Now this is an unsual article, from the conservative Washington Times’ sister magazine.
The overwhelming assessment by Asian officials, diplomats and analysts is that the U.S. military simply cannot defeat China. It has been an assessment relayed to U.S. government officials over the past few months by countries such as Australia, Japan and South Korea. This comes as President Bush wraps up a visit to Asia, in which he sought to strengthen U.S. ties with key allies in the region.
Most Asian officials have expressed their views privately. Tokyo Governor Shintaro Ishihara has gone public, warning that the United States would lose any war with China.
“In any case, if tension between the United States and China heightens, if each side pulls the trigger, though it may not be stretched to nuclear weapons, and the wider hostilities expand, I believe America cannot win as it has a civic society that must adhere to the value of respecting lives,” Mr. Ishihara said in an address to the Washington-based Center for Strategic and International Studies.
Mr. Ishihara said U.S. ground forces, with the exception of the Marines, are “extremely incompetent” and would be unable to stem a Chinese conventional attack. Indeed, he asserted that China would not hesitate to use nuclear weapons against Asian and American cities—even at the risk of a massive U.S. retaliation.
The governor said the U.S. military could not counter a wave of millions of Chinese soldiers prepared to die in any onslaught against U.S. forces. After 2,000 casualties, he said, the U.S. military would be forced to withdraw.
“Therefore, we need to consider other means to counter China,” he said. “The step we should be taking against China, I believe, is economic containment.”
My first guess is that this is a “scare article” intended to shake us up into thinking that if we leave Iraq, it proves to our allies and enemies alike that we are incompetent cowards afraid of incurring any casualties. Of course, that’s not true, and my gut instinct is to see this entire piece as BS. There would be no talk of pulling out of Iraq if the majority of Americans believed we have a clear mission with attainable goals, and that those 2,000+ Americans died for something worthwhile. Americans aren’t cowards who run away; they just want to know what they’re dying for. In the face of a true threat, like Al Qaeda, the nation rallies and fights.
I may be totally wrong about this, and the article may be spot-on. The governor may be a qualified spokesman for other Asian countries. Still, I find it on the bizarre side. In a conventional war, America would be pretty hard to beat, even though being bogged down in Iraq doesn’t help us any.
1
By Gordon
Well Richard, let me tell you something and I’m sure Conrad will chime in with his experienced view, but there’s no way in hell the Chinese would ever kick our asses.
Any war with the Chinese would strictly be a Naval/air war with the exception of special forces commandos.
The Chinese are litteraly decades behind us as far as military technology is concerned and for another thing, they still have no force projection.
When I was in the military, we used to refer to the invasion of Taiwan as the “billion man swim”.
If it comes to nukes, sure the Chinese will inflict damage on the US, but that won’t really matter because all China will have is “5,000” years of history. No more.
The United States still maintains a nuclear stockpile of 12,000 warheads. Do the math.
November 23, 2005 @ 8:42 pm | Comment
2
By richard
Gordon, I am in complete agreement with you on this one. That’s why i found this article so bizarre. It actually seems pretty obvious to me, and I have to wonder where this article is coming from.
November 23, 2005 @ 8:46 pm | Comment
3
By liuzhou laowai
“there’s no way in hell the Chinese would ever kick our asses.”
The article doesn’t say that they would, but that the US could not defeat China. It is not the same thing.
November 23, 2005 @ 8:54 pm | Comment
4
By Jerome
I am with Gordon on this. Ishihara must be thinking in the past where the Japanese failed to take over China because the Chinese could keep retreating and occupying a hostile land with stretched supply lines is not the way to go.
Be it like Napoleon or Hitler on Russia, the days of conventional land war are over. I’ve written on this before; you don’t even have to face the million Chinese soldiers, just knock out all the industry. In the “old days” the industry could move further and further back. Not so anymore.
Other questions, the million Chinese soldiers didn’t quite take Viet Nam; and how does he interpret “economic containment” with Japanese companies rushing like everyone else to invest in China?
November 23, 2005 @ 8:55 pm | Comment
5
By James
Yeah, this is bollocks. Firstly, China doesn’t have the kind of power projection capabilities that the US does, and is years behind in most fields. Secondly, the American attitude to casualties, historically, changes greatly in any kind of major war – especially if the other side attacks. Thirdly, the Chinese army is … well, it doesn’t have a workable officer corp (because 90% of the officers are businessmen), it doesn’t have particularly good morale or training, and it hasn’t fought a war since the invasion of Vietnam.
Also, ‘the US army is incompetent.’ Please. It has bad moments, but the *invasion* of Iraq (rather than the occupation) was quite terrifyingly well-executed.
And, thank god, the Chinese military and government has advanced beyond Mao’s conception of a winnable nuclear war (because China has more people!)
God knows the motivation for this nonsense, though, but isn’t the Washington Times owned by the Moonies? I’d bet that has something to do with it.
