idea how long they will have to stay. “We’re held hostage here,” said Mr. Doormann. Twice each day, nurses leave thermometers outside their rooms. No other medical testing is carried out.
So before we congratulate China for their bold and aggressive tactics,let’s first ask ourselves: Do these tactics actually make anyone safer? Are their actions based on science or hysteria? (And I love the way the WSJ refers to them as “the Mexican guests at the Guo An Men hotel” – maybe a bit of black humor?)
And let me add, I thought the quarantining of the hotel in Hong Kong,while extreme, at least made sense. We had an actual infection there. In Beijing, nothing. Just fear and ignorance. Kind of like police who put on latex gloves and face masks when questioning a suspect who has AIDS. I don’t applaud them for caution, I attack them for their ignorance and bigotry.
As you can see, this topic renders me humorless. Anything that brings back memories of the CCP’s bungling of SARS in 2003 has that effect. Because, as the whistleblowing hero of that ugly event can tell you, lives were at stake. People died. And it didn’t have to be; it was an executive decision to let people die so the NPC could carry on in harmony. (If you are a new reader, please see that post for a better idea of what it was like to be here during “the good old days” of SARS. It was a pivotal moment in my first stay here.)
To end on a lighter note, I absolutely loved this post about the quarantine by another great China blogger. It starts out semi-serious:
Charitably, the jury is still out on the epidemiological efficacy of quarantining the Mexicans. Uncharitably, it was a scattershot, poorly-thought-out bit of knee-jerk policy that did for Chinese-Mexican relations what the notorious P3 incident off of Hainan did for Chinese-US relations in 2002.
And then it gets very, very funny. I wish I could feel that funny today.
Update: For some excellent perspective, please go here now.
1
By Michael2
You could argue (as Dr Margaret Chan, director general of WHO has done) that it is better to be safe than sorry. But the quarantine enforcement as applied to Mexicans and Canadians has been both inconsistent and unscientific. Chinese authorities are putting on a show for their own domestic audience rather than acting out of concern for public health. I think it’s fair to say they have hurt the feelings of the Mexican people.
May 6, 2009 @ 7:11 pm | Comment
2
By stuart
Great breakdown of the story, Richard. Chinageeks was well wide of the mark on this one.
May 6, 2009 @ 7:28 pm | Comment
3
By Si
Chinageeks missed the point which is that people are being locked up on the basis of their passport, not for having recently been in a swine flu infected country. If the CCP really wants to protect the Chinese people from swine flu, the logical thing to do would be to ban entry to any foreign nationals coming from a swine flu infected country and quarantining returning nationals. This of course would require some sort of organisation and subtlety of approach which isn’t the CCP’s strong point, to put it mildly.
May 6, 2009 @ 7:40 pm | Comment
4
By AndyR
This story cracks me up…another example of how we have to view almost every CCP response to an issue as concocted with the domestic audience in mind. Domestically this move is a HUGE hit, while the rest of the world is left scratching their heads as to what the heck the government is thinking. Two completely different worlds…
May 6, 2009 @ 7:55 pm | Comment
5
By C. Custer
For the record, “evasive and tardy” is a direct quote from the source I was talking about, not my own characterization of the events. Hence the quotation marks.
Nor was my point that the Chinese response to the situation has been perfect. My point was mostly that (1) their overzealousness is understandable and (2) that the worst thing I know of that’s happened as a result of it is a little bit of inconvenience for a small group of people. Honestly, so what? Yes, it’s a pain to be kept in a hotel or whatever, and I think those people should be tested and released soon, but its understandable. You said some of those people hadn’t been in Mexico recently but as I understand it (and I may be wrong), all of them had been in North America recently, and since the other two North American countries are the other two biggest sources of infection, I don’t see why they shouldn’t be quarantined, too.
I’m not saying everything they’ve done is OK, but it does bother me there’s a giant media frenzy about this, yet there are much more important things to be talking about. Every other day it seems like I’m translating some story about how the government is harassing and deleting Ai Weiwei’s noble Sichuan Earthquake Victims Project, or rural townspeople are being beaten, kidnapped, and even killed by crooked cops while their superiors stand around watching them die. Yet the story that the international media picks up is about how some Mexicans are locked in a crappy Beijing hotel, and stories about real oppression are lucky to get linked in the China Digital Times or a nod on ESWN.
Perhaps I’ve lost my perspective here, but it seems…off.
May 6, 2009 @ 8:25 pm | Comment
6
By Richard
Custer, I am not saying this was oppression. Just stupid and unworthy of congratulations as proof that they learned their lessons from SARS. And I’ve blogged plenty about the earthquake scandals and Tiananmen Square (and will continue to do so). But this story rubbed me the wrong way and the media’s picking it up is not at all surprising. What China is doing, in contradiction to advice from the WHO, is newsworthy and fair game.
What got me to write this was not the quarantine itself. It was your post that seemed in effect to congratulate China for doing it. And you know I link to you all the time and always say what a great site you run, and that hasn’t changed. I was simply floored when I read your post, I disagreed so totally.
As a former PR person and now semi-journalist myself, stories like this fascinate me. How could China do something that any PR person could have told them would blow up in their faces, and that any well-trained epidemiologist could have told them would do nothing to keep the public safer? You can protect the pubic without getting hysterical.
May 6, 2009 @ 9:08 pm | Comment
7
By Kai
Richard, I largely agree with your conclusion and disagreement with Custer. I don’t, however, think the government is actually getting hysterical. I think they’ve just issued lousy decrees that were lousily handled by lousier subordinates…and they have a lousy way of explaining themselves. I think both you and I agree that’s actually par for the course with the Chinese government in terms of general PR.
May 6, 2009 @ 9:35 pm | Comment
8
By zjin
Richard, as a former PR, you should know it. I think AndyR already said it: Domestically this move is a HUGE hit.
It is a good PR for domestic audience. And Mexican? Seriously, it is probably many steps lower on the priority list.
