Last week I got a call from a local radio station that said they wanted to interview me about expat bloggers in China. I went to their studio to tape the interview, and when I was asked what I thought about life in China today, I said, more or less, “Considering where China was thirty years ago, after the Cultural Revolution, the progress that’s been made is nothing short of astonishing.” And on and on. After the 30-minute taping, the reporter told me how good my answers were (so polite), and noted matter-of-factly, “Of course, we’ll have to cut out that sentence where you mention the Cultural Revolution.”
This was a bit surprising since I hadn’t made any statement about the CR itself, but simply used it as a reference, a point in time. The most that could be inferred from what I’d said would be that a.) the Cultural Revolution existed and b.) since it ended much in China has changed. Now, those aren’t exactly state secrets – in fact, those are commonly heard talking points among party defenders. So why the censorship?
Which brings us to this short but worthwhile article , the main point of which is that the CCP’s policy when it comes to the CR is omerta. Like it never happened. Here’s how the article starts.
“What is your name?” the Great Helmsman asked a young student as she pinned a Red Guard armband on him in front of the Gate of Heavenly Peace. “Song Binbin,” she responded enthusiastically. The name her parents chose meant “properly raised” and “polite,” qualities that Mao Zedong found unappealing. “Be violent!” he ordered the girl. A short time later she changed her first name to Yaowu, or “Be Violent.”
It was Aug. 18, 1966 and the 72-year-old Chinese leader had called male and female students to assemble on Beijing’s Square of Heavenly Peace to launch his Great Proletarian Cultural Revolution. Hundreds of thousands waved Mao’s little red book and cheered the old man.
Mao’s call to violence fell on willing ears among many young people. Thirteen days earlier Song, 19 at the time, was presumably present when the female students at her school, which was part of the Beijing Teachers University, killed their teacher, Bian Zhongyun. The girls brutally beat the 50-year-old woman to death using wooden sticks spiked with nails. On the day before the killing, members of the Red Guard had already maltreated the teacher, who was the party leader at the school — they suddenly viewed her as a “counter-revolutionary revisionist” who they believed had gambled away her life.
The rest of the article is about the denial of history that became the party line after the CR ended. A film about Bian’s murder was recently banned in China and a request to hang a memorial plaque in her schoolyard denied. I suppose the fact that the film maker merely had his work banned and wasn’t arrested is proof of progress of sorts, but it’s a pity the party can’t face up to its own past. We all know what Santayana had to say about forgetting the past….
1
By shulan
The party still claims the right to define how history is interpreted. This won’t change in the near future, I am certain. As long as the party holds the monopoly on power it will keep the monopoly on the definition of most of history
Here is a speech by Perry Link about changes of the situation of the press in China in the last 30 years that summs it up quite well, I think. His thesis ist that there are soft topics like sports, culture and so on which you are free to say whatever you like, which are free for discussion in society. But there are some hard topics which are important for the parties own legitimacy that are out of bounds. History is one of these hard topics.
As someone once said: Who has the power to controll history, controlls the future.
May 17, 2007 @ 6:34 pm | Comment
2
By David
Yeah, I’d have said “since the beginning of Reforming and Opening.” But I’m a big fat Sinopologist, so what do I know?
Somebody else said “History is written by the winners.” Q.E.D.
May 17, 2007 @ 6:40 pm | Comment
3
By sp
Let us pray for all those who had lost their lives during the Red Emperor’s reign. Mao and his yes-men would all burn in hell for their crimes against the Chinese people.
For those who keep defending the Communists and Mao such as Hong Xing, I wonder how you guys can sleep tight at night being the mouthpieces and puppets of these murderers and butchers.
If you Maoists have a slight bit of human conscience as a Chinese, you would stop defending an evil ruler who built his throne on heaps of skeletons of his own people.
自由、平等、博愛– 中華民國國父孫文
May 17, 2007 @ 6:44 pm | Comment
4
By sp
毛澤東– 華夏民族的劊子手！
May 17, 2007 @ 7:05 pm | Comment
5
By stuart
“The party still claims the right to define how history is interpreted.”