November 23, 2005 @ 8:59 pm | Comment
6
By Yusuke Suzuki
Ishihara’s views over China certainly reveals where he is coming from. Ishihara is known for his racist remarks concerning towards Chinese immigrants in Japan, and his conservative and time fallacious views concerning history (he’s a Nanjing denier). He also says that the Mitsubishi FSX can defeat your F15s and F16s in any duel…
anyways- I dunno why some of you are championing this idiot of a politician.
November 23, 2005 @ 10:38 pm | Comment
7
By richard
Yusuke, is anyone here at all “championing” him? I say in my post that it’s BS and “bizarre,” and all the other commenters agree. Unfortunately, it’s being put out there in a major newspaper, and the reporter isn’t challenging it! That’s what we’re here for.
November 23, 2005 @ 10:44 pm | Comment
8
By David Mercer
HA! The current US military is a bloodied, attrition honed force that is the most formidible military machine in the history of the planet!
HA!
Ave Imperitor!
November 23, 2005 @ 10:57 pm | Comment
9
By JD
Yeah, the US would have to want to invade the mainland before any PLA member would even see an American soldier.
China: “We’re declaring war on you!”
US: “Well, we’ll be over here. Pop over whenever.”
Rather a peculiar thing to publish, all things considered.
November 23, 2005 @ 11:36 pm | Comment
10
By denk
good man, yusuke suzuki,
china would never go to war with the us cuz its suicidal, — except when its attacked by the usa or uncle sham intervene in the taiwan straits,
now b4 someone tell me uncle sham s protecting taiwan’s democracy take a look at this,
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?rc20051120a5.htm
http://counterpunch.org/cloughley11092004.html
and this
http://www.antiwar.com/orig/pilger.php?articleid=3702
defending democracy eh?
when taiwan independent hochos visit the usa, all weapon manufacturers from ge to general dynamics, lockheed martin etc come out in force and fete the taiwanese like king, so they are there to uhhold democracy,? gimme a break.
denk
November 24, 2005 @ 12:06 am | Comment
11
By brendon
“Also, ‘the US army is incompetent.’ Please. It has bad moments, but the *invasion* of Iraq (rather than the occupation) was quite terrifyingly well-executed.”
*lol* indeed. on the other hand, if no one is trying to stop you from invading (where were those HUGE iraq forces?), anyone can have it “terrifyingly well-executed”.
as usual, only my 2 cents…
November 24, 2005 @ 2:01 am | Comment
12
By ACB
I can instantly tell who’s American here. No offense, but you’ve all got your head stuck up your backsides.
You clearely haven’t been paying. attention Ishihara isn’t saying that China could beat America in a war, Ishihara is saying that America couldn’t beat China on its home turf unless it fought dirty.
Am I the only person here who knows US Pacific capabilities?
America’s entire China strategy in the Pacific is based on the repulsion of attacking Chinese forces attacking teritory friendly to the US NOT the US attacking teritory friendly to China.
There is absolutely NO WAY that the US has sufficient manpower, fire power, or will power to take the war to China without nuking pretty much every key Chinese city on the east coast. THIS is what Ishihara is saying.
No matter how advanced US technology is, this matters squat when you are taking things at close quarters in an enemy city. The Best that the US could hope for in China was to beat the Chinese out of Taiwan or to fend off a Chinese attack against Japan or Korea. There is NO WAY that the US could even begin to beating the PLA on Chinese soil.
Ishihara isn’t warning you about the Chinese comming to you, Ishihara is warning you that you couldn’t go to them.
The most that the US would be able do would be to blind Chinese radar and destroy Chinese missiles on te east coast, if you think that America could actually occupy a Chinese city, you are living in a dream world.
America can’t placify a bunch of starving Iraqi who are fighting amongst themselves as much as they are fighting the US, and China is a much bigger place and the PLA is specifically trained to fight a gurilla war against a technologically superior enemy.
Oh, and Ishihara is right about US soldiers, aside from the marines, US ground forces are cowboys. They are ill disiplined, trained only for a limited number of tasks involving mased firepower, and even in a small war like Iraq are chronically ill equipped in terms of armor, amunition and advanced tactics. They couldn’t take a Chinese city, let alone take one.
If it weren’t for the marines, all America could have done against Iraqq would have been to bomb it from a distance like they did during shock an awe.
Frankly, I am rather disturbed that you are talking like you are, I’d have expected this from Conrad, but I expected better from you. You’ve jumping on the “Them and Us” bandwagon and loosing perpective.
You are also forgetting that while the US might not be in danger from Chinese nukes, Japan, Korea and Taiwan are right in the firing line.
Not one of you has spared a thought for your so called allies. As usualy, it looks very much like a bunch of Americans are all set to start a war a million miles from their your own backyard, without even the slightest bit of concern for us poor locals.
Personally, I’d rather not see my friends and family die from a Chinese missile hit because some American in Washington was certain that none of them would reach his neighborhood.
Maybe you would be more cautious in your war mongering if China were your neighbor.
November 24, 2005 @ 2:50 am | Comment
13
By ACB
China = Vietnam * 10
US tactics have never been effective against gurillas.
November 24, 2005 @ 2:53 am | Comment
14
By vaara
Anyway, the U.S. could never nuke China, because where else would we get our crucial supplies of U.S. flags from?
