First time to Comment, Richard. Read the site for a while now, but never thought of anything to say.

Indeed this is quite a shock to some. I’ve been following this since the beginning and my mum has been sending me info from medical (both human and animal) news groups.

One of the messages she sent was then printed several days later almost word for word in the NYTimes article that was referenced here. Not sure which came first.

I consider myself an equal opportunity basher when it comes to governments. I give China as much as I give my own government. I know this horse has been beaten to death, but when will China EVER learn that in trying to save face by lying or covering up informationi, they only are successful in causing greater loss of face AND loss of trust both at home (but China seems to think F**k it’s own citizens) and, more importantly in this day and age, overseas.

What is really discouraging is just when I seem to think China has learned her lesson, the government and business owners go and screw it up again. How many years will this set China back in terms of gaining trust.

Sadly, the fools who are screaming “boycott the Olympics” are starting to make a little sense – but not much.

May 9, 2007 @ 8:04 pm | Comment

Thanks for finally commenting, Hahn. Trust me, you are preaching to the choir. But at least it only took a few weeks for China to step up to the plate and take action. When it came to the AIDS cover-up in Henan province it took years, and with SARS it took months. Yes, they have their heads up their yinyangs and only seem to take action when the heat of world opinion becomes too intense and they feel threatend. That’s partly why I blog – every little bit helps.

Boycotting the Olympics isn’t the answer, I believe; the Games should transcend politics. Besides, you can always find some reason to boycott any host country. Better to use the games to further open China up and hope things continue to get better, as slow a process as that may be.

May 9, 2007 @ 9:42 pm | Comment

“”””””””Small wonder that the government was (relatively) quick to expose these bastards. “””””””””

Theres no doubt in my mind that if the CCP thought that “exposing the bastards” that eported the poison would be good for the CCP, all they would have to do is pay some guys to say they did it. I’m not saying it was neccessarily the CCP behind the poisonning but I’m just saying that you can’t trust anything of their stuff. If they say those people were guilty, it is the same as when they said the red army got carried away on its own, BULLONEY!! The CCP is responsible for the peoples moral bankruptcy and money worship and depravity, thats the way the brainwashing forms their minds. This is in no way isolated, Oh no.

“”””””””””” China’s reputation as the global exporter to all the world’s people just suffered a stunning blow.””””””””

If thats the case then i can definitely see the positive side here. People need to know that the Chinese people are morally bankrupt and have absolute filth poured into their minds by the CCP. The sooner the better, before they put anthrax in all the sox and underwear,, And baby toys!! Ok I dont think thats their plan,, I think their plan is to make the world so evil that people will think the CCP is acceptable,

Thats why they hate religion, cause religion and any spiritual way, would definitely say the CCP is from hell, so they elliminate that “dissenting” view…

Hahn,

you said,

”””””What is really discouraging is just when I seem to think China has learned her lesson, the government and business owners go and screw it up again. How many years will this set China back in terms of gaining trust.”””””’

Do you think the genocide against Falun Gong will disappear from peoples minds? Do you think the CCP can brainwash the whole worlds to make them thing that the CCP is not an evil murderous fool?

Hopefully no, so if they cannot manage to fool the world, they will have to pay for their crimes. After so much evil, how can they still have a good reputation?

As for the reputation of the Chinese people, the longer they accept the CCP, the less chance they have of recovering and sort of dignity or reputation. If they stand up for truth soon they will be the heros of the world, but if they allow the evil to run rampant, then well, I still dont blame the Chinese people… They are victims, But I still think they should do something to make China good, not just look good.

May 9, 2007 @ 11:06 pm | Comment

China has been caught doing what China does best, making cheap, dangerous products to maximize short term profits.
The US congress should lay down that 27.5% tariff right now, as I’ve said before; “China is a threat to the human race”. Now it is evident.

But 50% of the blame goes with Big Pharm companies who outsourced and subcontracted production to cut costs and fatten their worthless executives, they also lobby and pressure the FDA to lessen its oversight activities and for the Bush admin to reduce the FDA’s budget.

Outsourcing of any industry other than putting tips on shoelaces is an utter failure.

A pox on MNCs and a pox on Bad China.

And yes, the Olympics should be boycotted. Sports does not transcend politics in this instance as the Olympics were awarded to Beijing on political considerations.

May 10, 2007 @ 12:44 am | Comment

I mention this blog in my post about pet food below, they are super on top of this issue and all of its broader implications –

http://www.itchmo.com

They are a blog for pet owners but their tracking of this issue has been sensational.

May 10, 2007 @ 1:19 am | Comment

China’s reputation as the global exporter to all the world’s people just suffered a stunning blow.

If you have conviction to your statement, you ought to start shorting the Chinese market. For instance, CAF would be a great short.

Right after the collapse of Enron & WorldCom, many pundits called the whole American financial system a house of cards built on chicanery. Short them all, I would say.

