I’m outraged at the vitriolic language and the talk of death threats but not truly surprised as the “patriotic” youth of today are pumped so full of govt nationalist propaganda that they cannot think straight….and I have personally met enough of them to know!

By the Way, throughout recent Chinese history, a red cross through someone’s face in a photograph meant they were either dead or purged or both. Yikes.

Does anyone else have a Little Red Book with the photos of Liu Shaoqi crossed out with red pen? I do.

June 11, 2005 @ 10:17 am | Comment

I think it would be really unfortunate if a Chinese Mainlander did take Chen out.

I’m really sitting on my hands on this one – I want to see more information come out. I don’t want to discount what Bing and Bingfeng have been saying about him, but my gut instinct tells me that it’s worthwhile waiting a bit to see what’s going on. I hope I’m not seen as “China-bashing” for doing this – I get confused whenever I’m accused of China bashing, because of opinions supporting dissidents or victims of the current government. I feel like I’m supporting people, and Chinese people at that. Much consternation.

June 11, 2005 @ 11:57 am | Comment

If Chen is who he says he is and he fears persecution for his political beliefs and OZ asylum laws are similar to US asylum laws, he should get asylum. OZ gov’t in any case, needs to protect Chen until that decsion is made.

The fine, righteous OZ Chinese Student Patriotic Association and its students are no doubt being directed by the CCP to make their protest.

It is amazing how stupid and obvious China’s leaders are. Being so two-faced about objecting to any other country “interferring in its internal affairs.” Here is a good example of China trying to subvert (interfer) the laws of OZ to deny Chen a fair decision by OZ immigraton officials. Just like China tries to bully Japan regarding its textbooks and honoring its war dead. While I don’t like Japan hiding the truth about its aggression and war dead issue, they are still internal issues for Japan
to deal with.

June 11, 2005 @ 1:11 pm | Comment

Considering this man is/was a government official and is commiting an act of high treason, I believe this would qualify as being an internal Chinese affair.

June 11, 2005 @ 2:23 pm | Comment

I put something up here before somewhere, but because Australia is involved, it is necessarily not internal anymore. To insist that it is is basically just another way of insisting that Australia to do what China wants. This is the same strong arm rhetorical tactics that I dislike about the U.S., and are to me are strangely similar to the attitudes that colonial powers insisted on having with China when they raped her over during the end of the Qing.

June 11, 2005 @ 3:04 pm | Comment

“The fine, righteous OZ Chinese Student Patriotic Association and its students are no doubt being directed by the CCP to make their protest.”

What is your basis to say this action is directed by CCP? You are essentially saying those students are CCP’s agent.
If you are in China and you side with US, can I say you are no doubt CIA agent? Well, that is CCP’s old logic. Please spend a few minutes to think about how ridiculous you are.

It is childish to appear alarmed about spy claim on either side. It sounds like “I am shocked! Shocked!” in Casablanca. For pete’s sake, nowadays, evenyone is spying on everyone. Even Iseral is spying on US. So, what is the big deal. You just do not know how many spies working for western countries.

June 11, 2005 @ 6:46 pm | Comment

I agree with your thoughts Laowai.

As for Jing, the only internal affair of China is that it picked the wrong spy to send to OZ. Chen made a decision to defect, that is a matter of him and his conscience. If he spied or violated laws in OZ that is not China’s internal affair and his seeking asylum is a matter of OZ law not Chinese law or feelings.

So if Chen committed an act of high treason against China, let it ask for extradition under applicable rules of law, which BTW it won’t get if Chen is granted asylum. In any case, China probably doesn’t have an extradition treaty with OZ.

I think what China will be learning as it engages with other countries, is that it not only lacks of a set of commonly believed and upheld fair principles to govern by, but to deal with other countries by. With the Chen situation the Powers have once again shown at crunch time that bullying is their OM, as so clearly shown by those missiles sitting across and targeted on Taiwan, which someone here, Bing or Bingfeng, noted are not there for show, and bashing Japan at every opportortunity. Now the world has this third incident of trying to force OZ to ignore its own laws for the sake of greed to kowtow to China”s phoney outrage, but real desire to get the guy back.

Even if I thought Taiwan should go back to China, which I don’t, I admire and have to congratulate the Taiwan Nation and its people for standing up against New China.

China will constantly be on the wrong foot in world affairs, until it understands and believes (deeply reforming itself, an exercise like changing from a nonbeliever of religion to a religious convert or perhaps more appropriately) in the benefits of opperating by principles and the rule of law.

