Everytime this kind of thing happens, they call him a ” psycho”. LOL

May 14, 2007 @ 12:59 am | Comment

If a man go to Washington DC, and threw a burning object onto the face of Lincoln in the Lincoln Memorial, or onto the Washington Monument, and it left a big burning mark on it. What is the legal result for that guy in the US? If you tell me, I will tell the CCP to do the same to that guy in Tiananmen. You always want the CCP to copy the US legal system, so why not start with this example?

May 14, 2007 @ 1:38 am | Comment

High five to my boy Gu Hai’ou!
We all know who the real psychos are.

May 14, 2007 @ 2:32 am | Comment

What I found most amazing about this incident is that most of the Chinese responses online still think Mao is a great guy. I mean Mao’s culture revolution killed millions and delayed China’s development by at least 30 years. He is more like Stalin than Lenin (actaully Lenin is not much better either).

I will tell the CCP to do the same to that guy in Tiananmen. You always want the CCP to copy the US legal system, so why not start with this example

You do know vadalisim in US are consider misdemeanor or 6th degree felony. Rarely people go to jail for it. Most likely all the vadals have to do are paying for the repair cost. I can bet you that the guy will suffer worse than just getting fined.

May 14, 2007 @ 4:04 am | Comment

Hongxing,

The relevant regulation applicable for defacing government property like the Lincoln Memorial:

1666 Destruction of Government Property — 18 U.S.C. ? 1361

According to the description for this regulation, the penalties are as follows:

The penalties for violations of this section are tied to the extent of the property damage. As amended on September 13, 1994, if the damage exceeds $100, the defendant is subject to a fine of up to $250,000, ten years imprisonment, or both. See Violent Crime Control and Law Enforcement Act of 1994, Pub. L. 103-322, ? 330016, 108 Stat. 1796, 2146-47 (1994). When property damage does not exceed $100, the offense is a misdemeanor punishable by a fine of up to $100,000, one year imprisonment, or both. See 18 U.S.C. ?? 3559(a), 3571.

source: US Attorneys Criminal Resource Manual – http://www.usdoj.gov/usao/eousa/foia_reading_room/usam/title9/crm01666.htm

Given that the Lincoln Memorial and Washington Monument are made of marble, burn marks would probably cost over $100 to repair. That does not mean the vandal would get 10 years in jail and a $250,000 fine. Punishment is commensurate with the amount of damage. In any case, the maximum sentence is 10 years. The poor fellow who threw eggs at Mao’s portrait back in 1989 got 17 years. I have heard that there is a stockpile of 16 extra Mao portraits in storage, so they can’t be that expensive to make.

Pssst, Hongxing, I have a great idea. If you’re ever in the States, why don’t you throw a lit cigarette at Lincoln’s statue and let us know what happens.

May 14, 2007 @ 4:28 am | Comment

“That does not mean the vandal would get 10 years in jail and a $250,000 fine. Punishment is commensurate with the amount of damage. In any case, the maximum sentence is 10 years.”

You think if today if you throw a burning object at Lincoln Memorial and leave a burnmark, you will only receive some fine? Hahaha, you are too simple, sometimes naive.

The US government will of course bring some terrorism charge against that guy, and he will be described as a terrorist on all the conservative TV’s, especially if he is an arab or immigrant. Let me ask you, why do you think the Patriot Act was passed and renewed, do most Americans support this Patriot Act? If not, why does Congress renew this? I thought Congress should represent the majority opinion of the population.

May 14, 2007 @ 4:40 am | Comment

That portrait is a national symbol for China, as much as the Lincoln memorial is for the United States. The Chinese “gut” would probably go with a harsh sentence on this guy, and I don’t blame them.

May 14, 2007 @ 5:18 am | Comment

“Given that the Lincoln Memorial and Washington Monument are made of marble, burn marks would probably cost over $100 to repair”

Given that they are made of marble, soapy water and a brush would repair and “damage”. You’d need a hand grenade to dent either.

Before Tiananmen, an elderly man spent close to 15 years in prison for throwing an egg at Mao’s big ugly picture.

May 14, 2007 @ 5:26 am | Comment

they should take it down and set it on fire.