Only when you start putting your money where you mouth is, you start realizing:

* Talk is cheap.
* You are wrong far more often than you realize.

I honestly don’t know if the reputation of China as a whole took a huge hit or not. Instead of jumping to a conclusion, which in my case can cost me serious money, I would carefully analyze the available data and talk to people who make real decisions.

May 10, 2007 @ 1:27 am | Comment

“Boycotting the Olympics isn’t the answer, I believe; the Games should transcend politics.”

Perhaps it should; but it never has and it never will.

And this time around it’s all about politics – the hosts don’t know any other way. They’ll be busy trying to sell the idea that most gold medals means China is the greatest nation on Earth, at the same time whipping up dangerous levels of nationalism. For the CCP it’s all about accolades and superlatives.

Praise should be offered where it’s due, but 2008 offers an unprecedented opportunity to the world’s journalists to show their mettle and demonstrate that, in any country seeking a global endorsement, NO topic is “off-limits.”

To this end, for example, no foreign visitor should walk into Tiananmen Square without full knowledge of what happened there – a truly shameful notion. In fact, foreign governments should encourage all visitors to the Square to light a candle.

We can’t take the politics out of this one – there’s been too much denial; too many lies. Besides, to sit back and appease these dictators would surely contradict the Olympic ideal. And we can’t be having that, can we?

The CCP really could score their greatest PR coup ever if they were to issue an apology over ’89 during the Games’ opening ceremony. Hell, I’d vote for them if they did THAT!

May 10, 2007 @ 1:42 am | Comment

China export billions, billions, billions dolloars worth of goods every year. Things like these are bound to happen. CCP doesnt have a “lets poison the world” agenda so everybody just relax.
Accidents like these are more likely results from the greed of some chinese business men, the poor design and execution of Chinese food/health care regulation system rather than some hidden agenda from CCP government.
The good news these accidents are getting exposed. If you live in China long enough, you know that the coverups are more rampant a few years before. 5 years ago, reports about mine accidents in Henan/Shanxi would be banned by local governments. and now local leaders are more than happy to let news out because they know if they dont report they would be sent to jail.

May 10, 2007 @ 3:08 am | Comment

Wk, I totally agree that this isn’t some deliberate sabotage by the CCP. That would be counter-productive to the extreme.

However, encouraging openness, transparency and a watchdog press would really help expose these problems before they become larger crises – and so far the CCP has been reluctant to take these steps.

May 10, 2007 @ 3:45 am | Comment

“The US congress should lay down that 27.5% tariff right now, as I’ve said before; “China is a threat to the human race”. Now it is evident.”

Nah, the U.S is more of a threat than China.

May 10, 2007 @ 4:39 am | Comment

The CCP doesn’t have a “let’s poison the world” attitude, but they do have a “we don’t care if we poison the world” attitude.

Look at how the CCP lets its people breath, drink and eat unprecedented levels of pollution and land seizures occure unabated not just to the detriment of peasants’ livlihood but to the detriment of China’s food producing capabilities.

May 10, 2007 @ 5:17 am | Comment

yeah, it’s terrible, but as long as there are fat ceos willing to pay off corrupt third-worlders and kill their own people for a profit, it’s not going to change. if china ever cleans up, people are going to be getting their “special ingredients” from nigeria.

May 10, 2007 @ 7:24 am | Comment

So in other words ferins, you have nothing left to stand on by pre-emptively blaming Nigeria for the next wave of food poisoning?

I agree about the CEO part, but both China and the corporate world are equally culpable.

May 10, 2007 @ 7:34 am | Comment

no, they’re not. china is responsible for hurting their own people. the corporate leaders in the usa are the ones bringing in garbage in whether it’s cigarettes, transfat, mcdonalds, phen-fen, vioxx, soda, fake wheat gluten, or whatever.

once china’s costs go up, they’ll find some other place that makes cheap garbage and then feed it to your babies. it’s not like they’ve ever stopped doing it.

May 10, 2007 @ 7:43 am | Comment

ferins, I’ve put a lot of blame on the corporate system here myself, but what you’re saying doesn’t make sense. American corporations imported this stuff because it was “cheap.” They did not import it knowing that it was deliberately poisoned.

Let’s get this straight: those manufactures in China deliberately adulterated their products. They lied about the ingredients.

Where the US is to blame is in having a succession of Republican governments that have cut back on the enforcement mechanisms of agencies that are supposed to protect against this kind of thing. Companies – in this case, a Canadian company (Menu Foods) is to blame for deliberately stalling on its recall and then only ordering a partial recall of affected products. Corporate mono-culture is to blame in that one small pet food company (again, Menu Foods) produces some incredibly high percentage of pet food in North America (it might be as high as 70%). The global economic system is to blame for not factoring in very real costs – social and environmental, increased carbon load – when it considers importing things like this from overseas as being “cheaper” than producing and buying domestically.