…but still find time to scold others for ‘denying’ history. Or do they mean deny THEIR version of history? Either way, the party, as ever, is guilty of gross hypocrisy.
The article, short though it is, evokes some truly desperate images of life in China during the madness of the CR (which never happened).
May 17, 2007 @ 7:07 pm | Comment
6
By sp
Whenever those CCP leaders went to evil Mao’s mausoleum to pay respects to their totalitarian dead old ancestor, they are stepping on the dignity of the Chinese people. Its as good as paying respect at the Yasukuni Shrine.
Imagine the German Chancellor leading his cabinet to pay respects to Hitler.
May 17, 2007 @ 7:15 pm | Comment
7
By richard
Yes, but sp, Americans killed a lot of Indians two hundred years ago, so it’s amazing that we can sleep at night, too. Or so the argument with Red Star always goes.
David, I can’t log onto your site. Did you say something offensive recently?
Shulan, that analysis of China’s media is accurate, though I can’t access the link you provided. Not 100 percent (some vertical pubs manage to go quite far in criticizing the government, but no one reads them). But we’ve all seen the same pattern for years – dramatic liberalization of social reporting, limited to zero progress when it comes to political reporting…
May 17, 2007 @ 8:18 pm | Comment
8
By Matt Schiavenza
It’s very strange, Richard, that they’d be so sensitive about your use of the CR as a reference. From my experience, the Chinese are quite candid about discussing the Cultural Revolution itself, and few have anything good to say about it (though most stop short of dumping on Mao). I had thought the line you couldn’t cross was criticizing the Mao and the party, but apparently it includes references to the CR as well. Odd.
Or maybe your line was censored because they’re very, very, very sensitive about references to the CR from foreigners. Who knows?
May 17, 2007 @ 8:25 pm | Comment
9
By richard
Matt, a friend of mine who’s been here much longer than I told me this was absolutely standard. I don’t know – I was totally surprised.
May 17, 2007 @ 8:45 pm | Comment
10
By shulan
I forgot this is a link to bad radio free asia, Richard. Anyway, his point is that you won’t see changes in freedom when it comes to those hard topics in the comming years. It’s a tool of power the CCP won’t give up.
May 17, 2007 @ 9:02 pm | Comment
11
By schtickyrice
Discussion on the CR was only encouraged briefly in the late 70’s and early 80’s to demonize the Gang of Four and consolidate Deng Xiaoping & Co. ‘s hold on power. The party line is to lay all blame on the Gang of Four and absolve the reinstated party bureaucracy of any complicity in the CR.
What the CCP is whitewashing, and the foreign media has uncritically bought into, is the complicity of the CCP establishment, including many of those in power today, in the CR.
The Red Guards who killed the teacher in the example above are the “Old Red Guards”, composed mainly of the priviledged sons and daughters of high ranking CCP cadres. The old Red Guards were formed in the elite schools with the support of CR Working Groups that controlled the campuses and work units in Beijing, and eventually the rest of the country.
In fact, it was Wang Guangmei, wife of Mao’s political arch enemy Liu Shaoqi, who led the CR Working Group at Tsinghua University and persecuted hundreds of students and faculty as counter-revolutionaries.
While the CCP establishment actively participated in the CR as in previous political purges, Mao soon turned the tables on them and proceeded to use the anti-establishment sentiments against the Working Groups to mobilize and encourage ‘Rebel’ groups to seize power and overthrow the CCP establishment on campuses and work units.
The ‘Rebel’ Red Guards are composed mostly of the politically persecuted underclass and lower ranks of society that responded to the anti-establishment battle cries of the Mao’s CR.
While the ‘Rebel’ Red Guards were responsible for inter-faction violence and persecution of the pre-CR CCP establishment, it is a gross injustice and great distortion of history to lay all blame on the ‘Rebel’ Red Guards while the ‘Old Red Guards’ get off scott free and assume the reigns of power as their CCP establishment parents gradually retire. This is precisely why the CCP does not want to re-open this sore issue. China was never allowed to have a collective, national re-examination of the CR and learn from history.
The CCP is waiting for the collective memories of the CR to die with those who lived through it. With their deaths, there will be no one left to challenge the offical party line regarding the CR. It is a shame that the Western media is playing along to the official CCP party line in its simplistic portrayal of the CR.