May 6, 2009 @ 9:38 pm | Comment
9
By Richard
Kai, you’re right of course. But – and it’s an important but – they need to realize that in the eyes of a world that does not yet “understand China,” this sort of action looks hysterical and paints a picture of a country that’s knee-jerk and out-of-control. We know it’s business as usual, but in the eyes of most others it’s flat-out nuts.
May 6, 2009 @ 9:47 pm | Comment
10
By Kai
Richard, yes, I agree with that. I’m not very sympathetic to China’s PR modus operandi and what appears to be their insistence on NOT getting a clue. It is positively maddening (and yeah, Will often does a good job making light of it).
May 6, 2009 @ 9:56 pm | Comment
11
By Richard
zjin, the CCP already has the hearts and minds of its people pretty well sewn up. Yes, this may have scored them some extra points. But it’s going to make people traveling to China think very carefully, and if it impedes tourism and business it may not be so warmly welcomed here on the mainland. I see any pluses strongly outweighed by minuses.
May 6, 2009 @ 10:06 pm | Comment
12
By Si
I don’t understand why locking up foreign nationals is a huge hit domestically and if it is, then it is pretty saddening. Surely denying them entry would be the obvious thing to do, or simply expelling them. Either way I personally would be concerned about travelling to China if it meant I might end up being locked up because there is swine flu in my country. What Custer doesn’t seem to get is the if the CCP decides to lock people up it should do so on the basis of having been in infected areas recently, not on the basis as having the passport of a country which has swine flu. How many foreigners who have been in North America recently who aren’t Mexican have been locked up?
May 6, 2009 @ 10:19 pm | Comment
13
By FOARP
The thing which this event makes clear is that, when it comes to emergencies like this, it is probably a very few people who are making the decisions, and they do so without any real expert advice. One wonders if economic decisions are also generated this way.
Oh, and the way-over-the-top final response to SARS was almost as bad and equally as unscientific as the previous down-playing of it. Since SARS simply disappeared by itself in a way which is yet to be properly explained, it is hard to credit anything that the Chinese government did as having had much effect.
Their response to bird flu was much better and much more measured – why aren’t they following a similar operating procedure as was carried out then – using local quarantines and controls based on scientific testing? I suspect it has something to do with the men in charge. Agriculture is an industry in which the CCP has much in the way of expertise, but disease control in the wider population is a different beast.
May 6, 2009 @ 10:24 pm | Comment
14
By Richard
Si, below is a thread this post generated over on Facebook. Note the reaction of Shanghai resident Burney.
That pretty much says it all. The government simply “did something” – never mind if that something made sense or actually achieved anything, but it was “something,” and many Chinese people are grateful and feel safer for it. And if a Westerner like me raises the simple question, “Did that something achieve anything?” all hell breaks loose, and someone who was a friend a minute ago is indignant that foreigners are complaining about something that was so obviously for the public good. Surely we do not understand China.
But I do understand China, and I understand that anyone who doesn’t understand what makes Burney say this and get emotional about it – that person doesn’t understand China. (And Si, I know that you do understand China.) This is what sometimes makes communication here so maddening, akin to slamming one’s head against a stainless steel wall. With nails protruding from it. Not only can I never get Burney to tell me why he thinks segregating Mexicans who haven’t been to Mexico makes China safer, but simply asking the question raises all sorts of alarms, presumptions and accusations. If I press further with the “why” question, it will be further evidence to him of the arrogance and superciliousness of foreigners.
FOARP, agree with most of what you say. We do know why SARS disappeared and its demise was predicted in advance, as soon as it was identified as a corona virus – it dies in warmer weather. Why it disappeared for good – well, that’s a good question. I give the CCP credit for doing some things right. SARS wasn’t one of them.
May 6, 2009 @ 10:36 pm | Comment
15
By Si
@foarp
“The thing which this event makes clear is that, when it comes to emergencies like this, it is probably a very few people who are making the decisions, and they do so without any real expert advice. One wonders if economic decisions are also generated this way.”
excellent point. my personal belief is the ccp does get expert advice, but will only really act on it if (a) it is politically expedient to do so or (b) the disaster is now so apparent they have to act on it.
@richard
i know what you mean about the completely myopic way of looking at things. there is no concept of the way this may look to the outside world, or the idea that they should at least try to work with them. i bet there is a whole “they are only mexicans and therefore not very important” thing going on here as well. i am not convinced they would try this on with the us or the eu, even though logically speaking they have just as much right to start banging up the brits and yanks as they do mexicans. people complain in europe about americans being too inward looking and ignorant about the world at large, but frankly the us has nothing on china in that regard.
May 6, 2009 @ 11:37 pm | Comment
16
By Meg
I agree with what Si said in #15.
Well, finally some disease did not come from China but from another 3rd world country, of course they would seize the chance to show tough actions for their people to see and and superiority toward the Mexicans.
In #14 “…indignant that foreigners are complaining about something that was so obviously for the public good”
“If I press further with the ‘why’ question, it will be further evidence to him of the arrogance and superciliousness of foreigners.”
I am reading Atlas Shrugged at the moment and do not like it because I think the scenario described in the book is just too far fetch. But now I see there do exist people who really do not care about logic or reason.
I kind of think China handled it this way partially because they do not condescendingly think their own people are not capable of understanding anything with more nuance. “Swine flu started in Mexico-round up Mexicans” is the obvious straight line for them to connect. If you just do it for show, this would be the easiest one.
May 7, 2009 @ 1:16 am | Comment
17
By ecodelta
Can you just imagine the brouhaha that would have aroused in China if the situation was the reverse?
China nationals being locked up without much of a reason than having a Chinese passport, because of a flu outbreak in a certain location that happened to be in China, no matter if they even didn’t visited China for years before the outbreak.
Maybe we should start applying PR with Chinese characteristics…. Maybe then they would get a clue.
Hey! Is for their own good 😉 .. and safety 😛
May 7, 2009 @ 4:33 am | Comment
18
By stuart
“I don’t understand why locking up foreign nationals is a huge hit domestically and if it is, then it is pretty saddening.”
