I sense here there may be falun gong and then there may be falung gong; is there a difference between falung gong in an autocratic one-party state and falung gong in a democracy? Or is it perceptions.

Does anyone ever ask why is it that Falung Gong can come and go in Taiwan and other places around the world and never be a threat to the government or stability?
I have seen them in the parks here; I have even had them in Masters level classes at university, never have I seen or felt any of the fanaticism or threat of chaos.

Fear of the peasants revolt–isn’t that the group that Mao used to help him in his overthrow of the govt. and takeover of China? Is it that the manipulators of peasants fear most what they have done in the past?

April 21, 2006 @ 9:22 pm | Comment

Thanks Jerome, you get it. Try telling that to our friends on the mainland. You’ll get as far as when you tell them it’s time to let go of some of the rage against the Japanese. Hard-wired.

April 21, 2006 @ 9:47 pm | Comment

From what I’ve heard second-hand, overseas Chinese don’t like them much either. This blog explains why:

“The problem is that people in China who want more freedom and greater control over their own lives don’t like being represented in these matters by a batshit crazy apocalyptic cult. It’s as if Britain was a dictatorship and we were “represented” abroad by members of the Flat Earth Society.”

April 21, 2006 @ 11:31 pm | Comment

I don’t know anyone who like the FLG (except its members). Just like Mormons. But I believe Mormons should be allowed to practice their religion and do whatever else they want, as long as they obey the law.

April 22, 2006 @ 1:02 am | Comment

I couldn’t agree with Richard any more.
As for me, i myself don’t like Falong Gong and its member, because i had been so botherring by their never-stopping emails. but i think it’s unlawful and improper to deprive their rights. it’s their freedom to practise their religions.

if this time we don’t fight for the deprived freedom of Falong Gong members, next time no one would fight for our own freedom too.

April 22, 2006 @ 2:34 am | Comment

the same reason why some muslims could become “terrorists” in the US while they are nice people in the rest of the world

April 22, 2006 @ 4:46 am | Comment

I don’t know anyone who like the FLG (except its members).

———————–

wrong. those who fund FLG and their TV stations, newspapers, junk mail systems, etc. like them too

April 22, 2006 @ 4:47 am | Comment

Falun Gong, AGAIN!

“I don’t know anyone who like the FLG (except its members). Just like Mormons. But I believe Mormons should be allowed to practice their religion and do whatever else they want, as long as they obey the law.”

You are wrong! How can you say they obey the law when this crazy cow was on court.

What do you say if somebody holding a banner with grotesque and gruesome pictures stands opposite your front door everyday, accusing you of atrocities nobody is able to prove?

Wheelers have huge influence on naive or sophisticated westerners who are desperate to applause anything, yes anything, told by the enemies of CCP, no matter they are devil or moron.

They fabricate stories and feed them mingled with some distorted truth to others to defame a government and harass its officials. How can you regard this as obeying laws?

If I hold a banner outside white house/hall claiming that BUSH/BLAIRE government killed somebody for stealing his organ what do you think will happen to me?

Nothing happens to those who are doing exactly these things outside Chinese embassies.

They are breaching the laws. they are at large because they are the enemy of China.

April 22, 2006 @ 10:57 am | Comment

Falong Gong is a politically motivated group. I suspect the Epoch Times is funded by the CIA, or the Heritage Foundation, which incidentally I found a link attached to its web site.

April 22, 2006 @ 1:23 pm | Comment

Bing, in all probability, nothing will happen to you. Honestly. you can stand on a street corner and say anything you want. There are protesters outside the White House every day saying all kinds of things.

I have friends who have protested during Congressional hearings and inside the Republican National Convention. They get arrested for disturbing the peace and released. During Republican party events, people have been unjustly arrested or detained or thrown out of the events. They get charged with disturbing the peace, they pay a fine, they’re released.

It gets more serious, when, for example, you can be charged with tampering with military or government property. Several nuns managed to gain access to a military base and pour blood over a missile. They were sentenced to something like a year (more?) in jail for this.

The FLG protestor has been charged with a federal crime punishable by up to six months in prison: “willfully intimidating, coercing, threatening and harassing a foreign official.”

I don’t like FLG and I think that they certainly do have a political agenda. But one of the things that gives them power is the CCP’s supression of them. I doubt that they’d be taken very seriously otherwise. But the perception that they are being unjustly persecuted arouses peoples’ sympathies.