May 17, 2007 @ 9:48 pm | Comment
12
By Dennis
Chinese value stability above all else. They are afraid that if they honestly face the brutal past, they will get massive unrest. I can’t say that I blame them for this approach. After all, this period of stability yields the greatest improvement in living standards in Chinese history. On the other hand, look what is happening in Iraq, pure chaos. I will give them time to face up to the past because I believe they earn the right to postpone the past examination. It will take a long time but hey it took the US 100 years to get rid of slavery after the founding of the Republic.
May 17, 2007 @ 11:31 pm | Comment
13
By nanheyangrouchuan
Dennis,
Even slavery’s evils did not involve whipping people up into whirlwinds of hatred. Remember, the PLA had to stop the Red Guards, the movement had become a self-feeding cycle of suspicion, hatred and violence. Nazi Germany is the only other society in recent history I can think of where such a large number of people where persuaded to hate their fellow countrymen based merely on suspicion.
Mao probably would have had his way with Sun BinBin behind closed doors but she was too old.
May 18, 2007 @ 12:29 am | Comment
14
By fatbrick
Good for you. Publicity is always good. It can give you some power to do some real work.
May 18, 2007 @ 12:36 am | Comment
15
By snow
You live in the Propaganda Departments Republic of “China”
Every media peice has propaganda behind it. When they allow some talks about Cultural revolution it’s always for a reason. In this peice they did with you, it did not suit the purpose, for this they wanted to show the people that even foreigners support the CCP and are brainwashed. This helps the CCP create a wider fake reality, it makes the people think they are not being fooled as much, or gets them all giddy to think that foreigners are under the spell of the CCP. Quite disgusting.
Taking out the bit about the Cultural revolution your comment is “:the progress that’s been made is nothing short of astonishing” and that is what they want.
If they allow any negative stuff its so that the people will feel they need the CCP to fix the problem thats why negative stuff is allowed sometimes, but they do not want the negative stuff looking like they caused it, oh no, it should be the people who are buffoons who need a punk like the CCP to keep them in line, or they cook up some issue like Taiwan to divert the people from the real problem, them.
May 18, 2007 @ 12:37 am | Comment
16
By 88
>>They are afraid that if they honestly face the brutal past, they will get massive unrest.
When a ruling party can’t survive the truth, you would think that should be a sign that it shouldn’t survive it.
Nod to Godwin: Most people seem to forget that there was another country that hatched an “economic miracle” in the 1930’s. While most of the world was mired in depression, Germany became the economic powerhouse of Europe. For a brief period, Fascism “worked.” It delivered the goods, while liberal democracies floundered.
What does this mean? Maybe it means man does not live by bread alone. Or maybe it means if the DPRK had the world’s highest standard of living, I’d still call it a dictatorship that should be overthrown. Or maybe it means economic success shouldn’t be the chief criterion in judging a government. I realize this is the ultimate heresy, especially in relation to China.
Regarding the CCP or anything else, you either believe that the end justifies the means or you don’t.
May 18, 2007 @ 12:41 am | Comment
17
By snow
“””””””””””””””””They take their information from the official media, supplemented by rumor and “political education” in the schools. As a result, much of what they believe is false. They have the utmost difficulty in grasping this, though, since everyone else they know believes the same things.
Take, for example, the terrible famine of 1959-61-the Mao famine, to give it its proper name. This was the greatest human calamity of the 20th century, excepting only World War II. Somewhere between 25 and 30 million people died. The causes of the famine are not in serious dispute. The policies of the Chinese Communist party, under the leadership of Mao Tse-tung, brought about the whole disaster, and then prolonged it unnecessarily. British Sinologist Jasper Becker has written a fine book, Hungry Ghosts, setting out the details. For the Communist party of today, the famine presents a serious image problem. They can hardly pretend it didn’t happen. Everybody in China knows it happened: Any Chinese person over the age of thirty can tell you a famine story, either from his own experience or transmitted from older family members. The task for the government’s propaganda department has been to absolve the party of all responsibility, to place the blame for the catastrophe elsewhere, preferably on foreigners. This has now been done, with total success. Ask a Chinese person about the causes of the famine and you will hear some variant of the following tale: “After Liberation [i.e., the Communist takeover in 1949], Chairman Mao asked the Russians to help us reconstruct. Soon, however, he saw that they did not really want to help us, they wanted to dominate us. So he asked them to leave. The Russians demanded immediate repayment of all their loans, and repatriation of, or payment for, all the equipment they had installed. They threatened war if this was not done. To spare the nation this war, and to save the national honor, Chairman Mao called on the people to make great sacrifices. Unfortunately, this came at a time of adverse weather conditions . . .”