I think this kind of action taps into the carefully nurtured nationalistic psyche prevalent in China right now. As ever, the lack of questioning among Chinese citizens of their government’s measures doesn’t lend itself to progress: if it was popular this time, the formula is sure to be repeated.
May 7, 2009 @ 5:15 am | Comment
19
By ecodelta
Hhhhmmmmm
lack of questioning …or not possible questioning…. or not use questioning….. or dangerous questioning……or raised for not questioning…. or hidden questioning….
May 7, 2009 @ 5:36 am | Comment
20
By tom
OK, a few Mexicans get dissed, big deal.
Get Real! It is China, where 200 million migrants roam and where many cities with immense population density. Any spreading disease can a death thread to China to the whole nation and should be treated as such. Forget about diplomatic nicety, it is potentially life and death at the stake.
May 7, 2009 @ 8:51 am | Comment
21
By Richard
Tom, I pose this simple question and look forward to your reply: How does rounding up people with a Mexican passport who haven’t been to Mexico in many months help to keep China safer? With your logic, we should simply seal off the borders altogether.
The pattern is pretty clear. Many Chinese people sincerely believe this helps to keep them safe, and appreciate their government’s aggressive but necessary action. When asked for specifics about how it makes them safe, they reply, “This is a matter of life and death.”
I’ve learned the hard way how far I can go in an argument with most of my Chinese friends, especially about hot topics like the Three T’s, Mao’s legacy, the Three Gorges dam, etc. Let’s add this one to the list. And I do appreciate that no one wants to hear a foreigner tell them all the things that are wrong about their country, the foreigner’s host (even if that’s not my intention). But that the discussions follow such a similar path with all the same roadblocks is a constant source of wonder.
May 7, 2009 @ 9:10 am | Comment
22
By Richard
“Okay, a few Mexicans get dissed…”
Looking at Si’s comment above, I’d have to say he got it exactly right:
May 7, 2009 @ 9:14 am | Comment
23 Posted at sun-zoo.com
[…] 2: The Peking Duck responds to this post: Okay. I’m all for screening and acting aggressively – if you also act […]
May 7, 2009 @ 9:40 am | Pingback
24
By tom
After reading some of comments above, I am really amazed at how little people know China and yet seem so ready and eager to analyze and criticize the Chinese government.
As I said in my previous post above, given the flux of migrants and population density, any spreading disease can be death threat to the nation. In this regard, China is uniquely unusual. After all, there is no other nation that has 200 MILLION migrants, not even in the entire human history, not ever.
Like it or not, this is the way China lives and China is. The 200 MILLION migrants can drive China’s leadership and governance crazy in all kind of ways. Health crisis is just one of lethal threats. If not careful, China can die in millions of ways at any time. China does not have the luxury of dealing potential life death crises is nicety.
Now for these poor Mexicans, the decision is easy and simply because there aren’t that many Mexicans in China, so just round them up and get rid of them, clean, simple, finish, done. The government does want have any lingering doubt and then spreading rumors of pandemic and wild spread fear. Things, real or rumor, can get out of hand very quickly with contagious disease in China.
So once again, job well done for the Wu/Wen leadership. For those who understand the potential threats China faces, we see a leadership still capable and still in vigor with efficiency and we see China is in a safe hand.
May 7, 2009 @ 9:53 am | Comment
25
By grubby
If you want to be 100% sure, then anyone going-anywhere-from-anywhere that has reported cases should spend a few days in Hotel Quarantine.
That includes Chinese divers, government officials, WHO representatives, to boot !
Oh, and I forgot about the pilots and cabin staff.
Won’t be long before air travel grinds to a halt.
Not very practical, is it ?
Not the best cure for the global economy and global trade !
But governments have been talking about the next pandemic for years. SARS was the big wake up call.
So why haven’t they thrashed out a co-ordinated response ?
Even if different countries have different response plans, why haven’t they discussed this to the extent that there’s understanding out there as to how a nation state will act when faced with the likes of swine flu ?
If there’s more understanding, then folk know what to expect – and countries don’t have to waste energy by wheeling out officials and lawyers to defend their actions.
Sure, if a virulent sickness took hold here in China…..could you imagine !
The trouble is, China’s handling of health matters like AIDS, SARS, baby milk poisoning has so damaged the country’s credibility – and she is viewed with suspicion and cynicism.
By the way, China had its own swine flu problem back in August 2005 – and the authorities didn’t deal with that well either !
See the trackback below for a reminder video.
http://www.grubbylens.com/a-pig-of-a-passport/
May 7, 2009 @ 10:18 am | Comment
26
By el chino AIP
It is hard to imagine that the ordinary Chinese could challenge their government’s treatment of the Mexicans. They themselves have been suppressed and mistreated by their government in the first place and have quite got used to it. If they were already passive to their situation, they could have become more so after they witnessed their government mistreating the foreigners in the similar way as it mistreats them. This may reinforce their feeling that they deserve how their government treats them.
Some went even further and applauded the government’s action, as if the Chinese people had eventually reached the position allowing them to mistreat other races, as the Westerners used to do with the Chinese people before.
So the abused is made to identify themselves as the abuser, which is the government. Can we call this warped mentality the Stockholm syndrome with Chinese characteristics?
May 7, 2009 @ 10:22 am | Comment
27 Posted at www.grubbylens.com
[…] Mexican? Please come with us. » The Peking Duck says — (On May 7th, 2009 at 11:09 am) […]
May 7, 2009 @ 11:42 am | Pingback
28
By tom
Richard,
You loose urgency and efficiency and you create logistical nightmare if you put all kinds nuances in policy. The disease is from Mexico and Mexicans are the disease. That is it, end of the story, get rid of them, no room for maybe or if, no rumor monger on the Internet, no speculation, no spread of fear. China needs to move on.
This is the management style China takes and is pretty good at. It works for China, at least for the last thirty years. You take whatever you have and make good use of it. Sure, some people get upset and angry about it, but so what. As long as China overall is successful that is all matters.