Somewhere on one of these threads or in the DuckPond, somebody made the very astute comment that people who favor a more open, democratic China resent the Falun Gong because it’s like having the craziest fringe elements representing your views in the public’s mind. I agree.

April 22, 2006 @ 2:40 pm | Comment

Lisa,

“Bing, in all probability, nothing will happen to you. Honestly. you can stand on a street corner and say anything you want. There are protesters outside the White House every day saying all kinds of things. ”

I thought LIBEL was punishable?
From Wikipedia:

In English and American law, and systems based on them, libel and slander are two forms of defamation (or defamation of character), which is the tort or delict of publishing (meaning to a third party) a false statement that negatively affects someone’s reputation. “Defamation” is the term generally used internationally, and is accordingly used in this article where it is not necessary to distinguish between “libel” and “slander”.

******************
“But one of the things that gives them power is the CCP’s supression of them. I doubt that they’d be taken very seriously otherwise. But the perception that they are being unjustly persecuted arouses peoples’ sympathies.”

The only thing that gives them power is the support from US government and many other campaign groups who either turn a blind eye to, or have no interest to investigate, wheelers’ moronic and demonic nature and conveniently use them to serve their own course.

It’s so sad that organisations like amnesty international cite stories fabricated by wheelers or others who anti-China (though they may claim they are only anti-CCP) to press China for democracy, free speech and human rights. If they really care about their own image and want to influence Chinese people then do not involve themselves with garbage.

April 22, 2006 @ 3:22 pm | Comment

Bing, the lawyers out there can correct me if I’m wrong, but in order for something to be libel (or is it slander?) you have to knowingly make false statements about someone.

When I talk about experiences of those who have protested Bush in various situations, I am speaking from personal knowledge about people whom I know who have done it. I have marched in protests myself. As a matter of fact, when Reagan was elected I protested at his victory event in San Diego. It was held in a shopping mall, and Donnie and Marie Osmond came in on a hot air balloon! Anyway, I was carrying a sign with drawings of an American flag, a church, and something else, and I wrote on it “Welcome to the 4th Reich!” I was very young. I was NOT popular amongst the Reagan supporters, but no one arrested me. I actually got very close to Reagan as he made his way up to the stage to speak – close enough to see that he looked sort of confused, trying to find his way up onto the stage, and that he was wearing a tremendous amount of pancake makeup.

My point is that if you wanted to take your sign about Bush and Blair stealing peoples’ organs and go stand in front of the White House with it, you can. Unless you try to trespass on the lawn or breech the security barriers, no one will care.

I don’t discount what you’re saying about certain interests supporting the FLG – I’m sure you’re right about that. But I do take issue with your characterization of Amnesty International. They are a pretty fair-minded group that advocates for human rights regardless of nation/religious affiliation/etc. They’ve been very critical of recent US practices (rendition, Guantanamo, etc.), and rightly so.

If I were going to pick a poster-child to represent Chinese human rights violations, it certainly would NOT be the FLG. It’s hard for me to advocate for an organization that I don’t trust or admire. However, some of their claims of abuses at the hands of the Chinese government have evidence to back them up. I can’t approve of that. I don’t approve of any extra-legal imprisonment or torture, regardless of who is doing it or who it is being done to. I tend to speak out more about what’s being done by the American government, because as an American, this is my direct concern. But I condemn it everywhere.

April 22, 2006 @ 4:15 pm | Comment

Bing, as a p.s., I don’t agree with the characterization of the FLG as a simple exercise group. It’s obvious that they have a political agenda. I also agree that cults of this sort can be dangerous to their members.

However, organizations of this sort can feed off of persecution. It fuels their perceptions of themselves as “special” and touched by God or what have you. For certain people, there’s nothing more attractive and self-validating than martyrdom. That’s what I meant when I said that the CCP crackdown on them helped give them power, by increasing their own sense of self-importance. I’d be interested to see some membership statistics, before and after…

April 22, 2006 @ 4:22 pm | Comment

Bing, if you are interested, here is an account of an anti-Bush protest that happened yesterday at Stanford University. Some highlights:

“Although President George W. Bush was scheduled to meet with fellows at the Hoover Institution on Friday, the presence of more than 1,000 protestors forced him to change his plans and meet with advisers and faculty members at the residence of former Secretary of State and Hoover Fellow George Shultz on the outskirts of the Stanford campus.”…….