November 24, 2005 @ 3:01 am | Comment
15
By Conrad
The article is absurd. Please note that the only “Asian offical” identified or quoted is Shintaro Ishihara.
And who is Shintaro Ishihara?
+ A noted bigot and xenophobe and former leader of a cult-like organization.
+ A rabid Japanese nationalist and anti-American.
+ Author of the book , The Japan That Can Say No, co-authored which urged Japan to “stand up to” the United States.
+ Co-authored a book with noted anti-semite Mahathir bin Mohamad (former PM of Malaysia), The Voice of Asia: Two Leaders Discuss the Coming Century which called for the promotion of‘Asian values and resistance to the the “bullying, decadent West”.
+ Has called for the immediate removal of all US military bases from Japan.
+ Has called for Japan to develop and deploy nuclear weapons, double the size of its military and scrap its “Peace Constitution.”
+ Has referred to Chinese and Koreans resident in Japan by the derogatory term “sangokujin“.
+ Declared in a 1995 interview that the Nanjing Massacre “never happened” and was a “Chinese creation.”
+ Instructed the Tokyo Metropolitan Police Department that in the event of a major natural disaster to “keep its eyes on foreigners” who “might “do something out of hand.”
+ Also said: “with Sankokujin [see above] and foreigners committing serious crimes, we should prepare ourselves for possible riots that may be instigated by them at the outbreak of an earthquake.”
+ Said in a published interview that older women without reproductive functions are useless.
That any journalist would write or any newspaper publish such a patently absurd article, based entirely upon the word of a known extremist crackpot, is unbelievable.
I know the Washington Times is shit, but come on. . . .
November 24, 2005 @ 3:17 am | Comment
16
By Conrad
ACB:
There’s no sense in debating whith you. Your anti-American views are well known. But anyone who thinks that US forces are “ill disiplined, trained only for a limited number of tasks involving mased firepower, and even in a small war like Iraq are chronically ill equipped in terms of armor, amunition and advanced tactics” is either blinded by bias or completely ignorant of the facts.
The current US militray is from top to bottom the best equipped, cost capable, most versatile and best trained military force in the history of the world.
If you think US armored divisons, Rangers, the 82nd and 101st Airborne, Air Cav and Armored Cav forces, not to mention the Green Berets, Delta Force, SEALS, PLUS the US Navy and US Airforce are incompetent, you don’t know what you are talking about.
November 24, 2005 @ 3:28 am | Comment
17
By Adam P
My dad could kick your dad’s ass
November 24, 2005 @ 3:34 am | Comment
18
By Liuzhou Laowai
ACB, it’ s not often I agree with you, but this time you are spot on!
I was beginning to wonder if anyone had actually read the article. Maybe it’s just easier to argue against things which it never said!
November 24, 2005 @ 3:40 am | Comment
19
By MeiZhongTai
ACB,
The US warplans in the Pacific call for us to defend Taiwan, not invade China because we have no reason to invade China not because we can’t do it. (Whether we can or not is an irrelevant point because we don’t want to.) In a war, our goal would be to maintain the status quo (preserve Taiwanese de facto independence), not to conquer some Chinese city.
You are right that this is a silly argument, but for the wrong reasons.
November 24, 2005 @ 9:25 am | Comment
20
By Thomas
Well, the problem with what this article assumes is that the US has no interest in invading China, or in fighting a war IN China. The article takes the current political situation and makes a huge assumption that any war would ever be taken to Chinese home soil in the first place. OF COURSE the US would not win. Why? Because they have never had a serious strategy and desire to attack China IN China. This means US resources have never been directed to that end. So there is no real base for an attack. If the US had harbored some secret desire for conquest of the Chinese Communist Empire, and had been building up their armies and supply lines and bases in the region for decades rather than cutting back, I am quite sure that with the two armies at their current level of readiness, the US would whip the pants off of the Chinese. Note: I’m talking about a conventional war, not any guerilla aftermath. But this is not the case of events. So no, the US would not win IN China because they have never really had a desire to.
This is also the reason for the responses of the Americans in here. To an American, the idea of invading China with the purpose of conquest is outlandish. So they see it in the framework of an air or naval war over Taiwan….a scenario that everyone knows the US has plans for. And in this case, at least for the next 15 years (or until the pan blue legislature with their boycotts of arms purchases allow the Chinese to win any war in 1 day instead of hold them off for a few weeks), the US would almost certainly win.
In light of all of this, Shintaro Ishihara’s words are ridiculous. He might as well come out and say, things being what they are in our day, “Canada would have it’s pants whipped in a unilateral war against the Netherlandsl.” (Although I think a war over a few polders might be amusing to watch.)
November 24, 2005 @ 9:36 am | Comment
21
By Liuzhou Laowai
“makes a huge assumption that any war would ever be taken to Chinese home soil in the first place”
Not so huge. America has made a very careful point of never fighting a war on its own soil (apart from when they fought each other!).
Happy thanksgiving!