Nothing beats success. Success actually should beat failures if way US keeps failing and falling.
You win some and you lose some. China suffers from the millions of threats piled up by the 200 million strong migrants, but at the same time China thrives precisely because of these same migrants – they are the ultimate force driving China to a new and relentless future.
You all say China is rising, but has anyone wondered why China rises instead falls? If what China is doing is so laughable, how could China keep rising?
May 7, 2009 @ 12:12 pm | Comment
29
By kevinnolongerinpudong
“After reading some of comments above, I am really amazed at how little people know China”
I agree with TOm’s post up to this point, but find the rest a little dumb.
Instead, anyone who truly “knows China” will immediately know that the government is prone to hysterics and mood swings reminiscent of a teenager with a horrendous hormonal imbalance. And just like such a teenager, nothing can get them to change their minds.
They let things develop into a horrendous mess, and then use that horrendous mess as an excuse for horrendously iron-fisted measures (i.e. “look, we have too many people! so we need to imprison all mexicans!”- an argument used by tom; or in another example, “congratulate us for trying to clean up the corruption that has actually been created by our outdated and inept system!”)
I watched as they shifted from cover-ups and criminal lies during SARS to tooting their own horn for leading the battle against SARS (after of course, they had let it spread around the world and take hundreds of lives). I also had the unique pleasure of being quarantined, despite having remained in a single city with no (acknowledged) SARS cases. I was quarantined simply because I was a “waiguoren,” and a “waiguoren” is certainly a “waidiren” and all “waidiren” had to be quarantined. After months of lies and cover-ups, I was the one at which the finger was pointed…
And some things never change.
May 7, 2009 @ 12:49 pm | Comment
30
By Richard
The disease is from Mexico and Mexicans are the disease. That is it, end of the story, get rid of them, no room for maybe or if
Thanks for destroying your own credibility right up front.
You sound like a true fanatic and cheerleader, sorry. Go China, go, baby. And I know from experience there’s no reasoning that will get you to consider the topic objectively or rationally. What you’re saying is, China has a system that works and get things done, so this is right, too – what the government does works, unlike in the failing US. Never mind that Sweden just had a case of swine flu and if China were to follow its own logic it would now lock up everyone with a Swedish passport. And people from 22 other countries, too. In the eyes of everyone, this singling out of Mexicans, even those who haven’t been to Mexico in ages, is blatantly insane. Only China sees it as smart. And then to make it even loonier, there’s the quarantinging of Canadians,. So loony that the Chinese authorities finally gave in and let them go early today.
About the breathless China rising stuff… There’s no doubt the country has risen dramatically and I hope this continues. But looking at the severe environmental and economic issues the country faces, I suggest you be ready for a reality check, if not a hard landing than at least a worsening recession. What goes up, and all that….
Meanwhile, you’re a talking points machine. The US is failing and failing. China is thriving and doing everything right. Thanks to the government’s boldness, there is no swine flu in China. (Exactly what they said about SARS, by the way.) Anyway, this is what we were talking about earlier in the thread, about many in China being delighted about the policy and indignant about anyone questioning it. I am willing to listen and even change my mind if someone can tell me the scientific reasons why they believe the rounding up of Mexicans and detention of Canadians was a good thing.
May 7, 2009 @ 12:50 pm | Comment
31
By Richard
Thanks Kevin.
May 7, 2009 @ 12:51 pm | Comment
32
By stuart
“…there aren’t that many Mexicans in China, so just round them up and get rid of them…”
Worth repeating because I see this as indicative of the underlying feeling among most mainland Chinese, as opposed to the viewpoint of a lunatic fringe.
Remember the Alamo!!
May 7, 2009 @ 2:10 pm | Comment
33
By ecodelta
@stuart
“Remember the Alamo!!
¡Que viva México!
😉
May 7, 2009 @ 2:40 pm | Comment
34
By otherlisa
The disease is from Mexico and Mexicans are the disease.
Wow. tom, I really hope that some of your rhetoric is a consequence of English being a second language for you (and I don’t mean that as an insult; your English is far better than my Chinese). Because honestly, this is an appallingly racist thing to say, and I don’t throw around accusations of racism lightly.
The swine flu genie is out of the bottle. It’s already spread world-wide. There are sensible measures to be taken, but rounding up everyone with a Mexican passport certainly isn’t one of them. And if this measure has only been taken to reassure China’s population that “something is being done,” as you seem to be saying above, it’s nothing to celebrate. The Chinese government is quite good at mobilizing large numbers of people when it has to and quite good at nation-wide messaging – why not use this power to tell the people what they can actually do to deal with this disease?
Living in California, on the Mexican border, I’ve seen far too much racism against Mexican people in my own country – and I’m extremely thankful that in spite of the difficult issues arising from sharing a border that at least the US government is dealing with this crisis rationally and not using it as an excuse to bash Mexico. At the same time, Mexican culture is an important part of American culture (particularly where I’m from). It’s painful to see this sort of disrespect coming from China, leveled at a people and culture with so much to recommend them.
China used to see itself as a representative of the 3rd World, a member of the non-aligned movement. This is a sad state of affairs, when the government of China takes actions that encourage racism of this sort.
May 7, 2009 @ 2:45 pm | Comment
35
By ecodelta
Given the strong national feelings of most Southamerican countries I cannot imagine greater snafu than what was done with the Mexicans.
It will not only resonate in Mexico but in all other Southamerican countries.
Who is going to be the next ones Bolivians? Peruvians? Equatorians? Chileans? Colombians? Argentineans?
If you consider that nationals of a country perceived as underdeveloped, poor or just funny can be deal in such harsh manner, don’t complain about PR problems later.
Hey! I just remember an incident of CH nationals in a shopping center in Paris…
For a country that gets so quick to complain about hurt feelings they seem to be too insensitive with other people feelings.