There is, of course, not a shred of truth in this account. It is, however, believed by all Chinese people, and appears in high-school history textbooks. Note that the fable not only absolves Mao and his party of all guilt, it even presents the whole ghastly incident as a triumph of national integrity. And this last point-bringing in the matter of national honor-is the stroke of true genius in this little propaganda masterwork.””””””””””””””””
To read the rest of this good article:
http://yellowsnowstar.spaces.live.com/
May 18, 2007 @ 12:43 am | Comment
18
By fatbrick
88, utimately if people do learn from the history, the history will not happen again. So you can save the Nazi arguement.
May 18, 2007 @ 12:57 am | Comment
19
By 88
>>utimately if people do learn from the history, the history will not happen again.
I have seen no evidence over the past 10,000 years to suggest that most people learn anything from history.
In any case, I’m not sure what that has to do with my point.
May 18, 2007 @ 1:01 am | Comment
20
By Arty
Yes, but sp, Americans killed a lot of Indians two hundred years ago, so it’s amazing that we can sleep at night, too. Or so the argument with Red Star always goes.
Of course we can, 70% of us can’t even point out Canada on a map.
Even slavery’s evils did not involve whipping people up into whirlwinds of hatred.
Ever heard of Jim Crow; oh wait they didn’t really whip them, they just lynch them.
May 18, 2007 @ 1:49 am | Comment
21
By Dennis
88,
It is people like you that give liberals a bad name. Your judgement is so simplistic, it is either good or evil. Pal, the world is often a shape of gray. The comparison between Nazi Germany and the present day China is totally laughable. In Nazi Germany, while the living standard had improved, people’s freedom had decreased. While in present day China, both living standards and freedom have increased. Just witness how people have the freedom of travel and freedom to live where they please ( if they can afford it). Despite what the liberals say, Chinese political freedom has increased as well. Yes, there are still political oppression, but if you write things that the Communists don’t like, they just don’t allow you to publish it instead of locking you up (I know, there are some exceptions). China is definitely moving in the right direction and it wouldn’t surprise me if in twenty years, China will be come a full fledge democracy that even a liberal like you can recognize. We just need to give the Chinese more time afterall, we denied our women the right to vote for over a hundred years.
May 18, 2007 @ 1:53 am | Comment
22
By fatbrick
88, I just want to say that 1930’s Nazi is really irrevalant here. That’s all.
May 18, 2007 @ 1:56 am | Comment
23
By Josh
Wow. Is there a corollary to Godwin’s Law that involves somebody saying, “you give liberals a bad name?”
May 18, 2007 @ 2:19 am | Comment
24
By 88
>>It is people like you that give liberals a bad name.
Good. Because I’m not a “liberal.”
>>The comparison between Nazi Germany and the present day China is totally laughable.
What a predictable misreading of what I wrote. Please point out where I wrote that today’s China “equals” Nazi Germany. What I actually did point out, however, is that economic success or improving living standards are not sufficient criteria for judging a government. This was in response to your earlier comment. The German example merely illustrated that point.
>>Despite what the liberals say, Chinese political freedom has increased as well.
I’ll agree with the “liberals” on that one.
>>China is definitely moving in the right direction
Economically, yes. Politically it is more mixed.
>> it wouldn’t surprise me if in twenty years, China will be come a full fledge democracy
Hilarious. CCP or not, the odds that China will become a “full fledge democracy” in 20 years are about 1 in 1,000.
>>that even a liberal like you can recognize.
You watch too much Fox News.