November 24, 2005 @ 10:12 am | Comment
22
By Thuin
Y’know, the issue of the US Army’s competence is pretty moot until they make a bridge over the Pacific Ocean (in case of a Chinese invasion) or every US Soldier becomes the Bride, able to kill dozens of equally armed enemies (in case of an American invasion).
The elephant and the whale, bar nukes (where the US has a huge advantage) aren’t going to war anytime soon. But if they wanted, they’d have to become pretty innovative before they got able to do anything.
November 24, 2005 @ 4:41 pm | Comment
23
By Thuin
Incidentally, am I the only one who thinks that, more interesting than discussing the absurd premise, would be talking about why it got written in the first place, and reproduced in the WTimes? Because I rather think they’ve got similar reasons for spewing the same bullshit, despite opposite allegiances.
November 24, 2005 @ 5:01 pm | Comment
24
By Jeffery
As we know, Mr. Ishihara is a right-wing politician. he’s so hostile to china and Korea that he denies any invasions and massacres made by Japan in the past years. his intention of this remark is very clear that he would like incite US against China. if these two great countries are in conflict, then who will benefit from their conflict? the answer is very obvious–Japan.
I think most chinese do not like go to war with US. actually many of them hold a friendly feeling toward US because US is a source and guardian of democracy. Mr. Ishihara should note that US and Chinese are not enemies against each other but friends to each other. I am optimistic that these two great people will have bright future and relationship if china go to democracy and freedom. one of the greatest mission for US is to help chinese to gain the freedom and full democracy. i will be the first person to oppose any war between china and US.
November 24, 2005 @ 6:21 pm | Comment
25
By ckrisz
Let me join all the sensible commentors in noting that this article is hilariously stupid. Wake us all when (1) the U.S. seriously contemplates invading and conquering the Chinese mainland (2) Shintaro Ishihara becomes anything more than an ignorant fool.
November 24, 2005 @ 7:16 pm | Comment
26
By denk
if ishihara is such a fool, it begs the question, why is he so popular in japan? actually not all his rants are craps, for example japan should listen to him and say no to the us, being a us pitbull would make japan a pariah in asia.
http://www.japan-press.co.jp/2356/oct23.html
hello meizhontai,
what do u mean “we only want to protect taiwan’s independence, we dont want to invade u “?
protecting taiwan’s indenpendence eh,
firstly the chen sui bien clique dont even represent the majority of taiwanese, who even though not keen to return to the “motherland”, have no wish to seek independence either. mind u , the mainland was content to leave it that way and it has been like so for many decades, the taiwan “crisis” arouse only when uncle sham put his grubby hand in the taiwan straits
http://www.japantimes.co.jp/cgi-bin/getarticle.pl5?eo20010521gc.htm
so spare the world this protection racket of yours, just buzz off and there will be no taiwan crisis , like it used to be.
secondly, in countries with friendly regimes, like indonesia, india, turkey , columbia, uzerbajan, philipines, etc. you protect the armed to the teeth governments against the rebels.
in countries with non compliant government like china, u protect the rebels against the government.
whats so special about the minority taiwanese separatists right to independce, arent the kashmiris, nagas, assamese, achenese, etc human too, what happen to their rights to independence?
who give u the mandate to play god, to label who are terrorists to be terminated, who are freedom fighters to be protected?
“why do they hate us”?
the world dont hate uncle sham for his wonderful way of life (sic) , but for his insatiable urge to play god and poke his nose in others bussiness in the name of defending democracy.
November 24, 2005 @ 8:32 pm | Comment
27
By ming
A regional war in Asia might be likely after 2050 between the USA/Japan and China as the 2 sides fights over resources in the E. China Sea. A nuclear war is unlikely to happen but then by 2050 its likely that China might have built up its nuke arsenal and weapon systems to match the USA and EU combined.
The determination of the Chinese race will make sure that China will never be carved up or humiliated again as it was over the past centuries.
Economic war against china would only hurt the Japanese economy lets face it the Chinese pulled the Japanese out of a decade long recession! No one benefits from an economic war with China.
Containing China will happen but the result will not be known for a long time. The net for containing China has already been prepared by the USA. Beware though the Chinese might survive the containment and comes out stronger and angrier! If China survived the Cold War and reached the current status, it is likely that China will survived the next cold war against it.
November 24, 2005 @ 9:01 pm | Comment
28
By Jeffery
Ming,
I hate you using such offensive remarks “A regional war in Asia might be likely after 2050 between the USA/Japan and China as the 2 sides fights over resources in the E. China Sea.”
If china become a democratic country, then US will has no excuse in backing up Japan against China. we have been always saying that US is not holding an impartial position on the Sino-Japan relations. but why don’t we turn our head back and review our policy toward US? we always portray US as a BIGGEST ENEMY who want to topple down our country. any chinese people who be friendly to US will be blamed(even be abused) by some left-wing people and policians, sometimes they even be called as “ÃÀµÛ¹úµÄ×ß¹·”,”ºº¼é”. our goverment purposely cultivate one hostile atmosphere against US and US citizen. so under such circumenstance, why US stand by our china side?