May 14, 2007 @ 5:33 am | Comment

Arty

You know I saw the strangest thing recently, when browsing the Chinadaily BBS for my dose of daily fun. One of the moderators actually said he/she regarded Mao to be a tyrant (70% bad, 30% good) and that Deng Xiaoping’s portrait should be up there instead.

I thought that interesting because recently Mao has had a sort of a “comeback”, especially amongst dissidents. I wonder if in the future he will be disowned by the Party because of people trying to use his name to complain about officials and politicians.

May 14, 2007 @ 7:28 am | Comment

“You think if today if you throw a burning object at Lincoln Memorial and leave a burnmark, you will only receive some fine? Hahaha, you are too simple, sometimes naive.”

Please do a little googling and cite some REAL examples of people receiving long prison sentences for defacing the images of government leaders. Otherwise, STFU.

“That portrait is a national symbol for China, as much as the Lincoln memorial is for the United States. The Chinese “gut” would probably go with a harsh sentence on this guy, and I don’t blame them.”

The man was alleged to be mentally disturbed. In the US, insanity is a legal defense. Seung-hui Cho murdered 32 people and then killed himself. Since he’s dead, he can’t be tried, but there were gestures of forgiveness amongst VT students. A mentally ill man who tried to burn US government property would be sent to a hospital not a prison. Do Chinese have any compassion in their guts for the mentally ill?

May 14, 2007 @ 8:36 am | Comment

“You always want the CCP to copy the US legal system, so why not start with this example?”

Who said that on the Peking Duck? I’m seriously interested. Once more, I want to suggest that Red Star gets the “comedian of the month medal”. He really deserves it.

May 14, 2007 @ 9:09 am | Comment

“Pssst, Hongxing, I have a great idea. If you’re ever in the States, why don’t you throw a lit cigarette at Lincoln’s statue and let us know what happens.”

Good idea. I’ll try the same with Mao’s portrait and you can visit me in my new home in Qinghai.

“The Chinese “gut” would probably go with a harsh sentence on this guy, and I don’t blame them.”

t_co, please tell me what the Chinese “gut” is, I’m burning to know.

May 14, 2007 @ 9:16 am | Comment

being able to freely criticize mao would be progress, as they could convey some complaints about the current government with that.

May 14, 2007 @ 10:10 am | Comment

“You think if today if you throw a burning object at Lincoln Memorial and leave a burnmark, you will only receive some fine? Hahaha, you are too simple, sometimes naive.”

In California if you kill someone and plead guilty, you can literally walk out of jail within 5 years because there is no mendatory minimum. People rarely go to jail for vadalisim in the US.

May 14, 2007 @ 10:37 am | Comment

t_co, don’t make me barf.
tiananmen square is also a national symbol.
quite funny isn’t it, how it’s ok to spill the blood of innocent young people in the symbolic center of the nation…
and yet you get all worked up when someone tosses a flaming piece of paper at an old sexually perverted tyrant’s portrait. then it’s time for the heavy hand of the law to crack down, right?
i’d recommend saving your outrage for real causes. otherwise the “nation” that your symbol symbolizes will be in deep shit.

May 14, 2007 @ 10:50 am | Comment

@Red Star: Thanks for perpetuating the rumour that Chinese netizens are nothing but defensive nationalists that can do nothing but whinge that “the same thing happens in America, so it’s ok for us to do it too.”

I think we can all agree that America has a plethora of its own problems, and despite being one of the most acclaimed blogs about China, Richard still does his part to point out the shortcomings of his nation here.

This has been said 10,000 times on TPD, but not yet by me, so: As intelligent (or in my case, semi-intelligent) global citizens, we’ve every right to criticize any country, culture or circumstance that degrades the human condition. This is all inclusive, and not limited in any way to China.

However, should Chinese refuse to see this for what it is, and only feel they must blindly defend the “honour” of their homeland, they’re completely missing the point of critical thought.

If we waited for every citizen to clean up their own backyard before criticizing another’s, there would be no standard to compare to, and everyone would just wallow in the shadow of a Utopian society.

We bitch about injustice not because we wish to insult China, or indeed any nationality, but because injustice needs to be criticized.

We all must maintain a view of what is “right”, and not let petty national pride stand in the way of a greater good for humanity overall. Festering wounds need exposure to open air if they are to heal.

May 14, 2007 @ 10:53 am | Comment

What and where is the relevant regulation for defacing government property in China? I ask this as a genuine question, not a rhetorical question.