…..outside the Hoover Institution, the crowd chanted, �Hey-Hey-Ho-Ho-Bush is here, he�s got to go.� Another popular slogan targeted the conflict in Iraq, as students yelled, �1-2-3-4-We don�t want your fuckin� war-5-6-7-8-Stop the killing, Stop the hate.�

As the protest grew louder, the Sheriff�s Department attempted to clear the street to provide the president�s motorcade a safe entrance into the complex. When the students refused to obey these verbal commands, more than 50 police officers in full riot gear were called to the scene. Dressed in protective helmets, the officers used their batons to push individuals back from the Tower.

In response to the use of physical force, students directed their chants at the perceived infringement of their rights.

�Whose campus�Our campus. Whose streets�our streets,� they yelled. �Tell me what democracy looks like�this is what democracy looks like.�

The struggle between the Sheriff�s Department and protesters reached its climax when a fire truck attempted to drive down the street and was blocked by the crowd. Security personnel were attempting to move those blocking the truck when three Stanford students sat down and refused to move.”….

…”Mocking the administration, about an hour later, members of the San Francisco-based Global Exchange Group drove a Hummer toward the police barrier closing off Serra from Galvez. Using a speakerphone and donning masks of Bush and Secretary of State Condoleezza Rice, they parodied Bush�s foreign policy and the level of security on campus…”

The three students mentioned above were arrested – more details in the article.

April 22, 2006 @ 4:34 pm | Comment

Lisa,

There are numerous abuses taking place in China everyday, many of those victims are much more innocent and need somebody to speak for them.

Amnesty International do have the time and resources to take care of Wheelers while ignoring houndreds and thousands of other Chinese who don’t have a funny master and religious hood.

There are two victims in front of Amenesty International who have the same kind of suffering. Now if the AI can only advocate for one of them, due to limited resources, which one do you think they will pick?

I suppose they would go for the wheeler. Why? It would be more sensational for them and westerners.

The problem is, for ordinary/normal/sober/sound Chinese, that is the wrong answer.

In that way, AI are not only helping the victim, but at the same become the propaganda tool of the group the victim belongs to (or alledgedly belongs to).

To pursue ultimate fairness when dealing with those issues does not necessarily lead to a fair outcome.

Is it fair that because the support for a wheeler from AI, one more person is converted to a wheeler?

April 22, 2006 @ 4:49 pm | Comment

Bing, I don’t think that AI is focusing on FLG to the exclusion of others in China. I just went on their website and did a simple search on China to see what came up. not one hit on FLG. When I search on FLG specifically, I get 14 hits.

AI believes in universal principles of human rights. That means applying them to groups that we may find distasteful or even dangerous.

Another thing we should be asking ourselves here is why are certain people susceptible to being influenced by groups like FLG? I don’t think you’d join if they tried to recruit you, Bing. Right?

April 22, 2006 @ 5:05 pm | Comment

I have no problems with Hu or any other Chinese officials heckled, egged or protested. There are too many reasons to not treat them as such in proper occasions.

I have problems with Wheelers. As you said, a group with its own political agenda. They are discredited.

The support for their members is a support for their group. As simple as that.

April 22, 2006 @ 5:06 pm | Comment

“AI believes in universal principles of human rights. That means applying them to groups that we may find distasteful or even dangerous. ”

There is no universal principle that applies in any circumstances to anybody.

It’s just an excuse of human beings’ incapability of handling difficult issues in complex and complicated situations.

It’s like saying: because we in England drink milk and have beef, you guys in Sahara must do so otherwise you are not having human rights.

“Another thing we should be asking ourselves here is why are certain people susceptible to being influenced by groups like FLG? I don’t think you’d join if they tried to recruit you, Bing. Right?”

Because we were born different and we developed differently. Because nothing is universal.

April 22, 2006 @ 5:16 pm | Comment

Bing,

But if their members are being tortured, do you consider that justified?

Believe me, I don’t support the group either.

But to me, it’s just like torturing detainees – I don’t care if they are members of Al Qaeda. I don’t think it’s right. For the same reasons, I support due process of law and not extralegal detentions.