But none of the companies or agencies on the North American side knew or had reason to suspect that their Chinese partners were LYING about what was in their products.

There’s plenty of blame to go around, but let’s place the greatest share on the people who actually deliberately committed the fraud, okay?

May 10, 2007 @ 8:34 am | Comment

They’re either overly trusting or they just don’t care. People need to learn that they get what they pay for; and I’m 100% sure that these corporate goons knew most Chinese food companies have no regulations whatsoever.

May 10, 2007 @ 8:36 am | Comment

ferins, again, that makes no sense. Look at the consequences of this scandal – HUGE lawsuits against the North American manufacturers and pet food companies.

Cutting corners, looking for cheap ingredients, sure, but I will bet you that these companies didn’t know that they were buying deliberately contaminated goods.

I do agree with you on another level – you get what you pay for. This is going to have consequences far beyond pet food. I hope they will be positive ones (more stringent regulations, more people buying locally, etc.). Just in the realm of pet food, the numbers of pet owners that are switching to “organic,” premium foods (or even making their own) as a result of this are huge.

May 10, 2007 @ 8:55 am | Comment

Does the US lack food contaminations, junk food, health violations, etc? How about the nutritional value of McDonalds, Burger King, Wendy’s, KFC, Pizza Hut? What is the average weight of Americans? If you have all this time and excitement to talk about food contamination from China, why not look at your own problems?

Give me a break.

May 10, 2007 @ 10:37 am | Comment

Um, because this particular Chinese food contamination poisoned tens of thousands of North American pets, perhaps?

Give me a break, HongXing. That wasn’t even a good attempt to confuse the issue. I’m sure you can do better if you put your mind to it.

/snark

May 10, 2007 @ 10:57 am | Comment

And speaking of said contamination:

Melamine and additional related contaminants have been found in concentrations of up to 20% in analyzed samples. The MSDS for pure melamine is attached as Attachment B and includes warnings “to avoid breathing dust, avoid contact with eyes, skin and clothing”. Chronic exposure may cause cancer or reproductive damage.

Read all about it here.

May 10, 2007 @ 11:01 am | Comment

Red Star, with all due respect, are you a total birdbrain? (No need to reply to that.) Yeah, a lot of food in America and elsewhere can make you fat and give you heart problems. Would you compare this with intentionally selling poisonous ingredients and mislabelling them to avoid health inspectors? Ingredients that can cause death in the very short term? If any company in the US did this they would be out of business in a heartbeat. An employee of a big meat processing company in the US a few years ago lazily failed to clean his equipment, leading to the sale of beef infected with trichinosis. Within a very short time, the entire company was out of business. We all know eating McDonald’s on a constant basis is awful for you. But if they ever once intentionally put arsenic in their Big Macs and killed people, they’d be finished forever.

wk, your comment above is at the very top of the Stupid Index: China export billions, billions, billions dollars worth of goods every year. Things like these are bound to happen. CCP doesn’t have a “lets poison the world” agenda so everybody just relax.

Well, the US also exports trillions of dollars of stuff, as does Japan. Does that mean it’s okay if every once in a while we poison people’s food supply? Like, “mistakes were made” but let bygones be bygones? No. There is a zero-tolerance policy for willful endangerment of people’s health. Nothing like this has happened before; that’s why the world is looking at China with some amazement. Precisely because of your attitude, “Hey, it’s just one little example.” It’s the implications of this example that are so terrible, that a company peddling its wares in the international marketplace would be selling poison, knowing it’s being used in the food industry.

Ferins, you are right up there: If you have conviction to your statement, you ought to start shorting the Chinese market.

I never said the Chinese market was going to crash. I said China had better be damned careful because this sort of scandal can taint its reputation as a global trader. Actually, China did the smart thing by coming forward about these companies, but as usual, it was late to the party, leading most thinking people to conclude that despite all the progress, it’s still the same old China we know and love, only admitting to wrong-doing after the international spotlight left them with little choice. (And yes, I know this was a crime committed by a Chinese company, not the CCP, but the CCP still acted as it did in days past, denying the scandal for as long as it could, only digging itself deeper into its self-created hole.)

May 10, 2007 @ 11:53 am | Comment

WSJ has a very informative article on this topic “Unsafe food additives across Asia feed fears”. The tops 3 countries with the highest number of imports refused by FDA: India, China, Mexico.

May 10, 2007 @ 1:07 pm | Comment

That makes sense, CLC. And the FDA would have banned the wheat gluten in question, if the Chinese company hadn’t intentionally mislabelled it as a non-food product. That’s where the real scandal is – the companies took conscious steps to avoid inspection, because they knew they were exporting poison that would go into food.