This lack of professionalism on dealing with crisis bring not only health problems…
May 7, 2009 @ 2:54 pm | Comment
36
By ecodelta
“China used to see itself as a representative of the 3rd World, a member of the
non-aligned movement. ”
That was just a political stunt.
May 7, 2009 @ 2:57 pm | Comment
37
By ecodelta
Each time I think about it I cant stop shaking my head.
Of all the countries south of El Rio Grande, the last one you would like to fiddle
with their national feelings is México.
Just to be on safe side I wouldn’t fiddle with national feelings of any of them anyway.
A lot of “kowtow” will bee needed by CH to assuage the bad taste left. And not only there, also further south much will be needed.
May 7, 2009 @ 3:08 pm | Comment
38
By tom
Yeah, you guys all love to talk about SARS. SARS was China’s first encounter with a pandemic under the internal spot light. Sure, China was awkward at first, government went denial in attempt to placate public fear and rumor mongering. But China soon did get her act together and defeated the SARS. Sure many people got quarantined, bad luck, sorry, that is the price you pay for being in China in the wrong time. At least you didn’t die or got sick. Maybe you should be thankful that China’s draconian measure saved you. Things could be a lot worse.
So China learned from the SRAS experience and now China is proactive with potential pandemic and treating it as life and death for the nation.
Sure Sweden or other nice country can tolerate potential pandemic. They don’t have 200 million migrants. They don’t even have a million. In the scale of population, they are nobody.
Any potential pandemic, real or not, is a death threat to the Chinese nation. This is just the reality of today’s China. Get use to it. And if you don’t, China will teach you, like rounding up those Mexicans. Life can be tough in China and in the context of potential pandemic, a lot tough.
May 7, 2009 @ 3:21 pm | Comment
39
By Richard
“Awkward.” A nice euphemism for letting people die and deliberately covering up a health crisis. Awkward, indeed. Hell, Europe was “awkward” in subjecting China to the Opium Wars. Nice way to let anything and everything off the hook. “Mistakes were made.”
Your argument is still irrational. It’s still, “we have to do something, anything, whether it actually helps avoid a pandemic or not; and simply by doing something, anything, it proves the brilliance of our government.” China never defeated SARS, by the way. If died a peaceful and natural death here as it did everywhere else as spring arrived. However, unlike Singapore and Vietnam and HK, China lied to the world, denied SARS existed on its soil, and proved that it cannot be trusted. They did show improvement over bird flu, though there again they tried to control media coverage. Its mishandling of the current threat by discriminating against Mexican passport holders reinforces the notion of very bad judgment on the leaders’ part. This measure “saved” no one, but the fact that you could say that with a straight face indicates an ongoing eagerness to be manipulated and confirmation of a blind nationalism that reminds me of Orwell’s Animal Farm (“Whatever Napoleon says is right”).
May 7, 2009 @ 3:33 pm | Comment
40
By fred
I really don’t think quarantining people in a hotel really counts as ‘locking up’. Yes, it’s probably hasty and misguided but they’re not exactly throwing these people in Guantanamo. While I certainly don’t condone this move, I think swine flu and the actions and accompanying media furor, in any country, are a distraction from more important issues.
May 7, 2009 @ 3:49 pm | Comment
41
By Si
@richard
To be charitable to tom, I am not sure his English is good enough to keep up with the conversation. He responded to your point “Never mind that Sweden just had a case of swine flu and if China were to follow its own logic it would now lock up everyone with a Swedish passport.” by saying “Sure Sweden or other nice country can tolerate potential pandemic. They don’t have 200 million migrants. They don’t even have a million. In the scale of population, they are nobody.” which misses the point entirely. His English may only really be good enough to bang away on the talking points rather than engage with what is being actually said.
May 7, 2009 @ 4:08 pm | Comment
42
By otherlisa
That was just a political stunt.
That may be the case, but in terms of PR, certainly it was a much savvier approach than what the Chinese government is doing vis Mexico.
It really is appallingly foolish, on many levels.
May 7, 2009 @ 4:15 pm | Comment
43
By Richard
Fred, first of all, I made no comparisons to Gitmo. None. As to whether “locked up” is an unfair term, I guess it depends on how you define “locked up.” To me, when you whisk someone away against their will and hold them in a room from which they are not permitted to exit, they have been locked up. Let’s go back to the WSJ article and see if we think the phrase is apt:
You can call it what you will. It meets my criteria for being locked up, even if it does not compare to Gitmo or Auschwitz. Now, there are times when being locked up to protect the general public is appropriate. If screening showed that any had displayed symptoms or had been in a situation that put them at special risk, quarantining them can be justified. Singapore did this during SARS, and eventually China did too. In this instance, the locking up was arbitrary and absurd.
Si, I saw where Tom missed the point – thanks for having the patience to point it out. That said, I don’t think it’s going to do much good. He will still see this as an ingenious action that protected him from a horrible disease. That’s his right, but he should get how ridiculous it looks to anyone who knows anything about epidemiology. Or common sense.
May 7, 2009 @ 4:53 pm | Comment
44
By fred
I realize you didn’t compare it to Gitmo. And yes, if you’re in a locked room, you are technically locked up. My point is not that Chinese government did a smart thing, or the right thing. My point is that there are gradations, that some things are worse than others and there is a danger in failing to distinguish between them. My worry is that if we express so much anger, outrage, and criticism of several dozen people being ‘whisked’ to a hotel room where their embassy could bring them DVDs – what language and what attitude do we use to describe labor camps and torture?
I’m by no means saying this should be condoned or ignored. I’m saying that reacting so strongly to something like this prevents us from adequately registering our shock, anger, and disgust over bigger things. Like the response to the earthquake last year where thousands of people did die, etc.
May 7, 2009 @ 5:37 pm | Comment
45
By Richard
Don’t worry, I can bring up plenty of fresh passion about torture. This story bothers me because it is just plain stupid. Not evil. Not intentionally malicious. Just gob-smackingly dumb in every way. And hypocritical too, as the diary of one of the quarantined in Hong Kong expresses:
You see, it’s just for show. It’s just, “Look, we did something.” But the “something” is pure horseshit, going through the motions. And that’s something that drives me crazy – seeing some Chinese people stepping over one another to praise the brilliance and wisdom of their leaders when all they did was put on a stupid show.
