Always remember the source: Gertz writes for the Moonie times, and as always, he is banging the drum for “the China threat.”
A Chinese submarine stalked a U.S. aircraft carrier battle group in the Pacific last month and surfaced within firing range of its torpedoes and missiles before being detected, The Washington Times has learned.
The surprise encounter highlights China’s continuing efforts to prepare for a future conflict with the U.S., despite Pentagon efforts to try to boost relations with Beijing’s communist-ruled military.
….The incident is a setback for the aggressive U.S.-China military exchange program being promoted by Adm. Fallon, who has made several visits to China in recent months in an attempt to develop closer ties.
However, critics of the program in the Pentagon say China has not reciprocated and continues to deny U.S. military visitors access to key facilities, including a Beijing command center. In contrast, Chinese military visitors have been invited to military exercises and sensitive U.S. facilities..
To know what I think of Gertz, just do a quick search of this site. There may indeed be a story to be told about China’s arming itself for a war of aggression against the US. But with Gertz, it’s always the same story with very little variation.
1
By Ken
China would be “stupid” not to prepare for war with the U.S. and the same goes the U.S. against China. The U.S. also has a war plan against Canada too.
Planning such things is what militaries do and makes some sense… as long as it isn’t the reality of one’s mindset.
November 14, 2006 @ 8:09 am | Comment
2
By Johnny K
This is really just nitpicking, as I agree with the overall thrust of Ken’s point that military readiness involves planning for a wide variety of exigencies, but…
The US *HAD* a war plan for Canada. Itwas abandoned decades, if not more than a century ago.
We HAVE plans for attacking Venezuela, Iran, North Korea (OPLAN 5027). I’m actually curious to as where the cutoff of “friendliness” lay for planning invasions.
Mexico?
Still got one for Russia?
Pretty much every country in Africa?
Switzerland?
San Fransisco?
I can’t imagine the US conjuring up a NATO plan to invade itself (auto-invasional hilarity in Dr. Strangelove nonwithstanding)–though I’d like to think the military boys made one against France for shits n giggles
Hi, I’m back.
November 14, 2006 @ 10:14 am | Comment
3
By Pha
This seems like a typical Chinese maneuver. It pains me to watch Americans try and deal with the Chinese this way. We need to be more skeptical about their motives and more careful about making deals when they are clearly only interested in expanding their own power.
November 14, 2006 @ 10:32 am | Comment
4
By davesgonechina
@Pha: yes, those devious inscrutable Chinese. You know those restaurants are all communications depots… karaoke kryptography and microfilm fortune cookies everywhere!
We know what you’re planning, General Tso! We know all about your plan to drug us into an MSG-induced coma with poisoned menus, followed by a devastating volley of poor customer service from Lenovo! You were the one who faked that order of Cream of Sum Yung Gai to Mark Foley’s office, and we all saw it when you snuck those naval spies in through Mexico with Cheech Marin and Hugo Chavez’s help! We all read James Clavell! You can’t fool us! Stop it right now, or we’ll… we’lll… we’ll invade Iran and plunge the dollar so low you’ll never get your money back! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
This message brought to you by the Blue Team, a subsidiary of GlobalChem’s Neocon Zombie Fascist Hordes. Please contact Jessie Helms disembodied spirit via seance for additional information.
November 14, 2006 @ 10:21 pm | Comment
5
By Ivan
I doubt that America has any invasion plans for Canada, but if Americans had any sense they would declare war on Canada and then immediately surrender.
November 14, 2006 @ 11:06 pm | Comment
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By Pha
@davesgonechina
Ah ha! So they are more advanced than I thought. I had no idea about the evil General Tso’s plans for world domination. Hehe. But seriously, all I’m saying is that we need to take the China threat seriously, and we also need to realize that mutual exchange programs need to be carried out carefully considering that the Chinese are notorious for deal breaking and cheating. As far as Canada, most of the cities are right there on the border so the invasion shouldn’t be that difficult, but what are we going to do when we need to avoid the next draft?
November 15, 2006 @ 9:49 am | Comment
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By davesgonechina
@Pha: exactly what do you mean by “China threat”?
“the Chinese are notorious for deal breaking and cheating”… how constructive of you.
November 15, 2006 @ 12:53 pm | Comment
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By Pha
@Dave
@Dave
I mean China poses a military threat to the United States. Is that clear enough for you? It’s funny, submarines stalking air craft carriers is not very “constructive” to me, but I guess that’s nothing compared to stating what every foreigner who has ever spent more than a week in China knows. Yes, it’s true. Chinese people can be dishonest at times. Occasionally they will make a deal and then break it. I’m sorry to be the one to break the news to you.
November 15, 2006 @ 2:54 pm | Comment
9
By moon
Moonie tried to invest a car plant in China in the 1990s and got screwed. That’s why all these china-bashings.
November 15, 2006 @ 2:54 pm | Comment
10
By Gojuplyr
The whole submarine thing is a non-story. Why would the US Navy give a damn about an almost obsolete sub shadowing it? This just seems like a way for someone to get a little ranting done.