May 10, 2007 @ 1:13 pm | Comment

Hong Xing,

Way to switch topics. Several Chinese companies, though one or two are highlighted, are accused of exporting a dangerous chemical to foreign countries with fraudulent certificates; these actions poisoned thousands and killed countless people. While e.coli contamination is bad, there is a big difference between contamination from unclean equipment or lax regulations of standard operating procedures and outright fraud of deadly implications. One is by oversite whereas the other is because of dispicable criminal action!

Even worse is the hint given in the NYT article that the CCP is likely to execute the private entrepreneur but has been very lax in punishing fraudulent chemicals which come from state owned factories. Kind of like the Da Tou Wa scandal, in which the middleman selling the fraudulent baby formula were punished, but, as I understand it, the state owned factories which produced the material in Heilongjiang got off with a lighter punishment.

Certainly not all of the CCP is corrupt; that is beside the point. The corrupt elements in the CCP seem to want to protect themselves and, by extension, there hold on power, rather than punish the outright criminals in their organization that trangress major laws and moral considerations…

That, in and of itself, is a good reason to boycott China. The party in power will not change until its pocket book is affected. A moratorium on all food additives from China until a better safety system is set up would do wonders.

May 10, 2007 @ 1:17 pm | Comment

I’m actually a little surprised it’s taken this long for an even such as this to occure. With all the cases of food contamination – the school cafeteria and fake eggs among others – it was just bound to happen. Combine that with some Chinese more than willing to cheat their own countrymen and women, ultra-willingness to cheat a laowai, it’s little wonder these brilliant businessmen and/or women took the next step and turned it global.

This is just the first case that has actually been traced back to China. I wonder if there have been other cases… but the schmucks were just too good at covering their tracks.

Remember all the outcry when it was reported – albeit falsly – that Baskin Robins was making icecream next to a bathroom? When baby formula was found to be only milk? While these were foreign companies, the persons responsible were Chinese. It didn’t matter to the Wangs and Lis that Chinese had committed the acts. It was the evil foreigners who owned the evil foreign companies who were responsible. How much ink was wasted for days reporting those events?

But I digress…
Back to the topic at hand: It’s just not pet food that has been found to contain melamine. Not sure if it’s been mentioned on here. Chicken feed has also been discovered to contain melamine laced wheat gluten. That means this stuff has/may have entered the human food supply. Dogs and cats… and chickens… is quite shocking, but to think that it no may directly affect -and possibly harm- humans is nothing to take lightly. That, friends and neighbors, is something that really gets my dander up.

Meat-on-a-stick boy usually has some off the wall comments, but he does make one point. Beijing got the Olympics by promising to clean up their act. Ie. press freedoms, human rights, a general opening up. The Olympics were made political the moment they were awarded to Beijing. While I don’t think we’re there *yet* to call for a boycott, I think a few more large-scale screw-ups would certainly make the argument more convincing.

Peace and harmony

May 10, 2007 @ 1:34 pm | Comment

“And the FDA would have banned the wheat gluten in question, if the Chinese company hadn’t intentionally mislabelled it as a non-food product. That’s where the real scandal is – the companies took conscious steps to avoid inspection”

Now that the Chinese company had intentionally mislabelled it as a non-food product to avoid FDA inspection. How on earth a product labelled as non-food product ended up in food product here in Canada? Does that mean the US or Canada company that IMPORTed the product deliberately cheated the pet food company (e.g. Menu Foods) ? Or there are some other reasons that haven’t been uncovered yet for this tragedy?

It seems like there aren’t many news/reports about the importing company and QA of the food manufacture compay on the wire. (I might be wrong.)

May 10, 2007 @ 2:03 pm | Comment

Beijing got the Olympics by promising to clean up their act. Ie. press freedoms, human rights, a general opening up.

Hahn, where did you get this from? You think the IOC is a club of Western journalists, who curiously tend to think they righteously speak for the world?

May 10, 2007 @ 2:21 pm | Comment

“I’m actually a little surprised it’s taken this long for an even such as this to occure. With all the cases of food contamination”

Outsourcing by big pharm and big food industries means that even if they suspect something is up, they really don’t want to know about it. They probably didn’t know about the tainting but in their rush to cut corners to increase paydays for worthless execs (and their expat sourcing henchmen), they outsource to the lowest bidder and say “fuggedaboudit”. And if anyone criticisizes them, those people are pinko commies who are against America.

China has always turned out cheap junk and foreign companies have always made excuses for them. I hope that stops, and I hope Amcham members in the food industry start getting arrested when they come back to the US.

And to think people want to start selling chinese cars here!

May 10, 2007 @ 2:49 pm | Comment

Boycott??
You gotta be seriously retarded to say such word. Food related scandals happen oftern in the united states. I have heard 2 cases of vegetables recalls in the last 2 years in the region I live in. These onions and peppers imported from mexico contain virus that are deadly to human. After these vegetables were destroyed, American importers are happily importing same branded vege/fruit from the same regions. I have never ever heard of boycotting mexico.