April 22, 2006 @ 5:16 pm | Comment

“AI believes in universal principles of human rights. That means applying them to groups that we may find distasteful or even dangerous. ”

There is no universal principle that applies in any circumstances to anybody.

It’s just an excuse of human beings’ incapability of handling difficult issues in complex and complicated situations.

It’s like saying: because we in England drink milk and have beef, you guys in Sahara must do so otherwise you are not having human rights.

“Another thing we should be asking ourselves here is why are certain people susceptible to being influenced by groups like FLG? I don’t think you’d join if they tried to recruit you, Bing. Right?”

Because we were born different and we developed differently. Because nothing is universal.

April 22, 2006 @ 5:16 pm | Comment

“But to me, it’s just like torturing detainees – I don’t care if they are members of Al Qaeda. I don’t think it’s right. For the same reasons, I support due process of law and not extralegal detentions.”

I am with President Bush on this.

April 22, 2006 @ 5:19 pm | Comment

Lisa

If torturing a detainee can prevent another 911, what would you do?

The dogmas of the quiet past are inadequate to the stormy present

April 22, 2006 @ 5:29 pm | Comment

Well, that’s a topic for another time, Bing (and it’s something I’ve discussed at length here and elsewhere).

Right now, I have to run. Speaking of more worthy HR cases, I am trying to meet with my assemblyman about Hao Wu.

Nice talking to you!

April 22, 2006 @ 5:37 pm | Comment

Okay, I have five minutes. So here it goes:

Torture is not the most effective means of getting information. Information given under torture is often, if not usually, inaccurate.

There are more effective interrogation methods (ask the FBI agents who observed what was going on at Guantanamo and were absolutely appalled).

Ticking time bomb scenarios of the sort posited by torture apologists are extremely rare. Should one actually occur, and a person makes the decision to torture someone in order to stop it, then you could make a necessity defense. But that alone does not constitute sufficient grounds for establishing a legal framework for torture.

What torture really is, more than a means of interrogation, is an instrument of state power. The purpose of torture is to create fear and terror, and to impress upon would-be opponents of the state what can happen to them if they resist.

Okay. Going now.

April 22, 2006 @ 6:15 pm | Comment

the only fact i know is that flg murdered three people i know and totally ruined the life of my relatives! this is crime and they must be stopped and punished.

anyone who funds the flg is the enemy of china and and the enemy of myself.

April 22, 2006 @ 6:25 pm | Comment

How did the conversation melt down like this? If FLG nembers murdered anyone they should be charged with murder. I can point to lots of examples of religion leading to murder and ruining people’ lives. I can make an argument that today’s extreme Republicans are an evil cult with blood on their hands, too. But we don’t ban Republiucans and arrest and torture them en masse.

Meanwhile, there is little sympathy here for the FLG’s cause as a political/exercise/whatever group. I can’t stand them. But don’t make things up[ (referring to Hello’s comment way up the thread) – they get little sympathy and support from your everyday American. There is precious little sympathy here for the FLG movement – only for their suppression, just as there’s sympathy for other persecuted groups around the world. I’ve never heard any American rhapsodize about the FLG or say they believe in its philosophy or practicces. Only that they believe no group that adheres to the law should be rounded up and tortured.

Bing, that tired contrived argument about what you would do if torturing some terrorist would prevent another 911 has been addressed many, many times. That situation has never, ever arisen. If it does, we might have to take super-extraordinary measures not addressed in the law and do “whatever it takes” (although as Lisa said, it would probably result in failure, but we’d have to try). None of those people in question (in Gitmo, Abu Ghraib, the secret prisons, etc.) are in this situation; most have been languishing in their cells for years, and they aren’t masterminding another 911 from there.

April 22, 2006 @ 7:33 pm | Comment

from early 1980s till 1990s, thousands of similar spiritual movements and Qi-gong became popular among chinese, and none of them were “persecuted” by chinese government or hated by chinese people. why?

the only reason that flg was “suppressed” is that they are a criminal group that ruined the lives of hundreds of thousands people, and government must take measures to stop them.

you have to remember that flg is a habitual liar and most of their accusations of being persecuted are most likely lies.

when flg was banned, there are hundreds of people around me whom i know are flg practioners, but none of them was “persecuted” or even harassed, and several of them live aboard and came back china to distribute flg propaganda sh*t didn’t get into trouble too.

the funding from the US intelligence to flg is disgusting. they are helping flg ruin the lives of my relatives. really disgusting

April 22, 2006 @ 8:29 pm | Comment

“Bing, that tired contrived argument … most have been languishing in their cells for years, and they aren’t masterminding another 911 from there.”