May 14, 2007 @ 12:47 pm | Comment

Humanaught

I like this word “plethora”

May 14, 2007 @ 2:04 pm | Comment

“They should take it down and set it on fire.”

You’ve surprised me with that one. Unless you’re referring to the Lincoln Memorial, that is.

May 14, 2007 @ 2:39 pm | Comment

Hong Xing,

An experiment:

I’ll stand on the Mall in Washington DC, Lafayette Park, or wherever you want and yell “Free California, Let’s give San Diego back to Mexico!” at the top of my lungs interpolating with “Impeach Bush and the Republican Party!”

You stand in Tiananmen Square and yell “Free Tibet!” interpolating “Impeach Hu and the CCP” at the top of your lungs.

Let’s see who lasts longer.

May 14, 2007 @ 2:43 pm | Comment

“If a man…threw a burning object onto the face of Lincoln…What is the legal result for that guy in the US?”

No surprises with this reply, though.

If you think 17 years and incessant physical and psychological torment is the least this guy deserves, then I assume you would be happy to administer the punishment yourself. Would I be right HX?

May 14, 2007 @ 2:49 pm | Comment

In our weekly discussion of ‘what’s been in the news’, today’s class immediately raised the desecration of Mao’s portrait. If they hadn’t, I would have.

A few weeks ago we discussed the case of the Swiss guy who was jailed for ten years for defacing the King’s image with a magic marker. Everyone was shocked at the sentence, which led me to ask what would happen to me if I defaced Mao’s image in the same way.

My students were generally of the opinion that I would be required to apologise, perhaps fined, but that common sense would prevail and I wouldn’t have to do a decade of re-education.

Today, after they raised the issue, I asked what would happen to Gu Hai’ou. My students believed he would be imprisoned, but could not agree for how long. Only one thought that this was a capital offence. Then I reminded them that the Swiss guy received a royal pardon after only two weeks in jail.

Attitudes changed when I told them that Gu was apparently mentally unstable. Hospital treatment was then suggested as a sensible alternative. This was the moment that I told them Yu Dongyue’s story. They were genuinely shocked. One observed that perhaps it would be better for Gu if he really is psychollogically disturbed.

After that the conversation was all about Tiananmen. Their choice, not mine.

It’s encouraging to see their level of interest in knowing what really happened in ’89, and the awareness that the party line of ‘necessary action against troublemakers’ is utter bullshit (my description, not theirs).

May 14, 2007 @ 3:36 pm | Comment

Such good comments – thanks guys. Don’t try to talk sense into Red Star. He’s either deranged or just having fun. I’d love to see his response to Jeremiah’s suggestion, or his counter to Humanaught’s very rational argument. But I’m not holding my breath.

Stuart, that’s a great story.

May 14, 2007 @ 6:40 pm | Comment

who is “red star���� who are you guys talking about?

May 14, 2007 @ 6:45 pm | Comment

“����”—-I don’t know what happened there, these strange characters were not supposed to be there.

May 14, 2007 @ 6:46 pm | Comment

To be desecrated it first must be consecrated- hallowed , sacred. Hardly the stuff one would accuse the CCP of upholding.

May 14, 2007 @ 6:50 pm | Comment

Humanaught,
Would you say there a “plethora of Piñatas in China??” 😉
From one of the greatest movies ever!

May 14, 2007 @ 8:03 pm | Comment

Humanaught,

Hear! Hear!

May 14, 2007 @ 8:47 pm | Comment

Actually, Lincoln’s Tomb was vandalized with spray paint three times in ten years. One case. No one seems to have felt it warranted very serious punishment.

Michael

May 14, 2007 @ 11:34 pm | Comment

Ha ha its funny cause its so obvious that Hong Xing (red star) has some messed up brainwashed ulterior motive (since he so stronly defending bulloney stuff) But if he is a spy worker for the party, his efforts reap the opposite result that he aims for. He aims to sway the opinions from truth to propaganda, thats the mission of the CCP, but in trying to fool people all he does is make a fool of himself, so he actually benefits the “dissident” or truth movement.

I’m not disrespecting him as a person, just his profession, or maladie, commie religion, zealotry… whichever it may be.

There might be mild brainwashing in America, but you wont be tortured and terrorized to the point of turning all messed up like in China for going against the party line.