May 10, 2007 @ 3:12 pm | Comment

Look, wk, though I am in general a big China booster, you seem to be missing the point here. Contamination with bacteria happens. It shouldn’t, necessarily, and there are safeguards that can help prevent it, but it’s an accident!

The Chinese companies deliberately added an illegal ingredient to their product and lied about it. The regulatory system in China is weak and didn’t catch it.

They did this on purpose. They lied. They committed fraud. It’s a criminal act.

These are not the same kinds of incidents. Not even close. Not admitting it makes you look like an apologist of the worst sort. You think that kind of attitude is going to help China? You’re wrong.

May 10, 2007 @ 3:32 pm | Comment

Carol, you make a very strange argument. Do you think the importing company specifically requested that it be sold poisoned, contaminated ingredients? What do you base this on?

Lisa, you tell him. Every word in your reply to wk is spot-on, but it’s pretty clear wk isn’t going to get it. They are equating tragic accidents, like the e coli outbreak in Adwalla fruit juice some years ago, with an act of wanton, intentional criminality. Kind of interesting, how people can put on blinders like this and deprive themselves of the ability to think critically and distinguish nuance. And it’s not like there’s any subtle differences that are hard to distinguish. Accidental bacterial contamination and the willful poisoning of food ingredients are world’s apart, and that some people can’t see it will never fail to astound me.

May 10, 2007 @ 4:46 pm | Comment

@Brgyags
“Hahn, where did you get this from?”

I can provide recent links that mention Beijings failure to live up to it’s promises made to the IOC. Not sure what exactly you meant with your comment, but here are two sources:

Fair Use from Time:
“(BEIJING) — China has failed to live up to promises to improve human rights for the 2008 Olympics in Beijing, Amnesty International said in a report Monday, despite the nation’s reforms to the death penalty system and more freedoms for foreign reporters.”

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1615920,00.html

Fair Use from Al Jazeera:
“It (the report) also says that while the authorities have increased freedoms for foreign reporters, new methods are being deployed to rein in the domestic media and censor the internet.”

http://english.aljazeera.net/NR/exeres/728D46C5-4C3D-42C0-BB50-F9A336FCCB1A.htm

Though the articles deal with the recently released report by Amnesty International, the articles mention the “promise” China made.

Oh, and I thought I’d give articles from different ends of the spectrum.

Richard, not sure exactly what your policy is about quoting and linking so…

Peace, love, and Tiger Balm

May 10, 2007 @ 9:48 pm | Comment

my view is that china needs to check their food, but that responsibility for the poisonings in u.s is on the corporations. there is an inherent risk from buying foods from places that are unregulated and cheap.

May 10, 2007 @ 10:37 pm | Comment

whilst this is a big issue in the US, there appears to have been very little about this here in the UK, so i am not entirely sure the effects on china’s reputation outside of the us. but, given that the us is so important, and that the extremely cautious japanese will undoubtedly pick up on it, damage will be done.

i will be interested if this emerges in the uk in the next few days, after the whole blair’s resignation thing has died down

May 10, 2007 @ 10:40 pm | Comment

Hey, relax! I just read this and the world and China is safe….
China to Use Mobile Food Testing …
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20070510/ap_on_re_as/china_food_safety_2 !

May 10, 2007 @ 11:02 pm | Comment

“…why not look at your own problems?”

As ever, the party faithful can be relied upon to tackle the issues head-on.

May 10, 2007 @ 11:50 pm | Comment

Let’s see ferins or wk claim that Al Jazeera is a US pawn when it bashes China for completely failing to live up to its IOC committments.

As for bacterial contamination of food, bacteria on occasion slips through humans kidneys and into your bladder. Anytime you have a slight burning sensation when you urinate, or cloudy urine, one bacteria may have slipped through. And kidneys are a highly evolved filter.

E.coli contamination from China or Mexico would not be a big deal, it is a very hardy species.

However, these chinese companies that have been adding melamin and cyanic acid for years to chinese food and that doesn’t make ferins and wk mad.
The fact that these companies got caught selling junk products to foreigners and are getting scolded along with the Chinese gov’t for not enforcing its food quality laws is a loss of face.

And this goes for pollution emissions too.

My experiences in China and extrapolated from this situation can be summed up as follows:
Chinese expect that you should come down to their quality of life, they can’t or won’t fight to come up to your level.

May 11, 2007 @ 12:07 am | Comment

It is really funny that some people mess the Olympics here with poisoning food from China. Nothing China did in the last few year justifies a boycott of the Olympics in Beijing. But these guys are constantly looking for troubles; and Olympics in Beijing is a huge opportunity. But do you think your personal boycott is going to make any difference? you are on the wrong of the history on this.