Yes, i admit that sometimes some american are not very friendly toward china. but we should know that this sentiment is coming from the hate of dictatorship. i don’t believe that US goverment is likely to wipt all chinese people out of the world. what they wanna to wipe out, is the dicatorship.
If we regard US as enemy, then in return US will regard us as enemy too. vice versa.
November 24, 2005 @ 11:13 pm | Comment
29
By sun bin
“Ishihara isn’t warning you about the Chinese comming to you, Ishihara is warning you that you couldn’t go to them.”
No, Ishihara is not warning anybody.
He was just trying to provoke US to fight China. He is just using this as an excuse to ask for Japan to re-arm.
so that Japan can conquer China and then revenge on America.
Ishihara is very predictable.
November 25, 2005 @ 2:39 am | Comment
30
By sun bin
“Maybe you would be more cautious in your war mongering if China were your neighbor.”
ask any asian if they prefer china or japan as its neighbor.
November 25, 2005 @ 2:46 am | Comment
31
By Thomas
“Not so huge. America has made a very careful point of never fighting a war on its own soil (apart from when they fought each other!).”
“Not so huge. America has made a very careful point of never fighting a war on its own soil (apart from when they fought each other!).”
Liuzhou….you get the dumb comment award for the day. Forgive me if I am wrong, but I thought that all countries were careful about not going to war on their own soil. Maybe this will change, and the US will start inviting hostile armies over for tea?
November 25, 2005 @ 3:22 am | Comment
32
By denk
Jeffrey said, “we always portray US as a BIGGEST ENEMY who want to topple down our country”
Jeffrey I could give u tons of evidents documenting us hostility towards china, but the following is sufficient to illustrate us was up to no good since day one –but I let u decide yourself ….
“Representative Frederick R. Coudert. Did I correctly understand you to say that the heart of the present policy toward China and Formosa is that there is to be kept alive a constant threat of military action vis-a-vis Red China in the hope that at some point there will be an internal break- down?
Walter S. Robertson, Assistant Secretary of State for Far Eastern Affairs. Yes, sir. That is my conception.
Coudert. In other words, a cold war waged under the leadership of the United States, with constant threat of attack against China, led by Formosa and other Far Eastern groups, and militarily backed by the United States?
Robertson. Yes…”
http://www.zmag.org/ZSustainers/ZDaily/2001-04/09herman.htm
JEFFREY said, “our goverment purposely cultivate one hostile atmosphere against US and US citizen. so under such circumenstance, why US stand by our china side,,,,,
If we regard US as enemy, then in return US will regard us as enemy too. vice versa”
FOR chrissake, jeffrey, what have u been smoking lately, it must be damn good?
In 2002, some crown wrote to the atimes , accusing china of “bringing about the cold war upon itself…”
This was my response,
“Referring to Si Long’s very first letter on China, first, I want to recap some history. Please correct me if I am wrong. The US plotted the 1959 bloody Tibetan uprising; despatched the 7th Fleet to back up India’s attack on China in 1962; conspired with India to frame China as the aggressor – even today, this fraud is circulated in the US and Indian media; nuclear-backmailed China four times during the ’50s and ’60s; sent naval battle groups to intimidate China five times in the past five decades; regards it as a right to send spy planes to conduct hostile snooping along China’s coastline; provides covert and overt support to every rebel group in China, eg Tibetans, Taiwanese separatists, the Uighur separatists, the Falungong cultists; smears China as the new evil empire; bombed the Chinese embassy in Belgrade; formed “stragegic partnership” with India and Japan to “contain China”; and has now encircled China using the pretext of anti-terrorism. In view of theses events, I am shocked that you accuse China of “bringing about the new Cold War”.
Jeffrey, this is called “blaming the victims” , I have seen it lots of times in the us media, but coming from a Chinese, well, I don’t know whether to laugh or cry…
November 25, 2005 @ 10:03 am | Comment
33
By Filthy Stinking No.9
Denk … I think you just trumped previous efforts for the dumbest comment prize. It’s not worth attempting to rebut your comments because you’re clearly not willing to use your brain. I’ve said it before, and I know I’ll say it again: What you need to do is to consider the difference between the things you want, and the results of your words. At the moment, there’s a pretty major mismatch between them. Your words will simply alienate people from your view, encourage them to support contrary views … and hurt China’s national interests. Well done. Oh very well done.
November 25, 2005 @ 5:10 pm | Comment
34
By Laowai 19790204
Hey Denk, I’ve got a grassy knoll to show you.
November 25, 2005 @ 6:59 pm | Comment
35
By denk
Filfty stinky no 9 (sic)
Jeffery’s comments are clear cut, even a dummy couldn’t have misinterpreted it,
Jeffery: “we always portray US as a BIGGEST ENEMY who want to topple down our country……our goverment purposely cultivate one hostile atmosphere against US and US citizen”
deffery said that the ccp and the Chinese have been gratuitously demonizing the Americans.
I produced evidence to show him us hostilities are genuine, in which case the Chinese RESPONSE are justified, that’s hardly demonization.