@Fatbrick,
>>I just want to say that 1930’s Nazi is really irrevalant here. That’s all.
See comment above. I wasn’t saying that China is going to become the next Nazi Germany or anything ridiculously absurd like that. I thought that was obvious.
May 18, 2007 @ 2:21 am | Comment
25
By ferins
I don’t think China wants Iraq’s brand of “freedom” and “democracy”, the freedom to be the G8’s personal bitch.
Or the “democracy” where non-whites or women couldn’t vote. Democracy is more stable than totalitarianism, but some form of meritocracy selecting for intelligent and compassionate people is needed as 90% of people are honestly too fucking stupid to know what’s good for the world or the country. Hell they’re too fucking stupid to know what’s good for themselves.
I think the reason why they disapprove of talking about the Cultural Revolution is because it naturally would bring about criticism of Mao, which would naturally draw criticism to the party.
I’m pretty sure even the people in the current CCP know that Mao was an incompetent murderer and a plague on China, and that the Cultural Revolution was an unparalleled disaster, but it’s directly tied to their legitimacy in the eye of the public.
Hopefully, Chinese people will eventually begin using Mao as leverage against the CCP.
May 18, 2007 @ 3:12 am | Comment
26
By Charles Liu
Does triumphalism and “Official Narrative” not exit in America?
May 18, 2007 @ 4:50 am | Comment
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By ferins
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xnyjH5wusqs
God bless America, champion of human rights.
May 18, 2007 @ 8:14 am | Comment
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By 88
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=blahblah
God bless Zimbabwe, champion of human rights.
May 18, 2007 @ 8:30 am | Comment
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By ferins
Mugabe > Bush
May 18, 2007 @ 8:45 am | Comment
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By 88
Prodi > Ahern.
May 18, 2007 @ 8:53 am | Comment
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By nanheyangrouchuan
God bless China, champion of human rights:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4RUCOrg2Pb0
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Chinese+death+buses&btnG=Search
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Chinese+organ+harvesting&btnG=Search
May 18, 2007 @ 9:07 am | Comment
32
By ferins
No one’s claiming China treats their people well. But that doesn’t change the fact that Bush and Bush supporters are essentially fatter terrorists.
May 18, 2007 @ 10:13 am | Comment
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By otherlisa
Oh for god’s sake. It always turns into the, “well YOU do it too, and YOU do it worse!” Can’t we just stick to the topic at hand? Richard isn’t shy about posting anti-Bush articles, and while my loathing of Bush is second to none, that’s not the point of this post.
May 18, 2007 @ 10:30 am | Comment
34
By 88
>>It always turns into the, “well YOU do it too, and YOU do it worse!”
Wait, you mean posting random links to various other countries’ human rights abuses isn’t relevant to this post — and every post related to China??? I just assumed listing the abuses of other countries proved something. I heard the police in Luxemburg beat up some protesters recently. Doesn’t that refute all criticism directed at the CCP somehow? It must.
May 18, 2007 @ 10:52 am | Comment
35
By Math
I Think It’s Not Necessary for the Chinese Government to Reform Anymore.
The Chinese Communist Party recently passed a decision called “The Decision to Enhance The Governing Abilities of Our Party”. In the first paragraph of that document, it said “Hostile forces’ attempts to Westernize and disunite our country have not changed”.
But, how are the hostile forces trying to Westernize and disunite China? One common technique is to use the banner of “Reform” to change the color of China’s Socialist System.
Let me first comment on Deng Xiaoping to illustrate the importance of sometimes not “reforming”. Deng Xiaoping, in 1989, resisted great pressure from Rightists to “reform”, and we all know what he did that year. I believe what he did in 1989 takes a lot more courage and determination than any type of “reform”.
We know that in the early days of China’s economic opening up, Hu Yaobang and Zhao Ziyang were the right and left hands of Deng Xiaoping. Looking back today, those two hands were not very effective, and Deng Xiaoping were dissatisfied with them. But those two were supported by many overseas rightists and domestic intellectuals. But Deng Xiaoping still fired those two people despite so much popular support they receive. This again takes extreme courage.