My concern is that China will never adopt principles and law over the ends justify the means thinking as the standard of good governance and good relations. Just think if America or Europe ever succumbs to the Chinese way of thinking and acting. Not very uplifting to contemplate.

June 11, 2005 @ 7:51 pm | Comment

Steve
If you read some of my other comments you will read about some of my
experiences that form my beliefs about China’s “spy” networks.

As I have been in China a few years I have been monitored and followed by Chinese agents. I have nothing to do with spying even for my country, America, but at one time I was convinced that my Chinese minders thought I was a spy. I tell you for you knowledge, I was a teacher in China and now am a retired businessman/lawyer traveling in China for the time being. And no you can’t say I am a CIA agent.

June 11, 2005 @ 8:03 pm | Comment

“Australian Chinese Students Patriotic Association”

Hmm… Sounds like a cover name for nationalist minders if you ask me.

June 11, 2005 @ 9:17 pm | Comment

Pete

I agree with you that, it is foolish for China to demand Chen to be sent back. It is simply unthinkable that OZ will do that. Therefore, there is no benefit to make a big fuss about this defector.

Hu is not stupid. I see no reason that CCP is agitating Chinese to push OZ government. That is why I think your accusation is baseless.

Since you have suffered being suspected as spy, your accusation actually justified the past unfair treatment of CCP on you.

I am not trying to pick on your single sentence. I raise this issue because I think your sentence reflects the general logic prevailing in many people’s mind, either consciously or unconsciously.

June 11, 2005 @ 9:50 pm | Comment

Am I the only Australian here? I live in Sydney.

Firstly, I’m appalled at the comments of this so-called “Patriotic Students Association” or whatever. These people have no shame.

Secondly, there is NO strong-arming tactics by the Chinese government to take Chen Yonglin by force. This guy is a rather low-level diplomat and as far as the newspapers say, granting him political asylum isn’t going to have any effect on the current Sino-Australian relationship (which is pretty good).

Thirdly, both the Chinese and Australian governments are embaressed, but the Australian public isn’t much interested. Australians rate US foreign policy as dangerous as Islamic fundamentalism, so they actually think the US is more dangerous than China. Most Australians look at China and see trade opportunities.
They don’t believe the claim that there are 1000 spies in Australia either, and even if there are, who cares? What could they possibly be spying on over HERE? I have yet to talk to anyone who is remotely alarmed about this.

Fourthly, 2 more Chinese “spies” seeking asylum have emerged in the space of one week after this diplomat’s defection. It’s turned into the joke of the month.

Lastly, the Howard government has a reputation for dumping refugees, including children and babies, in detention centres (aka concentration camps) for as long as they want. Australia’s refugee policy (and indigenous people policy) is world famous for violating human rights. Cheng Yonglin should be grateful he isn’t sitting behind a barbed wire fence right now. Perhaps the CCP’s oppressiveness crosses some Australian minds when thinking about this diplomat’s case, but hey, look at our own country first.

June 12, 2005 @ 7:05 am | Comment

Steve
It has been my observation that nothing political happens regarding China or the Han/Hua unless it is promoted, condone or acquisted in by the Party/gov’t. Show me I am wrong and then we can talk more.

“Since you have suffered…”
Well old buddy that statement is a flight of pure fantasy. I have acted as a law abidding guest in China, working for China’s education system in the past. Tell me how what I say with my right of freedom of speech under the Chinese Constitution today or yesterday, justifies spying on me by Chinese goons, no that’s not right, by Chinese ladies and cadres 5-6 years ago. IMO your thinking process is slightly askew or you are just repeating what the Party has instructed you to write.

Don’t worry about picking on my writing, that’s why it is here to stimulate dialogue.

June 12, 2005 @ 7:10 am | Comment

Pete,

Without any shred of evidence, you are accusing some chinese as CCP’s agent, simply because they happen to side with CCP. By your logic, you could be suspected to be CIA agent if you ever say anything against China.

I understand the past treatment was unfair on you. It is even more tragic that you are using the same logic now.

“you are just repeating what the Party has instructed you to write.
”

Pete, are you essentially saying that I am the agent for CCP? You think a CCP’s agent will spend time writing a message advocating to keep China in OZ and fight for the spy charges on Chinese students?