The real demonization is done by the yanks, and there are rational yanks who object to it
http://gptaiwan.org.tw/~cylin/Letter_to_editor/Carter.htm
http://www.mtholyoke.edu/acad/intrel/chinamil.htm
Jeffrey : “If we regard US as enemy, then in return US will regard us as enemy too. vice versa”
Jeffrey said that Chinese hostility towards us begets us hostility towards china.
I told him its us hostility that begets Chinese resentment.
i.e. the “vice versa” part of his statement is true.
He is putting everything upside down.
I am accustomed to such “blame the victim” syndrome in the us media, but coming from Chinese themselves is comical.
I am setting the record straight, how could this alienate people?
If yanks resent being told the truth and consider me “anti americans” then their negative image in many parts of the world is truly justified.
If CHINESE resent me telling the truth then they truly get what they deserve.
Or is it just you who get offended?
When you said its not worth rebutting my points perhaps what u meant was u couldn’t, that’s obvious, how could one rebut a true statement.
Btw, if I feel someone’s remarks are not worth my comment, I simply ignore it.
I don’t write to hurl insult, that’s not constructive discussion.
May be I shoudnt have reponse to your (non)comment in the first place, oh well.
One more thing, I am not interested in advancing china’s national interest, (sic) I just cant stand nonsense.
November 25, 2005 @ 7:54 pm | Comment
36
By Johnny K
“If China survived the Cold War and reached the current status, it is likely that China will survived the next cold war against it.”
Not that I agree with the Cold War analogy as Communist China is certainly a different beast than was the USSR, but still. Saying China survived the Cold War is like saying Portugal survived the Cold War. China went from one side to the other and then back again. The Cold War was not against China, it was against the USSR…And America definitely won that round.
I will argue against denk at a later point in time
November 25, 2005 @ 8:35 pm | Comment
37
By me
isn’t it obvious why this article was written? To portray China as a threat when it really isn’t. This is so ironic, considering it is Japan which was once an agressor, and that China could have colonised Southeast Asia, but did not. (Think admiral Cheng Ho)
I don’t think any army in the world can take on the US, much less China. US has a history of raining the most toxic weapons down on its victims in their home country, and we’ve all seen pictures of victims of the Vietnam War, the Iraq war and Hiroshima and Nagasaki. Why on earth would China initiate such a cruel and needless war on itself?
I personally view Japan as the bigger threat, given its history and its constant tendency to portray itself as a victim of WWII when there are people still alive who can testify to the intense cruelty they subjected their victims to.
November 25, 2005 @ 10:51 pm | Comment
38
By richard
I agree with you about why the article was written. About Japan being the true threat – well, let’s just say I’m not at all convinced. Yeah, those Japanese who deny their cruelty in WWII are nuts, but they are hardly a threat to anyone. Except to Japan.
November 25, 2005 @ 11:26 pm | Comment
39
By denk
Lets see, japan says that it has apologized enough to china, so china should just buzz off and stop whining like a cry baby, but mean while, japan has
Occupied the diaoyu island,
http://www.skycitygallery.com/japan/diaohist.html
snuffed out china’s Russian oil deal,
http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/11/siberia-pipeline-odyssey-myth-i-have.html
challenged china’s gas field exploration in the east china sea
http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/11/chinas-bargaining-power-on-east-china.html
signed a defence pact with us “empowering” uncle to help japan “keep peace” in its “peripheral”, which btw, japan told china matter of factly , “includes the Taiwan straits” !!!
now if koizumi wants to stick his middle finger to china, he couldn’t have thought of a better way. Mind u, its japan which took Taiwan at gun point in 1899.
Continue to visit the notorious military shrine despite protest from china and korea.
It almost seem that koizumi is going out of his way to provoke china and Koreas,
http://chinamatters.blogspot.com/2005_04_01_chinamatters_archive.html
(this blog seems to get lots of spammings, may be someone don’t like the man’s opinion?
It would be nice if he allow anonymous postings though)
All these “in your face” gestures from koizumi, To what end, one wonders?
Well now koizumi gets to dump article 9, which forbade japan’s remilitarization, gets his military budget approved without opposition – cuz he claim and the Japanese believe , that china’s reaction shows its threatening japan’s security!!
Sound familiar? Koizumi is a good student, uncle sham must be proud of him.
Isn’t it a bit rich though, now that koizumi has done all that is expected of him, he is being chided for jeopardizing japan’s relations with its asian neighbours?
Hello?
Who was it who insisted that japan must remilitarise before it can be accepted into the un, security council?
Who signed a defence pact with japan that says Taiwan straits is under japan and us joint protection.?
Wasn’t rumsfeld himself who, together with his Indian counterparts, has been clamouring for an asian nato, spearheaded by us, India, japan, includes Taiwan and Singapore, but excludes china? Oh, they hastene to clarify, “its not an anti china coalition”
This is what we call “qi di wu yin san bai liang” 😉
November 26, 2005 @ 6:57 pm | Comment
40
By denk
Fiflty stinky no 9 (sic) made a very intriguing remark that I am alienating people who might be sympathic towards china, why ?
So far my rants are directed against the ruling clique in us, especially the rumsfeld cheney cabal which has been scheming to rule the world.