May 11, 2007 @ 12:24 am | Comment

“they can’t or won’t fight to come up to your level.”

lol?

so you want them to come back home after 12 hours at work and then put on their Che t-shirts and fight the man? what the hell do you think everyone in China is doing?

you see this is the exact kind of garbage that i find really short-sighted and just plain stupid. people in china are fighting like you would never know. they just don’t emulate the approach of hippie revolutionistas.

who said it didn’t bother me that the CCP is hurting Chinese people? that’s practically 100% of my interest in China; wanting to see the best for the people there. i know the CCP is incredibly inefficient.

but i the corporations are specifically to blame for the problems happening in the U.S. they can’t suddenly play dumb and pretend they don’t understand the fundamentals of capitalism; pay little, get little.

but these companies are going to bring a backlash on the entire country, and if the CCP wanted to do the best thing they’d fix things like this asap.

May 11, 2007 @ 12:55 am | Comment

evil, ferins. The CCP is evil.

“It is really funny that some people mess the Olympics here with poisoning food from China. Nothing China did in the last few year justifies a boycott of the Olympics in Beijing. But these guys are constantly looking for troubles; and Olympics in Beijing is a huge opportunity”

Food poisoning is one issue, 900 missiles pointed at Taiwan is another, demonizing Japan is another, making claims to Indian and Korean territory is another. Unwavering support of the Darfur genocide is another. Assistance for Iran’s nuke program is another, death buses for ef el gee members and “splittists” is another. Tibet and E. Turkmenistan, two more issues.

All of that together sums up to one really bad China that never deserved the Olympics.

China doesn’t understand capitalist fundaments otherwise it wouldn’t have a fixed currency, slap 20 to 40 percent trariffs on foreign good and have the nerve to get upset when western countries place punishment tariffs on Chinese goods and the Chinese gov’t wouldn’t hold controlling stakes in publicly listed Chinese companies.
Deceteful, bad China.

May 11, 2007 @ 1:13 am | Comment

“That makes sense, CLC. And the FDA would have banned the wheat gluten in question, if the Chinese company hadn’t intentionally mislabelled it as a non-food product.
Posted by richard at May 10, 2007 01:13 PM ”
“Carol, you make a very strange argument. Do you think the importing company specifically requested that it be sold poisoned, contaminated ingredients? What do you base this ?”

Sorry sir. The Chinese company that made that poison gluten is evil.
But what I mean is that it’s strange that a product labelled as non-food product ends up in food product here in Canada. When the importer receive the gluten product found out the product was non-food product (the label says so) at the custom, a normal person or company should reject those product right away, right? That isn’t what you ordered, what you ordered is food product.

The Chinese company that made that poison gluten should be to blame harder and harder. It is evil to contaminate food.

But with the knowledge that the product is labelled as non-product, the importer still sell/delivery them to food company, which is evil too.

My point is that there are not many news/reports on the investigation of the importer, but the importer should be questioned too.

Sorry if the argument is bad.

May 11, 2007 @ 1:24 am | Comment

ferins, though I agree with a lot of what you say, again, you don’t seem to get it re: the corporations’ role in this. Corporations do a lot of socially damaging things in the name of short-term profit, and the specific companies involved in this scandal deserve a share of the blame. But if you think any company would buy food ingredients they had reason to believe were deliberately contaminated, you are just plain wrong. There are going to be lawsuits from here to Mongolia (metaphorically). A lot of brands have lost huge amounts of business (good!). This isn’t what they have in mind when they buy cheap ingredients from overseas.

The people here who defend the actions of these Chinese companies who deliberately broke the law and pretend it’s no different than accidental bacterial contamination – what can I say to you? The Chinese government certainly gets the difference! They’ve arrested these people. They know that China can ill-afford to have this sort of thing go on and ruin its reputation in the international marketplace. I hope that increased scrutiny will benefit the Chinese people as well, who are the ones who suffer the most from these types of incidents.

Personally I don’t plan on boycotting the Olympics. I plan on being there.

May 11, 2007 @ 1:26 am | Comment

This unfortunate incident is typical of the small business mentality under which many Chinese companies operate. Not only is cheating morally indefensible, but it also makes for bad business. Such acts of ‘cleverness’ may have immediate financial payoffs in the short term, but it is incredibly stupid in the long term and hardly what one needs to build a world-class economic powerhouse.

May 11, 2007 @ 6:01 am | Comment

“Nothing China did in the last few year justifies a boycott of the Olympics in Beijing.”

You’re living in a fantasy world.

May 11, 2007 @ 7:31 am | Comment

Carol, I still think you are off-base. The companies that imported the stuff were victims, not accomplices. They got hurt very badly. Remember the example I gave about the meat company that sold trichinosis-contaminated beef? They were closed forever – they were the bad guy. Would you say the supermarkets that ordered the beef should be investigated? I don’t think so. They were simply carrying on business as usual, believing what they bought was safe, as it nearly always is. The importers of the wheat gluten assumed the product they were buying was what it was supposed to be, and presumed it would go through the usual FDA tests. To investigate them seems a bizarre suggestion. Anyway…

Stuart, if we boycott the Olympics for China’s malfeasances, it opens the door for others to do the same in London next time. I thought Jimmy Carter’s boycott of the Soviet games was a big mistake. I really can’t justify a boycott of the Beijing Games. As I said, you can find evil in every government. Let’s hope the games succeed and help push China to clean up its act.