May 7, 2009 @ 6:34 pm | Comment
46
By fred
Richard, I appreciate your feelings about torture, was just looking at your “Quote of the day, far and away” entry. I agree completely on the stupidity front. I never cease to be amazed at the govt’s propensity for blasting itself in the foot with a shotgun. Perhaps we should start printing up “First they came for the Mexicans…”. Thanks for the great blog!
May 7, 2009 @ 9:54 pm | Comment
47
By tom
OK, I see people nitpicking on some of my expression, like “The disease is from Mexico and Mexicans are the disease”. I am only trying to tell you that in the heat of day when Chinese government needs to make sure no Swing flu gets into China by Mexicans, what kind of attitude should look like.
May 7, 2009 @ 10:05 pm | Comment
48
By A Chinese
Richard:
The WSJ story you cited–
“China Forces Dozens of Mexican Travelers Into Quarantine”
Also had a Chinese counterpart in its Chinese edition, titled “中国隔离墨西哥人 两国关系或现裂痕”.
I have read both of them and have some questions .
First, I think your reply to tom in 21th post, “How does rounding up people with a Mexican passport who haven’t been to Mexico in many months help to keep China safer? ” missed one important points.
According to WSJ English edition, 5th paragraph, it was “China has been rounding up ALL TRAVELERS aboard an AeroMéxico flight that arrived Thursday in Shanghai from MEXICO with a 25-year-old Mexican man, who is now ill with human swine flu in Hong Kong.” （I put my emphasis as CAPITAL LETTER)
There is a important differences between rounding up Mexican with Mexican passports on the flight only and round up everyone on the flight that comes from Mexico, which is an infected area.
Your question that “”How does rounding up people with a Mexican passport who haven’t been to Mexico in many months help to keep China safer? ” is probably based on this sentence, presumably(tell me if I got it wrong), on 6th paragraph “Gustavo Carrillo, a 36-year-old manager of a Mexican technology company in China who lives in Beijing, was taken off his Continental Airlines plane Saturday and rushed into quarantine at a Beijing hotel. He had traveled to the U.S. from China on a business trip and hadn’t visited Mexico.”
Maybe a better question is to ask, is it reasonable for Chinese immigration and health authority to assume the followings
1st. A Mexican passport holder is a Mexican national
2nd. This Mexican had not been in China during the height of epidemic
3rd. This Mexican came to China via US(based on the information WSJ provided, “He had traveled to the U.S. from China on a business trip and hadn’t visited Mexico”)
Let me say this first, I feel deeply sorry for Mexican, they are the vicitims of this epidemic. But what conclusion can you draw from the above 3 points?
The catch is that, although Mr Carrillo had not been to Mexico, which we all know it is an infected country, he came to China via US(if we were to believe WSJ, or my English is not poor enough to got it wrong).
So what’s wrong with US?
WSJ report did not tell us which state of US he came from, but I just checked Wikipedia(ok, I know it is not reliably, especially with on going event), which says bascially US has 913 Laboratory
confirmed case of human swine flu, in comparsion, Mexico has 1112 cases by the time I posted this. More importantly, in US, there were 2 confirmed death. Well 2 and 913 is smaller compared to 42 and 1112, there is no way for the Chinese to assume he is safe simple because he came from US, which is an infected area that is not as severe as his home country but still has 2 confirmed death with 913 infected. Also, according to the Wiki article, only 6 out of 50 states in US have yet to report Laboratory confirmed case. This is also a indication of how widespread this disease has become in US.
So the issue here is not really that how can Chinese authority round up a Mexican that has not been to Mexico, but why Chinese authority should not quarantine a Mexican that has been to US, which is equally badly infected.
Further more, isn’t also reasonably for the Chinese to assume this Mexican had indeed been to Mexico in the past 1 month, as there is really no way to tell this.
May 7, 2009 @ 10:38 pm | Comment
49
By Si
@a chinese and tom
you are both missing the point. the point is, if you are going to start rounding people up and quarantining them it needs to be done on the basis of having actually been in an infected country recently, not on the basis of having the passport of said country.
if china really wanted to prevent transmission of swine flu to their country they should immediately announce a closure of their borders to traffic from infected countries and force anyone who has recently been to an infected country onto a flight back to their home country. those with the right of residency in china should be quarantined.
regarding the point about making the decision in the white heat of the moment – that is a shocking comment. the possibility of a pandemic flu has been known throughout the world for years. if the ccp has not constructed any sort of contingency plan for when it strikes, then they are frankly being criminally negligent and putting lives at risk.
May 7, 2009 @ 11:37 pm | Comment
50
By Richard
But Si, at least they’re doing something.
Your points seem so obvious. How can they go right over my readers’ heads?
May 7, 2009 @ 11:42 pm | Comment
51
By A Chinese
Si:
That’s exactly what I am addressing above, to your point “you are both missing the point. the point is, if you are going to start rounding people up and quarantining them it needs to be done on the basis of having actually been in an infected country recently, not on the basis of having the passport of said country.”
The claim that China round people up based on nationality is simple unfounded, at least I did not see you or Richard provide ANY evidence support this claim
On the contrast, it is plain obvious that from the WSJ report China did NOT round people up because they are Mexican, but because they came from US , Mexican and Canada which are the worst infected areas
I would be happy if any one of you could provide something to back up your claim that China round people up based on their nationality
In fact, the only thing I can think of about this accusation is it comes from Mexican government. Yet this quarantine also applies to CHinese citizens coming back from Mexico on charted flight.
The only thing that can be said to support your arguement is from Gustavo Carrillo, although he did not come from Mexico, he did fly back to China via US, which is also badly infected (well, you can argue US is less risky than Mexico though, it only has more than 900 cases, compare to Mexico’s more than 1000)
Basically, you are just complaint about something that does not exist!