There are many yanks who are already doing this.
Those who are until now unaware of this cabal’s monkey business should thank me for this expose
Only those who are affiliated to that elite circle ought to be pissed off by my tirade, so which class does no 9 belongs to?
November 26, 2005 @ 9:16 pm | Comment
41
By sun bin
johhny k,
china did “survived the Cold War “, it was fighting both sides of the cold war in late 1960s early 1970s.
every one in china learned about how to deal with nuclear attack in those days. there were bunkers, caves, underground shelters, booklet to teach how one reacts to shock wave and nuclead aftermath (though there is really no good solution).
Mao was actually scared (if not, many others in China were, Deng definitely was) until the Nixon visit. That was what led to the changes.
—
as for how China would avoid the next cold war. i think we need not worry. the current leader, though have their own faults and weaknesses, seem to be doing the right thing now, by cooperating with the West and trying to be a ‘stakeholder’, and not giving the excuse the far right in Japan or US could monger on.
November 26, 2005 @ 9:37 pm | Comment
42
By ming
Of course Japan want to provoke a war between the USA and China. it would benefit Japan in its goal to regain territories in Asia again. Wouldn’t it be nice if the Master (USA) and the bloodhound (Japan) can rule Asia again??
But remember Japan and the West had tried to break China into pieces and destroy the Chinese civilisation in the past centuries. But the middle kingdom is still here today!
i have no sympathy to the Communist regime i hate Communism more than anything else in the world , but i will not tolerate any attempt to destroy China! and the Chinese civilisation. No civilisation deserves destruction regardless of its political ideology! Too many civilisations had been destroyed in the past by colonialism!
November 26, 2005 @ 9:38 pm | Comment
43
By denk
Did bush go all the way to Mongolia to sample the yak? Did he checked in the us installed listening post to eavesdrop on chairman hu’s email also?
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Hamilton_Foreign-Fodder.htm#Note9
I thought it rather touching that us spent so much time looking for mia in Vietnam after all these years, but why were those search teams stuffed with arty and infantry officers, all gulf war vet? Turn out that us is trying to rope in another member in the contain china club. Word has it that soon there will be joint us viet military drill.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/story50.htm
many “advisers” were sent to the philipines to train the locals in “anti terror warfare”, but the philipino pm arroyo found to her shock that her boys were in fact being drilled in anti china warfare!!
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2768332
why is us falling over himself to patrol the Malacca straits, when not a drop of us oil pass thru it,?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/05/1081017106683.html
The “freepers” are reputed to be privy to pentagon meetings so they might have the answers.
http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/11/strategic-location-of-luzon-strait.html
us has been dishing it out to china since 1949 now,
http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=87
(1959 tibet rebellion, 1962 indo china war, 1989 tianamen distabilisation etc..)
1999, embassy bombing..
being a democracy, uncle makes no bone about his plan to fix china ,
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2001-04/09herman.htm
http://www.janes.com/regional_news/asia_pacific/news/fr/fr030402_1_n.shtml
everybody knows it, the noose around china’s neck was almost complete even before 911
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/may/28rajeev.htm
post 911, with the mantra of fighting a war on terror, us invaded afghan, installed bases in all the stans countries in central asia,
http://www.cyberdyaryo.com/features/f2002_0911_03.htm
sent “advisers” to philipines , Nepal, to help fight “terrorists”, conducted military drills with India, hired an ecstatic japan as the local deputy,
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2005/03/pssssstyoure_surrounded_1.html
, co-opted outer Mongolia…..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1545911,00.html
rekindles his love affair with an old flame, the tni , notorious for its anti Chinese tradition,
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Indonesia65_KH.html
by lifting the arms sales embargo imposed since the east timor massacre , 1998
the steel ring around china is finally in place..
china , you are surrounded.
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2005/02/surrounded_1.html
everybody knows it.
Hell, being the gentlemen that they are, they even give you ten year advance notice, so you cant say you haven’t been warned,
http://www.sundayherald.com/27735
Everybody knows,, except……
I don’t want to put down anybody here, but I was really floored by the remarks that the ccp and even the Chinese people have been maliciously fanning hatred against good ole uncle sham, The neocons must be rofl
Come on, are the Chinese tired of living, — if u see a man fighting with a 1200 lb gorilla, whom do u think started the fight?
Time to wake up and smell the coffee,
Hai ren zi xin bu ke yu, fung ren zi xin bu ke wu !!
Especially when they been advertising their intention for all to se
For a start, keep in mind that the likes of war street journal is bad for your health.