I don’t disagree with you at all. That was just an example to say that there is no universal principle that applies anytime anywhere and to anyone.

You and Lisa both missed the point. I’m not the certain people, so they might be susceptible to being influenced by FLG but I’m not.

Republicans are not FLG, so they are not punished due to a few badeggs but FLG deserve what they got.

Please can you find another group of people who are against the local government and have a similar history (evil cult and bloody tragedies), a similar master (fraudster and illiterate), a similar practice (libel towards government officials, disrupting satellite tv/radio broadcast, spamming, harassment, etc), a simliar everything and still live happily without being charged, banned or abused by a few rogue policemen?

April 22, 2006 @ 9:02 pm | Comment

Er, just to reiterate, I’m not an FLG supporter. I am only arguing for a consistent rule of law and against torture. If it’s true that all of the stories about FLG persecution are made up, then there’s no argument here.

And like Richard said, murder is a crime, and if certain individuals committed murder, then they need to be punished accordingly.

Also, I have no idea if US intelligence agencies are funding FLG groups. I wouldn’t rule out the possibility, but I wouldn’t swear to its truth either. It wouldn’t surprise me if they did. But on the other hand, accusations don’t equal reality.

April 22, 2006 @ 9:03 pm | Comment

I had a long drawn out essay planned, but firefox died on me and I lost it all. Serves me right for not writing it up in notepad first. To make a long story short FLG = Chinese church of Scientology + quasi political party.

April 22, 2006 @ 9:14 pm | Comment

I’ve heard that too – there is a major organization(s) that funds ET/FLG/ETTV (possibly government sponsored, hint hint) but who knows, no evidence right?

On the other side, they were hightly organized before they spread out and had 70+ million members with a pretty strong agenda – thats enough to accomplish almost any project let alone just printing stuff.

From an organizational view they’re pretty super.

April 22, 2006 @ 9:35 pm | Comment

Jing, I agree with you. The Scientology comparison is valid. But do you think we should arrest and torture Scientologists or Mormons? Maybe some people would like that, but a free society has controls to ensure freedom of expression, which I think is a damned good thing. Some right wingers see gays as a dangerous fringe group trying to pollute society and recruit their children into a world of perversion. Thank God we have these controls to stop such people from living out their vision (at least for now; with Bush in charge, who knows?). So I’ll agree, they are an exercise group and a quasi political party. And no one likes them ‘cuz their icky, and I agree. So what? I’d say pretty much the same about some US religious cults. But so what?

Bing, if they (FLG members) are spamming or harrassing, they can be arrested and charged, just as a group of Republicans was arrested and charged recently with jamming New Hampshire phone lines. Should we arrest and torutre all republicans and ban them? Appealing as that sounds on some levels, I am against it. Are you?

So interesting, how the conversation descends into the irrational when the Magic Three Topics arise, Taiwan, Japan and the FLG (with Tibet up there as well).

April 22, 2006 @ 9:37 pm | Comment

“And like Richard said, murder is a crime, and if certain individuals committed murder, then they need to be punished accordingly.”

——————-

so why do you think nice individuals, mostly middle-aged women, could committed crimes like that?

as a matter of fact, they kill themselves by refusing to go to a doctor. the real criminal is the organization, the leaders, organizers and their followers.

as i said, when killing is happening, the top priority is to stop them, not to protect the rights of the criminals.

the right attitute is first to ask how many people suffered from this criminal group then ask if this criminal group is treated lawfully and humanly. you guys did everything reversely, it’s not a respect for a dissent group but an humiliation to all the victims of flg

April 22, 2006 @ 11:41 pm | Comment

If the FLG sticks to its own religious practicies without harming others, then the CCP would not have started a crackdown. In fact, that is what happened: the FLG crackdown started in 1999, while the group has been in existence since the early 90’s or the late 80’s. Their Master Li was even featured in some local TV shows and his group was encouraged as an exercise group. Then, Master Li decided that it’s time to bring it up a notch, and started talking about levitation, spiritual healing of illnesses, stopping incoming cars with the mind, etc. As a result many practioners died because they refused to go to the doctors, others jumped from their 3-story apt buildings because they believed they could fly, a few more tried to stop incoming trains with their auras, etc. On a less serious level, FLG practioners were known to leave their families and just wander off, because they believed their achieved a higher state of being. Of course the FLG would deny all those, but FLG members dying due to those incidents were documented across many villages in China’s hinterland, way before the crackdown started, and that’s when the gov’t was getting alarmed.