If I were CCP, I would love to have more agents like you to throw spy charges on Chinese students. Your charges will convert them to CCP sympathizer. Do you know the missile expert from MIT, Qian Xuesen, initially wanted to stay in US, then was accused as CCP’s sympathizer, then actually wanted to go back to China?

June 12, 2005 @ 7:55 am | Comment

pete at 07:55AM

When did you change your handle as I presume you are steve? You are going to confuse a lot of readers.

“Without any shred of evidence…” Show me why I should not think that way. You have not accepted my challenge, so until you do this subject is finished for you.

There are many reasons for me to think you are a plant, using this blog for the Nanny.

June 12, 2005 @ 8:22 am | Comment

“Show me why I should not think that way. .. There are many reasons for me to think you are a plant, using this blog for the Nanny. ”

Pete,

Your logic is simply wrong. It should be you who should back up your claim.

Your last claim just makes me chuckling. You are really smart and have a quick mind. Also, You are really vigilant against enemy. It is a pity that you missed those good old days with McCarthy.

June 12, 2005 @ 9:30 am | Comment

ironmouse: just in case no one else seconds you, i do. i am chinese bug ex-oz and this whole discussion is out-of-the-world and out-of-reality.

June 12, 2005 @ 11:55 am | Comment

I got a long rambling reply from one of these guys in response to a commnet I posted. It’s a bit incoherent, but then if I wrote an angry post in Chinese, well….

June 12, 2005 @ 7:05 pm | Comment

Ironmouse … you need to go and study Australian law. There is no reason for gratitude that he is not behind bars. Australian law clearly states that a person applying for a protection visa in his position will not be subject to mandatory detention. So many people (mostly Australian people) keep condemning Australian government policy re asylum seekers, but are in fact quite ignorant over what the policies actually are.

As for that “patriotic assocation” … they’re just a local mouthpiece of government rhetoric. They’re quoted in China Daily supporting Taiwan annexation as well … so that they can present Chinese policy as being supported around the world.

June 12, 2005 @ 7:12 pm | Comment

SERIOUS THREATS OR JUST FALSE BRAVADO?

One of the main consequential issues which is now being debated in the mainstream media and on the internet is the way the Chinese government treats people it thinks may disagree with it – not just in China, but in other countries too.

June 12, 2005 @ 9:54 pm | Comment

Daily linklets 13th June

* Who is behind the Ching Cheong incident? * ESWN looks at the joint China-Korea-Japan history textbook. Who said you can’t write books by committee? Danwei also has a detailed look at the background and contents of the book. * Cigarettes are good for …

June 12, 2005 @ 10:31 pm | Comment

Ironmouse, thanks for that Australian insight. That’s much appreciated.

June 13, 2005 @ 4:38 am | Comment

For those of you who say that Chen Yonglin has commited treason: You need to get some perspective. Your government regularly kills and persecutes your own citizens for things against the CCP. The CCP is not China, the people are China. Would you rather your country’s money to be spent on health and education, or on CCP members families and friends? Would you rather your money spent on public services or sending spies to other countries? The nature of the CCP is to ensure the survival of the CCP not the survival of individual Chinese or Chinese culture.

You say Chen Yonglin has committed a crime. In fact, your own government has committed more Crimes then the Japanese in WW2. Yes, that’s correct. Your government has killed more Chinese and Tibetans than the Japanese have.

You can shun this off, and attack me whatever, I dont care, its not my country. If you want your country to ultimately go downhill, then you do these things. China WILL have a civil war, there WILL be a large uprising, the only variable is the time when it happens and which side YOU are on – the CCP or the people.

Australia has a right to keep Chen Yonglin, and investigate the allegations of CRIMES AGAINST AUSTRALIA and if the CCP is guilty of sending spies to Australia, then your president should be put to death. Unfortunatly due to Australia’s reliance on cheap chinese labour and a massive Chinese market, our prime minister is a pussy with no balls to do anything in Australia’s best interests.

June 14, 2005 @ 7:05 pm | Comment

“Considering this man is/was a government official and is commiting an act of high treason, I believe this would qualify as being an internal Chinese affair.”

Your ‘belief’ is flawed. This has occoured in Australia. He has made allegations against the Chinese government and is seeking Asylem in AUSTRALIA. It is AUSTRALIA’s decision and AUSTRALIA’s DUTY to protect him until the truth can be found.