Richard:
I am still wondering how did your CHina round people up based on their nationality idea come from. I hope I got you wrong.
Are we reading the same WSJ story?
It is not really about if government is doing something, useful or not, but about yours and other Westerners complain that even the so little government did this time was illegitimate, even if not that useful, in your eyes.
You do not need to go through the comment section of the CHinese edition of the same story to find out what Chinese readers think of this issue.
May 8, 2009 @ 1:29 am | Comment
52
By Meg
@ A Chinese: If you read the 5th paragraph in full, you will see
“China has been rounding up all travelers aboard an AeroMéxico flight that arrived Thursday in Shanghai from Mexico with a 25-year-old Mexican man, who is now ill with human swine flu in Hong Kong. He is the only known Mexican sufferer in China to date. However, Mexicans on other flights say they have been singled out for harsh treatment.”
After the 6th paragraph about the Mexican (Mr. Carrillo) flying from US, it continued in the 7th paragraph
“Mr. Carrillo said health officials took the temperatures of other passengers after the plane landed, but didn’t check his after they saw his Mexican passport. Instead, they led him down the aisle past gawking passengers. ‘It was embarrassing and humiliating,’ he said.”
I do not know how you define “singling out. But this sounds pretty much like it.
To be not singling him out, they should have either treated him as everybody as on the same flight, namely, taking his temperature, or quarantined everybody on the same flight.
As for what you said,
“Further more, isn’t also reasonably for the Chinese to assume this Mexican had indeed been to Mexico in the past 1 month, as there is really no way to tell this.”
You can easily check his passport (so as other passengers’ passports for their records) to verify this. There will be records on it.
Finally, paragraph 10 said
“According to accounts from Mexicans in the hotel, Mexican travelers arriving on various flights from Mexico and the U.S. were singled out by health officials who boarded the aircraft wearing white protective suits, masks and rubber gloves. They led away Mexican passport holders. Several travelers said Chinese television camera crews surprised them at the doors of their aircraft as they emerged. They said the filming continued through the windows of an isolation ward at the Beijing Ditan infectious diseases hospital.”
I also wonder if you were reading the same article as the rest of us were.
May 8, 2009 @ 4:48 am | Comment
53
By tom
Si,
The issue of China rounding up all Mexican indiscriminately really has to do with logistics. Think about it. In order to determine which Mexicans have been where for the last month, you need to do a lot of work. You have to get translators and then you have talk to the Mexicans which might increase the chance of spreading disease since they are suspects. You might have disputes over where they have been, he says she says, in English, in Spanish in God knows what language, and with travel documents most people won’t understand, in the end you may still not certain where they have been, on and on and on.
So China did it exactly right, just round all of them up, simple and effective. There aren’t many of them in the first place.
May 8, 2009 @ 7:54 am | Comment
54
By Meg
wow, i am speechless.
May 8, 2009 @ 8:06 am | Comment
55
By DB
It seems there’s some individual cases of being singled out, but were the majority of the Mexicans in quarantine singled out or not?
May 8, 2009 @ 10:17 am | Comment
56
By AndyR
tom you are completely insane, someone needs to put you in quarantine…
May 8, 2009 @ 1:39 pm | Comment
57
By A Chinese
Meg:
So, we know, Mr. Carrillo was ” led him down the aisle past gawking passengers” and you assume only the Mexican passport holders were treated like this
and as if “They led away Mexican passport holders” only
First, there is nothing wrong with leading away Mexican passport holders, as they are indeed at risk, there is no execuse about that
So, what about other passengers, we did not know if they were left there, let go, or else. Or is not simple because Mexican were seen as first priority. The thing is, when you see the word single out, you merely assume only Mexican were taken away, not everyone else. But let me ask you this, how can these Mexican passengers know they were the only group being taken away if they were the first being taken away? There is no way they could tell what happen to the others if they were not there!Nor can they tell what happen to the others if they cannot see it.
So what happen the other people in the similar circumstances?
Maybe this will give you some indications
“中国赴墨西哥包机今日下午抵沪 旅客将就地隔离”
“China’s plan to Mexico will arrive Shanghai this afternoon, all passengers are immediately quarantined”
“http://news.163.com/09/0506/13/58KRJSAJ000120GU.html”
I hope you do read Chinese, rather than only rely on English source
“卫生部表示，对于从墨西哥返回上海的旅客，将在上海就地进行隔离医学观察，其中没有发热症状的旅客，送往有封闭措施的宾馆开展医学观察；有发热症状的乘客将在定点医疗机构进行医学观察，如果在医学观察期间出现发热等症状，将送往定点医疗机构进行隔离治疗、采样和检测，并对与其有密切接触的旅客进行医学观察。”
May 8, 2009 @ 2:11 pm | Comment
58
By ecodelta
Just send him with the mexicans. 😉
May 8, 2009 @ 2:12 pm | Comment
59 Posted at cnreviews.com
[…] Mexican? Please come with us. […]
May 8, 2009 @ 2:44 pm | Pingback
60
By Si
This is my last post on the topic – I would just like to thank tom and A Chinese for helping me understand China better.
Clearly the rounding up of Mexicans indiscriminately will stop the spread of swine flu. We need not concern ourselves over anyone coming from infected countries, just the passport holders of said countries. This is clearly China’s well thought through plan of how to deal with a pandemic which they have had years to come up with. We can see the amazing efficiency of the socialist advantage coming into play.
Also what the CCP has said through the press is clearly accurate and the statements of the Mexicans are clearly lies. The CCP can always be relied to tell the absolute truth during times of emergency. If we haven’t heard any stories of other foreigners being quarantined, that’s because they are keeping a dignified silence.
Thanks to China’s 5000 years of history and culture the CCP leadership is handling this brilliantly and I sit here in awe.
May 8, 2009 @ 3:58 pm | Comment
61
By ecodelta
Send A Chinese too with the mexicans! 😉 😉
May 8, 2009 @ 7:26 pm | Comment
62
By A Chinese
To Si
ok, this is also my last post on this topic
And thank you for giving me the chance to understand English speaking world better.