Then Li Peng and Jiang Zemin took over. I believe those two did a great job in implementing Deng Xiaoping’s policy, which was basically: “Both hands have to be hard, and cannot be even a little soft”. I was a rightist back then, and did not like those two people. I thought those two people were too conservative, and not “reformist” enough.
Note how I put quotes around the word reform. Some reforms are necessary, such as tighter supervision among party cadres and tighter media controls. But to rightists, they have a different view on reform. They believe that a “reform” is anyh activity that goes against China’s Constitution. For example, China’s Constitution clearly says that government officials are elected indirectly through representatives. But rightists insist on promoting “direct elections”, trying to break the Constitution. Also, the Constitution cleary says that the Chinese Communist Party is the core leadership of the Chinese people, but the rightists insist that this is a dictatorship and not democracy. Rightists often sing praises of the importance of Constitutions, so why do they not respect China’s Constitution?
Anyway, then came the collapse of the USSR. I was very naive back then, and I thought that: “This is such good news for the people of USSR. They captured that opportunity. China unfortunately missed that opportunity, USSR people will start to enjoy happier and better lives”.
What happened afterwards to the USSR completely changed my viewpoints.
In the early days of the economic reform, many of China’s reforms were modelled exactly after certain aspects of West’s system. But today, we can see that the West’s capitalist system is already almost collapsing, and so now China’s future reform direction is totally unclear. Can China continue to model itself after the West’s system? I do not believe so. The West is burning Chinese stores, adding tariffs for Chinese steel and shoe imports, subsidizing agricultures. Even for HK, can HK still be an example for the mainland? I do not think so. Can Taiwan be an example for the Mainland? I do not think so.
In other words, there’s no much left that’s valuable to learn from the West’s system.
Therefore, a lot of times resisting reforms is more important than carrying out reforms and takes more courage. I was in Shenzhen a few months ago, and I saw a Deng Xiaoping quote displayed as a slogan on the street: “We will not change our fundamental path for 100 years”. Therefore, anyone who wants to challenge the Chinese Constitution, to change the leadership position of the Chinese Communist Party, to change the dominance of state-owned enterprises, I think they should wait for another 100 years.
Rightists always yell “If China does not reform this and that, it’ll……”. Well, they’ve been yelling for decades, and China is still doing pretty well, but many of those Rightists have died out….
May 18, 2007 @ 11:01 am | Comment
36
By richard
At least Math doesn’t toe the party line…
May 18, 2007 @ 11:10 am | Comment
37
By Brendan
Math: 汉字不灭，中国必亡!
Incidentally, since nobody else seems to have noticed, cheers to schtickyrice for pointing out the reason there’s been no real examination of the CR (other than a bland “gosh, our bad; what could we have been thinking? Darn that Jiang Qing!”): any honest examination of who did what to whom would be damning for a hell of a lot of people, many of whom are in power now.
I think there’s a lot to talk about in what Math said. Time doesn’t permit now, but I’ll try to come back to it.
May 18, 2007 @ 11:31 am | Comment
38
By ferins
Do you think things will get much better when the old hardliners finally keel over?
I hope so. At worse we’ll just have to wait for them to die. I’m curious which the worst of them are, too.
May 18, 2007 @ 12:47 pm | Comment
39
By stuart
“I believe what he did in 1989 takes a lot more courage and determination than any type of “reform”.”
‘Send in the tanks. Clear the square. Crush them all. Let’s teach these kids a lesson’
Yeah, a total fucking hero.
May 18, 2007 @ 2:23 pm | Comment
40
By stuart
All too often, nations increasingly dependent on trade with China turn a blind eye to human suffering, or kowtow to the childish rants of Chinese diplomats. Not this time:
http://www.spiegel.de/international/germany/0,1518,483308,00.html
I’ve always thought that modern Germany has a little more moral backbone than other countries in Europe when it comes to telling China (and others) to get their house in order.
Slightly off topic, but then the thread has veered from a true line already. Besides, essentially, these are Mao’s victims too.