Today, the FLG is not a religious organization anymore, it is a political organization. Their newspapers and websites and TV stations very rarely talk about their religious practicies itself, but instead talk about the evils of CCP. Last year, an actress from the Mainland died of a heartache in her home, and in the wake of that, a FLG associated site called Renminbao ran a special, and claimed that she had connections to certain corrupt CCP members, and that she starred in a CCP propaganda film before, and therefore she deserved her death, and then the website showed a picture of her on the deathbed, and warned other CCP supporters that they may share a similar fate if they didn’t denounce their support for the CCP soon.

April 23, 2006 @ 12:33 am | Comment

“just as a group of Republicans was arrested and charged recently with jamming New Hampshire phone lines. Should we arrest and torutre all republicans and ban them?”

Well, as I emphasised, FLG are not Republicans. I don’t think your analogue is helpful.

From your opinion, there is actually not legitimate reason to ban any group as long as half of its members are not criminals.

April 23, 2006 @ 4:50 am | Comment

No group should be banned unless they specifically make it part of their charter to commit criminal activity, like Al Qaeda. The American Nazi Party isn’t banned. Even the Communist Party isn’t banned, despite the untold millions and millions who died at the hands of brutal communist dictators. So interesting, to see normally rational people throw their critical faculties to the wind and say, in this one case, an entire religion should be banned, punished and even tortured. Shocking. Compare the blood on their hands, and the blood on the hands of riot police in and paid thugs in rural China.

(On a side note, readers may have noticed “you know who” is back, this time as “Hello.” He literally flooded the message board and then this thread with comments earlier. My apologies.)

April 23, 2006 @ 5:01 am | Comment

From your opinion, there is actually not legitimate reason to ban any group as long as half of its members are not criminals.

Even if all their members are criminals, a group should not be banned unless it commits – or incites others to commit – criminal acts. That’s why very, very few groups are ever banned in free societies, even dangerous and unsavory groups like NAMBLA are legal, as long as they stay within the confines of the law.

April 23, 2006 @ 5:09 am | Comment

“Even if all their members are criminals, a group should not be banned unless it commits – or incites others to commit – criminal acts.”

—————-

flg incites others to commit crimes.

do you want me to tell you the names of those who i know died because of flg and the names of my relatives whose lives are now totally ruined by flg?

April 23, 2006 @ 6:03 am | Comment

i was just wondering why a criminal group like flg could get funds from some organizations in teh US?

April 23, 2006 @ 6:09 am | Comment

Bingfeng, what organizations in the US fund the FLG?

April 23, 2006 @ 11:38 am | Comment

p.s. I have seen American FLGers lately. The other day, I was driving behind this yellow Scion XB that had FLG decals all over it, like it was a car that belonged to FLG or something. Kind of weird.

April 23, 2006 @ 11:40 am | Comment

other lisa,

i don’t know which organizations in the US fund them, but don’t tell me that these organizations are in other countries or flg don’t have outside funds.

April 23, 2006 @ 6:18 pm | Comment

Recognizing bingfeng’s personal vendetta against the flg, which can be understandable, though I am also brought to wonder about how many Chinese could make the same claim against the Cultural Revolution. There are many who lost friends ias a result of that and family’s whose lives were ruined. (Now that Ido remember it one of them wrote a book about Mao which got a lot of space)

Still, the government really does not castigate the cultural revollution as it does the flg.
And I still ask, why is it that only China seems to be bothered with the alleged 70 million. Can 70 million really threaten the stabillity of 1.3 billion? If so, why?

April 23, 2006 @ 7:06 pm | Comment

another question for bingfeng, you may be giving the CIA or whatever organization you claim funds the flg, too much credit.
Why not some other country funding them? What about France, though I have a French son-in-law, France always wants to sell guns. Lords of War type of thing.