November 28, 2005 @ 9:55 am | Comment
44
By denkd
Did bush go all the way to Mongolia to sample the yak? Did he checked in the us installed listening post to eavesdrop on chairman hu’s email also?
http://www.dissidentvoice.org/Articles8/Hamilton_Foreign-Fodder.htm#Note9
I thought it rather touching that us spent so much time looking for mia in Vietnam after all these years, but why were those search teams stuffed with arty and infantry officers, all gulf war vet? Turn out that us is trying to rope in another member in the contain china club. Word has it that soon there will be joint us viet military drill.
http://www.usvetdsp.com/story50.htm
many “advisers” were sent to the philipines to train the locals in “anti terror warfare”, but the philipino pm arroyo found to her shock that her boys were in fact being drilled in anti china warfare!!
http://www.investorshub.com/boards/read_msg.asp?message_id=2768332
why is us falling over himself to patrol the Malacca straits, when not a drop of us oil pass thru it,?
http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2004/04/05/1081017106683.html
The “freepers” are reputed to be privy to pentagon meetings so they might have the answers.
http://sun-bin.blogspot.com/2005/11/strategic-location-of-luzon-strait.html
us has been dishing it out to china since 1949 now,
http://www.vvaw.org/veteran/article/?id=87
(1959 tibet rebellion, 1962 indo china war, 1989 tianamen distabilisation etc..)
1999, embassy bombing..
being a democracy, uncle makes no bone about his plan to fix china ,
http://www.zmag.org/sustainers/content/2001-04/09herman.htm
http://www.janes.com/regional_news/asia_pacific/news/fr/fr030402_1_n.shtml
everybody knows it, the noose around china’s neck was almost complete even before 911
http://www.rediff.com/news/2001/may/28rajeev.htm
post 911, with the mantra of fighting a war on terror, us invaded afghan, installed bases in all the stans countries in central asia,
http://www.cyberdyaryo.com/features/f2002_0911_03.htm
sent “advisers” to philipines , Nepal, to help fight “terrorists”, conducted military drills with India, hired an ecstatic japan as the local deputy,
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2005/03/pssssstyoure_surrounded_1.html
, co-opted outer Mongolia…..
http://www.guardian.co.uk/china/story/0,7369,1545911,00.html
rekindles his love affair with an old flame, the tni , notorious for its anti Chinese tradition,
http://www.thirdworldtraveler.com/Blum/Indonesia65_KH.html
by lifting the arms sales embargo imposed since the east timor massacre , 1998
the steel ring around china is finally in place..
china , you are surrounded.
http://www.brothersjudd.com/blog/archives/2005/02/surrounded_1.html
everybody knows it.
Hell, being the gentlemen that they are, they even give you ten year advance notice, so you cant say you haven’t been warned,
http://www.sundayherald.com/27735
Everybody knows,, except……
I don’t want to put down anybody here, but I was really floored by the remarks that the ccp and even the Chinese people have been maliciously fanning hatred against good ole uncle sham, The neocons must be rofl
Come on, are the Chinese tired of living, — if u see a man fighting with a 1200 lb gorilla, whom do u think started the fight?
Time to wake up and smell the coffee,
Hai ren zi xin bu ke yu, fung ren zi xin bu ke wu !!
Especially when they been advertising their intention for all to se
For a start, keep in mind that the likes of war street journal is bad for your health.
November 28, 2005 @ 10:14 am | Comment
45
By Ming
So they have completed their net to contain the Chinese. So much for their propaganda about democracy, now they even enlisted the communist VietCong to contain China! i wondered if they will enlist myanmar next. It shows how much hatred the West and Jap have for the Chinese race!!
Its no longer ideolgy its a racial war!!! as i see it.
November 30, 2005 @ 10:14 pm | Comment
46
By paul manser
haha bit of bullshit if you all ask me. EU will be a superpower before those slanty eyed twats. For starters EU ahs worlds biggest economy and have 3 major powers in it to, UK, France, Germany. in a war with Europe and USA, Europe would crush USA with nukes/navy.
Did someone mention special forces, ERM SAS would kick ur delta team into submission any day/anyplace pal.
Greatest empire, pulease spare the american bullshite. British empire comes to mind with owning 1/4 of the pklanet, dumb fucks, i actually visited that dump and the dumb fat americans were scarily dumb as nething haha. Best university lies in Europe too, being oxford and cambridge, go figure.
USA 2nd best with economy, bring on your best fighter planes too with Eurofighter around, oh and just for soemthing extra EU has the biggest and bestest Airline planes Airbus A380 twice as big as boeshite.
February 16, 2006 @ 12:30 pm | Comment
47
By zack painter
hahahahahaahaha. actually euro is 2nd best economy. euro = $6.1 trillion. u.s. =$6.9 trillion
and damn. you have to be one dumb fuck to think that the EU could beat america in any feild. navy is far, far , far more advanced. army is well about the same. but our marines are exceptionally better than yours. except for maybe the royal british marines. way more nukes. and air force is extremely more advanced. even though you do have the eurofighter wich is a damn good jet. its still not quite as good as our best planes. and even if it were as good as ours we have way more of jets than you have eurofighters. so yes we would kick your ass in a war and you know it so stop with the bullshit. and anyways britain would never go in a war with the united states. we are its closest ally and vice versa. if we did fight the eu it would probably be on our side. so fuck off
May 26, 2006 @ 8:11 am | Comment
48
By Bring the Pain
Paul Manser, you argue with emotion, not with logic, which is a shame. The EU can not defeat the US in any war. Not on the ground, in the air, on at sea. We are simply better equipped and trained.
June 24, 2006 @ 6:57 am | Comment