November 16, 2006 @ 8:09 am | Comment
11
By bellevue
I wonder why Adm. Fallon hesitated?
November 16, 2006 @ 10:29 am | Comment
12
By davesgonechina
@Pha: I’m still not clear as to what the Chinese military threat is. Are we talking about threats to allies such as Taiwan and Japan, threats to the U.S. mainland, or simply threats to the existing balance of power in the Pacific? China’s military modernization hardly constitutes a threat in itself – all nations look to maintain an effective military. And China’s navy has an awful long way to go before it starts projecting power beyond the Taiwan Straits. It doesn’t even do that now; we still have the advantage carrierwise. They aren’t blue water and its going to be a while before they are. I’m fine with PACOM staying on their toes and developing a counter-advantage, but if China does the same then there’s nothing out of the ordinary about it. By the way, China’s naval development is stuck in the early 20th century. They seem to still imagine Midway, rather than a fleet-in-being approach.
Submarines stalking aircraft carriers can be very constructive. Submarine espionage during the Cold War allowed both sides to be aware of the others capabilities, rather than spinning paranoid fantasies about what devious hidden agenda they *might* have, with really is simply an invitation for the more fevered imaginations to wax crazy.
Bill Geertz has been a key member of the Blue Team bitchfest for two decades, and his constant chest thumping related to China has grown quite tiresome. The frenzy whipping he and his cronies engage in is a very close sibling of the Neocon Middle East reshaping fetish, and just as retarded.
A far smarter approach to the Chinese navy, by the way, would be to pressure them to improve on small light craft so they can take over duties patrolling sea lanes around Southeast Asia in cooperation with US forces. It would allow the US to draw down its Asia presence, which is becoming an albatross, gain valuable knowledge of Chinese naval operations through cooperation, reduce piracy in the region and reduce tensions. Unfortunately the Chinese seem to be into the idea of building massive battleships, which are useless for such patrols and also outmoded for modern naval warfare. They cannot roll back the clock to an Alfred Thayer Mahan world not matter how sexy they think it is, but that seems to be their current policy. That in turn will impede Chinese naval modernization even further when they have to go back to the drawing board.
As for Chinese dealbreaking, you’re saying that based on anecdotal personal experience with individual Chinese people at times, you feel this informs your knowledge about the Chinese government. That’s like if I said I went to rural Missouri and found people drinking moonshine out of tin cups, and decided that must be what they drink at White House state dinners. Zhongnanhai is not the same as the “art gallery” across the street where you got ripped off for a fake scroll painting.
November 16, 2006 @ 1:45 pm | Comment
13
By Eric Schultz
After looking over this site and reading the many post, I have to agree with Ames Tiedeman. This site may not be pro-Chinese, but it is definitely anti Bush and inherently ant-USA.
You jumped all over Ames, but if you back up and read everything, you cannot say his comments are without merit.
November 19, 2006 @ 9:03 pm | Comment
14
By Eric Schultz
After looking over this site and reading the many post, I have to agree with Ames Tiedeman. This site may not be pro-Chinese, but it is definitely anti Bush and inherently ant-USA.
You jumped all over Ames, but if you back up and read everything, you cannot say his comments are without merit.
November 19, 2006 @ 9:03 pm | Comment
15
By Eric Schultz
After looking over this site and reading the many post, I have to agree with Ames Tiedeman. This site may not be pro-Chinese, but it is definitely anti Bush and inherently ant-USA.
You jumped all over Ames, but if you back up and read everything, you cannot say his comments are without merit.
November 19, 2006 @ 9:04 pm | Comment
16
By richard
Eric, it’s my site, and I’m in no way anti-American. Being anti-Bush isn’t anti-American. If it were, more than 60 percent of the US population would be thus categorized. I’m actually a fairly moderate Democrat. Even most Republicans are disgusted with Bush right now.
November 19, 2006 @ 9:16 pm | Comment
17
By richard
Goodness grackious, “Eric” – I just noticed that your IP address is 69.203.87.86 – isn’t it amazing that that’s the exact same IP address as Ames? Will wonders never cease.
Why does this site attract asshooles like Ames/Eric? (And Ames, I appreciate your get-well message from earlier. But when you do shit like this, you are in fact being an asshole. One of my hot buttons is sockpuppets who come on and defend another commenter, who just happens to be himself under another alias.)
November 19, 2006 @ 9:19 pm | Comment
18
By Ames Tiedeman
@Richard:
We are roomates!
November 20, 2006 @ 1:30 am | Comment
19
By Ames Tiedeman
Of course China is preparing for war. America is preparing for war too.
This is how a balance of power is kept.
America has war plans ready for any number of situations. I would imagine that America has war plans for the invasion of Canada. It is what war planners do. They have plans! The U.S. probably has more plans for invading other countries than any other nation on the planet. This is what the folks at the Pentagon do. They must always be ready for any situation, anywhere on the planet.
November 20, 2006 @ 1:34 am | Comment
20
By Ames Tiedeman
@Richard:
You must be feeling bettter!
Hope so..
November 20, 2006 @ 1:35 am | Comment