April 23, 2006 @ 7:09 pm | Comment

Bingfeng, I’m not telling you anything. I really don’t know and I’m wondering if you know this for a fact or whether it’s your opinion.

You know, an organization like Scientology as far as I know does not receive “outside funds.” They are wealthy because they get their members to “contribute” a huge amount of money, which is then invested into real estate and the like. It’s entirely possible that FLG is the same sort of deal. If they are as cult-like as everyone says, then undoubtedly they hit their members up for large amounts of money.

April 23, 2006 @ 7:18 pm | Comment

other lisa,

the flg memebers told me that they received salaries to do the job and when they came back china to distribute their propaganda sh*t they had subsidies fro their trips and accommodations from flg. my relative who is a flg member doesn’t donate any money to flg but worked for flg and got some subsidies from flg.

come on, you won’t believe that flg is on their own foots to fund their TV stations, newspapers, and all their dirty jobs, right?

April 23, 2006 @ 8:21 pm | Comment

the reason why i suspect that organizations in the US funded flg is quite obvious – guru lee lives in NJ, all the flg organs are in teh US, and most important, who cries most for the “persecution” of flg? the US government.

all sources of flg fundings direct you to american government and their intelligence arm – CIA.

my advice is – if you guys really want to have an agent to organize anti-ccp activities, find a better one.

April 23, 2006 @ 8:26 pm | Comment

Bingfeng’s angry! It’s not the Japanese today, but the FLG, each capable of providing rich, succulent material for the glue that binds today’s young Chinese together, the two-minute hate. He and he alone knows that the CIA funds the FLG. Well, no, he doesn’t have any evidence, just an emotional feeling, but then, since when does that get in the way? “All the evidence lead to the US and the CIA.” But let’s just leave it at that. No need to say what the evidence is or why/how it leads to the US or the CIA. Bingfeng says so. And by golly, that’s good enough for me.

if you guys really want to have an agent to organize anti-ccp activities, find a better one.

I guess you haven’t been reading my posts about this incident. I am not on the side of the FLG demonstrator. Not at all. This was a major Bush screw-up, and if I were Hu I’d be simply furious. If the CIA really wanted to organize an event to embarrass Hu, they have far more effective resources at their disposal than a crazed heckler. Now, I am open to the idea that someone let this heckler in, aware that she was bad news (if not, then the Secret Service is all but useless). But why that means the FLG is funded by the CIA — well, I never heard of such a thing. But then, Bingfeng says it, so it must be true. An interesting argument.

April 23, 2006 @ 8:53 pm | Comment

i am not talking about the incident in the hu-bush meeting. it’s a small case. i don’t mind if hu lost face or china lost face because because of that crazy falungongist.

my point is quite clear-cut: there are better agents for those political powers to employ to organize their anti-ccp campaigns. associating with flg is like having bin laden to sell chinese culture to american people. go t my point?

as for the “evidence” for american funding flg, pls read my orginal words:

“the reason why i suspect that organizations in the US funded flg … ”

April 23, 2006 @ 9:03 pm | Comment

i have two questions for richard, if you were me,

1) do you believe that flg doesn’t have outside funds?

2) if they have, where do you think they most likely get their funds?

April 23, 2006 @ 9:06 pm | Comment

Bingfeng, you’re a smart guy and I like you, but whenever you discuss these two topics – Japan and the FLG – you become another persopn. I just looked through the thread to find the “evidence” you say you offered, but i can’t find it. Here’s all you say:

guru lee lives in NJ, all the flg organs are in teh US, and most important, who cries most for the “persecution” of flg? the US government.

Well, if that isn’t intelligent, undeniable proof of CIA funding and involvement, what is? Problem is, you are making one absurd claim after the other. How do you know the US government “cries most” for the FLG? What’s your barometer, to measure this, and what’s your source? How have you researched this?

This blind rage against China’s perceived enemies brings out a side of you that I suggest you keep to yourself during job interviews with multinational companies. Look at how scary you sound:

anyone who funds the flg is the enemy of china and and the enemy of myself.

Again, if you can’t control this rage, I suggest you at least try to hide it from others. Keep it in a little box, and open it only at night when you are alone. Because it’s not going to help you with your career or your private life.

April 23, 2006 @ 9:16 pm | Comment

1) do you believe that flg doesn’t have outside funds?