But I am really amazed you still sincerely believe what China did was a nationality-based-round-up-of-discriminative-nature rather than infected-area-based-one. When it was clear that the ones being round up were all from infected countries, US, Mexico and Canda.
As for Chinese source of news, it’s good we share something here, you read WSJ, NYT, Washington Post etc, me too; but there is a difference that set us apart, that is, I also read an equal amount of Chinese source, even Korean ones to verify things.
It’s good that you cast doubts over what CCP said these days, but it will be better if you are capable of questioning what you read in English. Besides,it’s a common sense that trust has always been a mutual thing, the very moment you start questioning the Chinese practice, you should really expect to be questioned in turn.
This reminds me the comments on the same WSJ article’s Chinese version, which in general did not differ too much in their mood from mine. Richard is right about one thing though, there is a PR problem here, but it’s not just on the Chinese side, the same is true of Mexico and many Westerners’s image in CHinese eyes and I am pretty sure you do not need to go through WSJ’s comment section to find out what I mean.
Anyway, Richard’s post on 14th did catch my eyes, the frustration about communicating with Chinese. I have been on these kind of occasions like before and I do have some advice for Westerners from a Chinese prospective
1. It will be very very very helpful if you could argue things and make points in a Chinese way, or at least a way Chinese is familiar with. The best references of this is the bed time story for Chinese kids and Classics in middle school text books, like 触詟说赵太后，曹刿论战 or 论语（especially 颜渊篇 and 卫灵公 on this case)
2. Do not assume you are on the right side, many will not think so
3. Have some empathy, see what they see, feel what they feel……
4. Try not to turn the conversation into something like”China XXX”,”Chinese XXX” or “China did this XXX””China did that XXX), either intentionally or unintentionally. Because when you do that, you effectly turn the whole conversation into a China vs Rest one and will immediately draw upon a hostile response. It’s an honest mistake at best, dehumanization at worst
5. Follow point four, When making complain, be specific,ie not China XXX, but immigration authority or health officers XXX.
6. Appropriate the other side’s priorities, they are different from yours in many cases. It is unwise to push your priorty into theirs when theirs are the equally urgent ones
Finally, let me repeat my points
First
I am not here to argue FOR the “rounding up of Mexicans indiscriminately” or any indiscriminate round up, whatever the reasons. I also agree that indiscriminate round up people is wrong.
What I am arguing is that whether the round up can really be called “indiscriminate”, there are of course facts to support this, but also many other evidences that point to the opposite. It is important that we see both of them. As all the Mexican that claim to be indiscriminately round up were indeed came from infected area. They are not quarantined because they are Mexican, but because they came from a place that is infected
Second
I think all of us here feel deeply sorry for what Mexican, American and people in many other parts of the world are experiencing right now. Noboday like to be quarantined, but nor do we like to see an other victim of this disease
May 8, 2009 @ 9:27 pm | Comment
63
By Richard
Don’t insult the Chinese people. We don’t have to talk to them in a special way. And I have plenty of empathy with them. I understand why you are writing like this, but I still think it’s an unhealthy thing, to defend the irrational.
It all boils down to the fact that despite all the pretentious talk, you are still trying to justify irrationality. I understand this irrationality. I realize what’s behind it from an anthropological perspective. But it’s still unhealthy.
Noboday like to be quarantined, but nor do we like to see an other victim of this disease
There we have it. You are still arguing that this quarantine has something to do with protecting people from disease. It doesn’t. It was an act of panic that may have had the best of intentions but was nevertheless plain dumb. Rounding up people based on their nationality as opposed to travel history is absurd. Period. You can try to deny they are doing that, but that’s what they did.
I think we have now talked this one to death.
May 9, 2009 @ 9:41 am | Comment
64
By Writer from hell
‘Ok lets just lock up all them Mexicans’..absurd. Good post and nice discussion.
May 9, 2009 @ 11:43 am | Comment
65
By ecodelta
“I think we have now talked this one to death.”
At least not dead from the virus….
May 9, 2009 @ 4:00 pm | Comment
66
By FOARP (AKA 'A Briton')
Right, from now on I refuse to read any comments written by people with handles which are based solely on their nationality. Anyone called ‘a patriot’, ‘a Chinese’, ‘a Kiwi’, or ‘an American’ is in my opinion ‘an idiot’. Put it like that, how often do I see comments written by ‘a Chinese’? Are they all by the same guy? Don’t the people using this handle have anything else to identify themselves as? Or is being Chinese the end-all and be-all of who they are?
May 9, 2009 @ 5:14 pm | Comment
67
By tom
Richard,
I just saw in Danwei that you have joined Global Times 《环球时报》.
Congratulations!
Global Times has the most readership in China and is expanding very aggressively in foreign territory.
This is the best time to join the media industry in China.
May 10, 2009 @ 11:58 am | Comment
68
By Thang Long
I got an invitation to the upcoming meeting of the world, global elite, The Bilderberg Group, to discuss their plans for world domination and global enslavement.
The invitation says I should bring cole slaw.
May 11, 2009 @ 8:41 am | Comment
69
By Twisted_Colour
Damned laowai media!!
May 12, 2009 @ 1:39 pm | Comment
70
By brandon
@richard
Tom is a native English speaker. He lives down the hall in my dorm.
He fancies himself a 21st century “Maoist” which is why his comments seem so extreme.
I believe the word “sophomore” means “wise fool,” well, that’s Tom.
He’s harmless, don’t be too hard on him.
May 14, 2009 @ 5:31 pm | Comment
71
By Richard
Thanks for that Brandon, I was wondering. He would have been ideal material for the Red Guard.
May 15, 2009 @ 10:22 am | Comment
72 Posted at chinayouren.com
[…] last months, the H1N1 and the swine flu have been used as biological weapons of debate, often to prove the superiority of some political systems over others. The truth is that the […]
November 18, 2009 @ 1:37 pm | Pingback