June 14, 2005 @ 7:10 pm | Comment

Why should Australia protect someone considered a traitor by his home country?Like many other asylum seekers in Australia,Chen prefers to stay in a westen country so his children can get better education,how obvious?you guys were born and grew up in developed countries and have no idea how a man from a country like China loves to reside in a country like Australia AT ANY COST.Besides,dont juz look at one side of the story and when everytime such a thing happens,you guys cant wait but jump out.
Be wise!!

June 19, 2005 @ 1:21 pm | Comment

HKU, the guy had a great life, stationed in Australia, all the money he wanted. He wouldn’t risk being sent back to China as a criminal just to continue that life, when all he had to do was sit back and keep on doing what he was doing before. No, something else motivated him. He had the best of both worlds, now he’s in a rathole hiding out.

June 19, 2005 @ 3:58 pm | Comment

I have read all the blogs up to current, and though it’s my first time here I feel compelled to share my perspective on a few matters. First of all, I quite agree with pete; not only do I notice steve never answers pete’s charge of changing his (steve’s) handle to look like he is pete and confuse the issue when Pete is so obviously winning the argument, but Gaz_hayes is entirely correct. The totalitarian Chinese regime has put to death and persecuted thousands of Christians and other political prisoner’s in China than Japan ever has, nay, even than probably any foreign power has, and the hyper-nationalism we are seeing coming out of China is truly frightening and can only lead to war, (as history shows us). Whether or not Steve is actually a plant by the Communist party or not is irrelevant, though I tend to agree with Pete that his conduct is quite suspicious, but the premise at issue is undeniable. It is a FACT that regime’s like the CCP regularly use any and all means, (yes, including public blogs like this one) to sway public opinion in foreign countries and to further their cause, (ever read the “Art of war?” or WWII history for that matter). Propaganda to win the hearts and minds of the masses in both their own and host countries is a HUGE part of all totalitarian regimes, for without it their popular support and eventually the power to control their citizens (and ultimately project power in other spheres) is reduced and ultimately threatens their very existence as it does indeed lead to civil war, (and hopefully, a new order for the Chinese people). It is truly unthinkable and thorougly pathetic that ANY sovereign nation, (especially one with such a rich tradition and heritage for human rights as Australia), would ever allow “political” or trade considerations with an avowed dictatorial regime like the Chinese government to dictate how they apply and enforce their own asylum laws, (at first blush the case here). Let’s hope the public controversy can continue to uphold the new-found seeming willingness on the part of the Aussie gov. to grant Chen asylum and that the world doesn’t become just one colonial supplier after another of ‘raw goods’ for China’s explosive growth, (as an American I have seen it already happening here, first the death of domestic manufacturing along with the associated loss of jobs and standard of living, accompanied by an excessive dependence on cheap imports and then finally dependence to uphold our entire monetary system as China graciously “invests” in our treasury bills and notes. Question, if the aussie gov. is this wishy washy now what happens when your citizenry is completely beholden to China for basic manufactured goods and staples of life, including commodities such as steel and food, as is happening in America? Do you think America, or the land of Oz for that matter, will be able to in any sense of the word ‘stand up’ to China if that becomes necessary? It is only a matter of time till Taiwan, and perhaps Japan as well, is invaded and we will have no other choice but to sit on our hands as we will have lost the only means available to enable our democratic friends to resist, a strong and independent economy and millitary. One look at the way China treats its own dissidents and practitioners of religion and I shudder to consider the consequences. I have gone on far too long but I must say one final thing. America can in NO WAY be compared to dictatorial regimes. While we certainly have struggled to live up to our democratic and freedom loving ideals, (especially in this time of ever-expanding government due to the ‘war on terror,’), America has ALWAYS stood for Democracy and NEVER attacked any other peaceful democratic country, (indeed, we have been reluctant to enter wars until forced such as in WWII). We don’t jail people for having different opinions or religions, (even strange ones), and no one is dragged off or forced to attend “re-education” when we “transgress” in the eyes of the state. However, we haven’t seemed to learn the basic foundation of our freedom is NOT capitalism, but a firm belief in God, (as each individual perceives Him), for if a GOVERNMENT can give you your freedoms than it also has the right to take them away, (not so God). This was the foundation of the largely bloodless American revolution and the legal underpinning to the checks and balances placed in our Constitution. Sadly, we will lose those freedoms to countries that are more efficient economically if we forget there are more important things than the “bottom line” of multi-national corporations who have no loyalty to any ideas higher than themselves and no allegiance to anything other than the dollar. I pray when our collapse comes it will not be accompanied by the point of thousands of Chinese AK’s, but as China rapidly builds a navy and the capability to project force around the globe, aided and uninhibited by governments and policies which seem to have forgotten their histories, that scenario is a very likely possibility. May God grant the good people of Australia and other free nations around the world understanding before it is too late.