May 11, 2007 @ 12:56 pm | Comment

“I really can’t justify a boycott of the Beijing Games. As I said, you can find evil in every government. Let’s hope the games succeed and help push China to clean up its act.”

Richard, I don’t think there should be a boycott. But I do think the threat of such action, and the games themselves, should be used to pressure China into cleaning up its appalling human rights record.

If we appease every denial and restriction made by the CCP in the run up to Beijing 2008 it will be a gross abdication of responsibility. They made promises (all too often a euphemism for lies when uttered by the Chinese leaders) and should be held accountable for making good their markers.

Further, a ‘successful’ Games for China has nothing to do with Olympic ideals; it’s all about winning most gold medals and asking the world to kowtow and say how great China is. We must also be prepared to point out the flaws, because they’re not about to do it themselves.

Simply reporting on the Games is not an option. When people walk onto the Square next year the madman’s mausoleum shouldn’t be the object of anything but contempt, even ridicule. On a humanistic and compassionate level all thoughts should be with those who perished (and their families) at the hands of the very people too many are bending over backwards to appease.

It can’t be about heralding a new Chinese Empire while meekly accepting the whitewashing of a catalogue of human suffering. It can’t be simply about ‘who wins what’ and ‘what a lovely building.’ For the CCP, it must also be a time of reckoning.

They can have the Games; they can keep the medals. But they can’t have these things without a discussion of the bigger issues. No deal.

May 11, 2007 @ 2:17 pm | Comment

If people want to use the Game to push for positive changes in a meaningful and realistic way, then I am all for it. But people need to understand there is a limit here. The Game means a lot to China; but there are many things that are much much more important to China than the Game itself. So please don’t have the illusion that China is willing to do everything just for the sake of the Game. People should remember the time during the early Clinton Administration year when he stubbornly tried to link the most-favorite-trading-status to China’s human right record and had to back down in the end. Like the US, China is a country with back-bone.

For those people who look for troubles, I am sure there will be some spectacular acts during the Game. China may loose some “face” over it; but think about it, it’ll be a game only, everything will be over in a month.

May 11, 2007 @ 3:09 pm | Comment

Opening up to capitalism was supposed to reform China and that didn’t work, so why not give them the Olympics!

“I really can’t justify a boycott of the Beijing Games. As I said, you can find evil in every government. Let’s hope the games succeed and help push China to clean up its act.”

China should have never received the Olympics on an empty promise. South Africa is much more deserving for peacefully overthrowing apartheid and maintaining democracy, and that part of the world needs and deserves a lot more help than China.

May 11, 2007 @ 4:22 pm | Comment

The same argument had been made about boycotting the Seoul Games in 88 due to human rights abuses of the authoritarian regime at the time. It would be interesting to speculate if South Korea would have democratized as quickly in the 90’s had the Games been successfully boycotted.

May 11, 2007 @ 9:11 pm | Comment

“The same argument had been made about boycotting the Seoul Games in 88 due to human rights abuses of the authoritarian regime at the time.”

There is little comparison between between SK and China. SK up until then had been under a siege mentality thanks to its aggressive northern neighbor and ally of China for 40 years.

May 12, 2007 @ 12:34 am | Comment

Richard, it was me not ferins.

I never said the Chinese market was going to crash. I said China had better be damned careful because this sort of scandal can taint its reputation as a global trader.

No, your exactly words were, “China’s reputation as the global exporter to all the world’s people just suffered a stunning blow..” Not “can”, but rather “did”.

China’s trade surplus as a percentage of the overall GDP, is the largest among all major economies. If its reputation did suffer a major blow, a large number of Chinese companies will have less revenue/profit growth if not negative growth down the road.

Case in point, in the first 2 quarters of 2003, both the Chinese stock markets and the Hong Kong stock market were underperforming compared to other markets due to SARS. Had you known the effect of SARS, a short on the Chinese markets and a long on the overall world market, would have been a decent play.

I think you just didn’t know what you were talking about, instead having some special insight. That’s cool.

May 12, 2007 @ 10:35 am | Comment

JXie, you know the whole theory of the tipping point? I wouldn’t be so certain that you can dismiss the blow that China’s reputation has suffered over this and related scandals. I don’t think it’s going to crash the stock market, but I do think sometimes little things have big impacts because of context, and everything else that’s gone on up to that point.

At the very least, I hope the Chinese government is able to really do what they’ve promised to do in terms of enforcement.