America is not a nation that threatens people harshly and strictly restricts their freedom. America is no paradise but you can at least say the truth there without getting you face burned off. You can believe in what you want and wont be treated to massive hate campaign by the govt’s mechanism of mind control (ok maybe the Islamic people are treated suspiciously but thats nothing compared to the way the “balck classes. or dissidents” are treated by the CCP and its lackies.

Whoever compares Chinas tyranny with the Bush admin, should first know a little about Chinas evil genocidal ideology before they make such a ridiculous comparison.

May 15, 2007 @ 12:33 am | Comment

“Whoever compares Chinas tyranny with the Bush admin, should first know a little about Chinas evil genocidal ideology before they make such a ridiculous comparison.”

How many countries has China invaded in the last 8 years? Today’s China isn’t Mao’s China.. thank god.

May 15, 2007 @ 7:16 am | Comment

“How many countries has China invaded in the last 8 years?”

More pertinently, how many will they invade in the future as they seek to ‘settle’ old scores and disputes?

May 15, 2007 @ 9:37 am | Comment

“How many countries has China invaded in the last 8 years? Today’s China isn’t Mao’s China.. thank god.”

and compare that with how many countries the US has claimed as “its” territory.

3 for China (that I can think of) and 0 for the US.

May 15, 2007 @ 9:56 am | Comment

“3 for China (that I can think of) and 0 for the US”

Type in US territory in google, you will find 16 US territories. Pureto Rico, Guam, Northern Mariana islands, and US Virgin Islands are all big enough to be a country of its own with their own native inhabitans. And don’t forget Panama Canal zone (we gave back in 1999), and The Guantanamo Bay Naval Base, Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, that we still have.

In addition, current US were taken from multitude of Native American Indian tribes/nations after we kill them either by force or gave them smallpox.

May 15, 2007 @ 11:05 am | Comment

“How many countries has China invaded in the last 8 years? Today’s China isn’t Mao’s China.. thank god.”

It seems like about half the countries in the world have done something like takeover and every country has been in some kind of war, so for this issue of invasion, its not pertinent to compare US and China.

But what other country is so bloody evil that it has a policy of weeding out random groups in brutal taorturous ways in order to create “stability” ei, terror, ei submission.

Countries have their wars and tussles with other territories, but the thing thats “special” about China is that they fear free thinking so extremely that they are willing to mass murder their own people and order to force the people to accept them. They also use lies to a point that is evil.

Find me any other country in history that is as bad as China in this evil way. Who demeans its own people so extremely? Who brainwashes so shamelessly? Who uses the population as tools so zealously?

The CCP is the one.

May 15, 2007 @ 12:18 pm | Comment

What was really fundamental was a comment from another thread about how the CCP makes the people believe theres no difference between good and bad.

This is relevant not only in China but most severely in china.

The Mao poster incident illustrates this well. Under the propaganda state of CCP China, a big old poster od Donald duck could be up there and with the amount of brainwashing, the Chinese people would feel just as patriotic about the duck guy.

Bad example replace duck with idonno joe the serial rapist baby eater, the way the Chinese are brainwashed, if that person was propped up by the prop department, then they would all worship. Thats cause the CCP has made them not know that there exists a difference between good and bad.

Joe the … could rape the whole village and kill half of Chinese people but if Jo gave CCP lackies a few Yuan, theyd be worshipping him, thats the way the absolute materialism taught by the CCP works, anything for the party. ANYTHING

Sadly the people will have turned evil for actually no reason, they thought the CCPs evil would pay off in the end but it wont. You dont get good things by being evil.

May 15, 2007 @ 12:25 pm | Comment

@Canrun: “Jefe, what is a plethora?” 😉

May 15, 2007 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

To me, the most interesting thing about this story is the fact that it is being reported at all. What does it say about press freedom in China?

There have always been folks speaking out against Mao and the cult of Mao. What does it mean that it’s being reported in the national media?

I think that’s a big deal that is going unappreciated in the western media reports I’ve seen. It certainly isn’t being remarked upon in the blogs.

May 15, 2007 @ 8:57 pm | Comment

I started to be taught how great Mao is since the primary school. The ironic thing is that the education system also got me to realise how great the damages are he did to the Chinese people and culture. I hope to see some day in China Mao can be officially judged by the crimes he committed and his face can be removed from the square forever. That is also the day the people in China have the right and freedom of speech.