June 23, 2005 @ 1:39 pm | Comment

k

June 23, 2005 @ 2:00 pm | Comment

No favours from would-be defector – Piers Akerman
June 12, 2005

WANNABE Chinese defector Chen Yonglin is no Vladimir Petrov, despite claims to that status from the Chinese diplomat’s Australian supporters.

Nor are there any real parallels between the former Soviet Union of Stalin and the China of today as the Chen camp would have us believe.

Petrov was a genuine insider. He had worked deep inside the secret apparatus at the heart of the Soviet monster and knew who pulled the levers and how things operated.

When he was wooed into defecting, the seduction process was long and dangerous and he brought with him genuinely valuable information.

At the time of Petrov, Australia and the rest of the Western world was in a state of militant confrontation with the Soviet Union. We, and the rest of the west, were eagerly seeking out defectors and encouraging them to jump the fence, as the Soviet, with a lot less success, was attempting to do from its side of the Iron Curtain.

Though there was no shortage of ideologically driven supporters, including historian Manning Clark, few actually wanted to live in and experience the constant joy of the workers’ paradise. Funny, that.

By contrast, today we have the most amiable relations with Beijing. None but the truly looney can argue that it is not in Australia’s best interests to have the warmest relations with China.

Chen has nothing but extremely unreliable claims of Chinese espionage, because he acknowledges that he was not right up in the spy business.

At most, his connection with intelligence gathering lay in recording the identities and activities of members of the Falun Gong who demonstrated outside the Chinese consulate.

The Falun Gong, who believe that humans were brought to earth from outer space, are also not exactly what they might seem to be – touchy-feely people who look for enlightenment through exercise and meditation.

They are opposed to the Chinese Government and their ability to present some 10,000-15,000 demonstrators outside China’s leadership compound in April, 1999, certainly put the wind up the incumbent Chinese chiefs.

Chen and his claque of supporters seem to believe that the Australian Government should ignore the political and economic ties that will deliver an estimated $60 billion-plus in the next decade or so and fete this latest refugee.

Already, Chen’s child, the ultimate weapon in the armoury, has achieved a certain celebrity as her primary school classmates rush the media with tales of their love for their little mate.

But while Australia’s foreign policy and approach to human rights are not decided by trade deals, it is also not in our interest to go out of our way to promote those who want to embarrass significant trading partners.

Chen has done his cause little good by embracing the politics of Senator Bob Brown and the Greens. Indeed, his embrace of such fringe-dwellers counts for several strikes against what may otherwise be a reasonable claim for political asylum.

It is no accident that he emerged on the anniversary of the Tiananmen tragedy to make his point. Then there is the support the Greens have shown Falun Gong in the past, aided and abetted by the Labor Party, which sniffed the wind and tried to find a way to embarrass the Government, coming down on the side of trying to accommodate Chen’s desires. The ALP seems to have learnt nothing from its disastrous alliance with the Greens during the past election.

There is every reason for Australia to be on the side of the angels when it comes to human rights and ensuring that people are safe but nothing that has been said since Chen asked for political asylum beyond the wild mouthings of Bob Brown and Co lends weight to his assertions about what may happen were he to return to China.

He has made himself his own worst enemy by appearing to be a stooge of the Greens in their campaign against the Government and its immigration policies, rather than a genuine defector seeking refuge in the bosom of Australia.

Surely no one seriously concerned about the safety of his own family would have appeared at an anti-Chinese rally?

If you have serious apprehensions about your safety you go to the security authorities and talk to them about your needs.

The stunning pace of China’s development, currently the engine room of the global economy, and our relationship must not take second place to human rights but can anyone seriously argue that we sacrifice those sort of ties for Chen on the say-so of the Greens?

If he can’t leave, and he has pretty well ensured that he has burnt his bridges behind him, he should stop echoing the views of his Green mates, settle down and stop causing embarrassment.

July 2, 2005 @ 12:41 am | Comment

u eat curry

July 25, 2005 @ 8:30 pm | Comment

jo Yu loves nick 🙂 hhhahahahaha

July 25, 2005 @ 8:31 pm | Comment

http://www.prtcn.org
re-opened

August 14, 2005 @ 1:16 pm | Comment