May 12, 2007 @ 2:33 pm | Comment

Otherlisa, first about the incident. Nobody here seems to realize that melamine itself is not considered toxic. Scientists are still working on the theory why the pet food had caused pets’ kidneys to fail. The prevailing belief today is that melamine mixed with other chemicals is the cause. Both the Chinese and American FDAs don’t test melamine in food anyway, so a bigger FDA at either end wouldn’t have prevented this incident from happening, even if the import was properly labeled. The knowledge is gained only through this incident (painful to those pet owners). I doubt food-producing businesses in China or in the US will ever put melamine addictive in food again — it’s just a bad business to kill your customers.

Anyway, get back to the topic in hand. People are stupid, and they don’t want science, facts, and figures. Blaming China (more considerate ones blaming the
“profit-driven” Chinese businessmen plus the incompetent Chinese government) without knowing all the scientific facts, can be quite emotionally satisfactory. It’s conceivable that China’s reputation does take a severe blow, unjustifiably for this incident alone I might add. I certainly am not dismissing its possibility, but rather stress that nobody knows it yet at this stage. If I know it for a fact (before everyone else knowing it), heck I will be the first one to short the Chinese market. I just think Richard didn’t know that either but it didn’t stop him from getting all worked up over this.

BTW, look at how far this topic has branched out (Olympic boycott and all), what a bunch of clowns this site is attracting…

May 12, 2007 @ 5:06 pm | Comment

JXie, I agree with you, except this incident, along with others that hit the news at the same time (the poisoned medicine, for example) points out systemic flaws in China’s food safety and regulatory system. This kind of thing has been going on in China for a while (baby food, squid dyed with calligraphy ink, too much food poisoning to mention) – now, suddenly, there’s an awareness outside of China that you can’t necessarily trust what you’re buying.

I’ve been following the pet food story pretty closely (I have pets), and there is a tremendous amount of anger being expressed at both the FDA and at Chinese imports in general. If you look at my post on the subject below, you’ll see that I have some serious issues with certain aspects of globalization – is it really “cheaper” to buy inferior food products whose safety is dubious at best when the US is one of the richest agricultural nations on the earth?

I think a lot of people are questioning some of the logic behind globalization, and I think you will see an increasing backlash against unrestrained globalization. I’m for globalization but I also feel that the terms on which it’s being conducted are not necessarily beneficial to most people or to the global environment. We need to start factoring in other sorts of costs when we consider what’s “economical” and what isn’t – some sort of carbon tax might be a good place to start.

May 12, 2007 @ 5:24 pm | Comment

“Nobody here seems to realize that melamine itself is not considered toxic. Scientists are still working on the theory why the pet food had caused pets’ kidneys to fail.”

In larger amounts it is, when combined with cyanuric acid the product is highly toxic. These companies were introducing the chemicals in large enough amounts to effectively not have to use any real protein in their food products.

“People are stupid, and they don’t want science, facts, and figures. Blaming China (more considerate ones blaming the
“profit-driven” Chinese businessmen plus the incompetent Chinese government) without knowing all the scientific facts, can be quite emotionally satisfactory.”

And Chinese immigrants to the US are shaking their heads at the whole world being exposed to what’s been going on in China for decades. What do you know about science jxie? We can talk about China’s pumping of mercury, lead and organic chemicals if you like. Bad China.

“It’s conceivable that China’s reputation does take a severe blow, unjustifiably for this incident alone I might add”
Add in Darfur, execution buses, Tibet, Taiwan, E. Turkmenistan, pollution that is spilling over to China’s neighbors (satellites can track mercury, lead and organic emissions from China across the pacific and the sandstorms that sweep over S Korea, Japan and Taiwan) and I’d say that China does not nor ever did deserve the Olympics.
Instead of trying to solve problems, Beijing engages in distraction (other countries have problems too) and blame (the foreigners made us do it!).

Lisa, did you ever work in SH at the company that handled the promotions and ticketing for the Shanghai Master’s Cup?

May 13, 2007 @ 12:44 am | Comment

Nan, no I didn’t. I lived in Beijing a number of years ago. Have visited Shanghai recently a few times though – was in both Beijing and Shanghai earlier this year in fact.

May 13, 2007 @ 6:08 am | Comment

Gosh, When will these bastards learn no to lie!

http://main.tianya.cn/publicforum/Content/free/1/906650.shtml

May 13, 2007 @ 12:53 pm | Comment

The Bush Admiminstration would read the comments above and laugh. After all, all the food served in the White House and certainly served in the houses of the ruchest 5% is organic. And, why stir up the issue ? We need to have the evil Chinese buy are giant US government credit card debt. So, deny, deny and deny folks. Its all a game. Who gives a damn that the cancer rate is soaring ? Can’t pin it on us. So we crawl to the end in another respect. The legacy of eight years of Bush and Company is that one day you will likely either die of a nuclear blast or cancer. That is for sure. Think about it.

May 18, 2007 @ 1:12 pm | Comment