May 16, 2007 @ 2:37 am | Comment

“I think that’s a big deal that is going unappreciated in the western media reports I’ve seen. It certainly isn’t being remarked upon in the blogs.
“

The highly unusual incident occurred in a very busy area, so keeping mum about what happened would fuel rumors.

May 16, 2007 @ 7:08 am | Comment

I agree with Sonagi, the CCP’s specialty is thought manipulation so they are not stupid when it comes to making people believe in their “new improved, reformed image”.

Back in the Mao time, the people were very naive, they would believe blatant lies, but now the CCP is not trusted easily and so they have to be a lot craftier to create an image of nobility. Its all part of the plan.

If you think things have gotten better in terms of repression of thought and media, check the Falun Gong issue etc, thats why the CCP totally blocks any info on Falun Gong in China, cause it is clear evidence that the CCP has not changed at all.

May 16, 2007 @ 11:41 am | Comment

Good! Cheers to the fellow who burnt that tyrant’s portrait of that hanjian who killed 30 million of his people.

I have long said that only Dr Sun’s portrait should be displayed on Tiananmen Square. He is the father of China. Mao is a hanjian! One more day of his being in Tiananmen means one more day of humiliation for the Chinese people!

Burning his portrait is not enough. They should take Mao corpse out and whip him. They should build a statute of Mao kneeling in the Square and let every Chinese spit at him.

Finally, they should dynamite his evil mausoleum. In its place, they should build a national shrine for martyrs who had sacrificed their lives in the 1911 revolution and those who die fighting the Japanese.

Only then can the Chinese nation be appeased.

Long Live the Republic of China!

May 17, 2007 @ 3:32 am | Comment

@Hong Xing

“The US government will of course bring some terrorism charge against that guy, and he will be described as a terrorist on all the conservative TV’s, especially if he is an arab or immigrant. Let me ask you, why do you think the Patriot Act was passed and renewed, do most Americans support this Patriot Act? If not, why does Congress renew this? I thought Congress should represent the majority opinion of the population.”

Simple. Mao himself was a terrorist. He was the evil terrorist of the Chinese nation, who would kill millions of Chinese for one aim: to keep himself in power as the Red Emperor.

May 17, 2007 @ 3:36 am | Comment

@t_co

“That portrait is a national symbol for China, as much as the Lincoln memorial is for the United States. The Chinese “gut” would probably go with a harsh sentence on this guy, and I don’t blame them.”

Mao’s portrait a national symbol for China? Those who think are spineless Maoists. Obviously, you loved that butcher of China more than your tongbao!

If you still think Mao’s potrait is China’s national symbol, then in Chinese saying, you are “recognizing a bandit as your father”, “认贼作父”!
Shame on you!

三民主義万岁！天佑中華！
We must carry to fulfill Dr Sun’s vision and legacy!

May 17, 2007 @ 3:50 am | Comment

And one more thing, having the evil Mao mausoleum and his portrait in the heart of Beijing is like having the Yasunkuni Shrine right in the heart of Beijing!

May Mao burn in hell forever and forever! So many people lost their parentsm, children, grandparents, siblings, uncles, aunts from 1957-1976. (From the evil “Anti-Rightist Movement” to “Great Leap Forward” to “Cultural Revolution”)

May 17, 2007 @ 4:01 am | Comment

I think the insinuation that Linclon was a great guy is a bit convienent.

Why wouldn’t it be reasonable for someont to lament the violent revocation of the confederacy’s right to self-determination and desecrated the Linclon memorial?

And should he, should he act out, be subjected to relevant US laws? Or should the Chinese have any authority to judge his punishment based on their opinion of the US Civil War and weither Linclon was a great guy?

May 18, 2007 @ 6:27 am | Comment

BTW, someone asked for the cinged Mao portrait, here it is:

http://www.wlzb.net/phpwind/read.php?tid-66949.html

Additional Baidu search results on the story:

http://www.baidu.com/s?cl=3&wd=%D0%C2%BD%AE+%CC%EC%B0%B2%C3%C5+%C3%AB%D4%F3%B6%AB+%CF%F1

May 19, 2007 @ 1:51 am | Comment