2) if they have, where do you think they most likely get their funds?

I suspect they get their funding from very zealous members and fundraising drives; they have a zealous PR machine that’s good at making noise and attracting donors. They are not receiving outside funds from any government. How do I know this? Just a feeling. (Actually, I’m the first to admit I don’t know this for a fact, just as Bingfeng doesn’t know they are receiving funds from foreign governments. There is literally no indication they are that I know of.)

Question 2: I think they get most of their funds from the Girl Scouts of America and from the Chinese Union of Blind Massage Practitioners. Now, this is just based on a feeling. But you have as much proof that they’re getting it from the US/CIA as I do that they’re getting it from the Girl Scouts.

April 23, 2006 @ 9:23 pm | Comment

i won’t ridicule other lisa when she became emotional during the katrina tragedy because i knwo she is human and every human will become emotional for their friends and families. it’s a respect for others and for yourself.

as for your advice for my career, thanks, but i am sorry i haven’t been interviewed by MNCs. perhaps i will do it in the future.

maybe i should not sound like another GW Bush? compare my words with your president:

bingfeng – “anyone who funds the flg is the enemy of china and and the enemy of myself.”

GW Bush – “you are either with us or against us”

April 23, 2006 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

even flg didn’t get fund from the US government, allowing such a criminal group to florish and use the US as a base to attack chinese is also a crime.

what do you think if china allow bin laden to set up a TV station and print newspapers and send people to overthrow the US government?

April 23, 2006 @ 9:40 pm | Comment

“Again, if you can’t control this rage, I suggest you at least try to hide it from others.”

—————-

why the hell should i control the rage when my relatives were ruined by this criminal group?

April 23, 2006 @ 9:43 pm | Comment

The “with us or against us” statement was made in regard to an act of war, and was letting people know if their countries harbored or aided or abetted terrorists involved with the 911 attackers, those countries were our enemy. That was, especially at the time, appropriate. Unfortunately, bush seems to have carried it beyond 911, applying it to just about everything, and I condemn him all the time for this, of course.

I appreciate you at least being honest about your inability to control your rage. All the best.

April 23, 2006 @ 10:01 pm | Comment

Its entirely possible FLG is NOT funded by CIA or other government agencies.

You know they have 70 million members, they’re highly organized, extremely zealous with what they believe and brainwashed to say the least.

Hypothetically, say half their members donate 100 dollars a year to the supreme FLG leader – that’s already in the billions. They have enough financial resources to hire the best of the best to sell their agenda and overthrow most countries in the world. They are massive enough to acheive almost anything.

I do agree with B – FLG’s leaders should be held criminally responsible for their actions in China and abroad.

April 23, 2006 @ 11:21 pm | Comment

I do agree with B – FLG’s leaders should be held criminally responsible for their actions in China and abroad.

I fully agree. All people should be held responsible for their actions. Like the thugs who arrested Hao Wu.

April 23, 2006 @ 11:54 pm | Comment

“I fully agree. All people should be held responsible for their actions. Like the thugs who arrested Hao Wu.”

—————

hahaha, you are a lovely guy, richard!

you don’t want to lose every opportunity to attack chinese government, very much like some super anti-japa nationalists in china, who will seize every opportunity to attack japan.

so many similarities of those human weaknesses!

April 24, 2006 @ 12:21 am | Comment

I certainly do feel anger toward the people who arrested Hao Wu 8 weeks ago. (Don’t you?) But how is this comparable to your ranting about the FLG, which is by your own admission fueld by fury, accusing them of being funded by the CIA and causihng you to say they should all be arrested and punished? I certainly don’t say that those who arrested Hao Wu are my sworn enemies and that I hate them (though, admitedly they aren’t my favorite people) and that I hate every one who ever helped them. That would be kind of nuts, don’t you think? We don’t want to let our hatreds get the better of us. If you haven’t noticed, I am trying to give Hu and his party as much credit as I can and to point out their successes. We can’t let blind rage engulf us and distort our perception of reality. Let’s try to keep a clear head.

April 24, 2006 @ 12:40 am | Comment

I do think we should end this thread. We all know where the other stands. What’s the point?

April 24, 2006 @ 12:42 am | Comment

I’m confused by the Katrina reference…

April 24, 2006 @ 1:09 am | Comment