May 18, 2007 @ 2:38 pm | Comment
41
By Reardon
To those who think that the CCP will continue to censor and rewrite issues like “The Great Leap foward” (including those who starved to death), the cultural revolution and Tianamen Square massacre until those the truth is forgotten. You’re wrong, if the CCP is still in power in 50-100 years I bet you that the truth concerning these issue will be fully known and acknowledged (They may even bring forth the actual recoreded death count of TSM….maybe). Why you ask? Because talking openly and truthfully about the attrocities and blunders of your countries past isn’t hard when you had nothing to with it. And thats what the CCP is going to consist of in 50 + years, people who had nothing to do with these events, who weren’t even alive to witness them. Its no different then Slavery, Indian genocide, segregation is to most americans. Or what the Irish Potato famine, Colonialism and so forth is to British people. They’ll all, including the government, be able to openly admit that these were horrible events that must be allowed to occur again. because when we look at things like this in our past we look at them more as historical facts, we don’t blame ourselves or our Government. And thats what this all will be to China, a historical fact something they aren’t terribly proud of, but nothing worth protesting or acting out against (No ones going to the white house, protesting against the Government for Andrew Jacksons treatment of native americans?). If anything they’ll probally think wow look how far we’ve progressed as a society. It’s even doubtful then that many will blame the current CCP, Just like our feelings towards our present political parties is not influenced by those parties actions 50-100 years ago.
P.S. This is all assuming that China continues progress as it presently is.
May 18, 2007 @ 2:48 pm | Comment
42
By nanheyangrouchuan
The people we consider to be chinese will be much better off when inner mongolia returns to mongolia, E. Turkmenistan returns to Turkemistan, the Wu nation + Anhui become a country, Chongqiing + Catonese provicnces become a country and Taiwan + Fujian becomes a country? The interior of China is already waste and wreckage, why help the CCP create a temporary and fasle sense of hope in that wasteland?
May 18, 2007 @ 5:03 pm | Comment
43
By CLC
I am a little surprised at the quality of translation from Spiegel. Since “Yaowu” in Chinese means “Be Martial”. If you translate “Be Violent” back into Chinese, it would be “YaoBao” or “YaoBaoli”.
May 18, 2007 @ 6:05 pm | Comment
44
By Raj
Reardon
The problem is that autocratic political organisations don’t like to dwell on their “not-so-finest moments”. Even the KMT today (which is now mostly democratic) is desperately stopping removal of references to Chiang Kai-Shek. That’s not because their leadership was around at the same time as him, it’s because they still want to use him for propaganda.
Similarly they do their best to hush up detailed discussion of 2-28 and/or to play it down. Again, it’s not because they were involved with it, but because they don’t want the past to be dragged up and used as a stick to beat them with.
What will happen in 50 years time in China? I don’t know. But certainly I don’t see any changes by the CCP until either they start moving down the road to democracy, or domestic opposition starts using Mao’s memory widely across China to challenge corrupt rule, the government, etc.
May 18, 2007 @ 9:26 pm | Comment
45
By schtickyrice
It is highly offensive for Math to even resurrect the term Rightists considering the tens of thousands of people who lost their families, careers, personal freedoms, and lives because of that label in the late 50s. Shame on you! The thinly veiled threats of intimidation behind our message is this: ask for democratic political reform and you will be following the fate of the Rightists of the 50s.
May 18, 2007 @ 10:17 pm | Comment
46
By sp
schtickyrice
Good point! The label “Rightist” is almost the surest passport to death and torture. Before Cultural Revolution, Mao had his “warm-up” butchering exercise through his wily “Hundred Flowers Campaign” and then followed with a bloody “Anti-Rightist Campaign” with widespread executions, torture and purges. Usually, this label was used by hardline Maoists like Jiang Qing and her gang as a political tool to smear the moderates and the reformers within the party.
I guess Math is probably a Maoist.
May 18, 2007 @ 10:54 pm | Comment
47
By ferins
Democracy is often better than totalitarian rule but it’s outdated as anything besides protecting yourself from tyranny.
As long as there are retards, i.e 50% of America (and probably the world), there will be bad leaders because democracy doesn’t select for intelligence, creativity or compassion. It’s just a popularity contest.
May 18, 2007 @ 11:08 pm | Comment
48
By sp
@Math
“What happened afterwards to the USSR completely changed my viewpoints.
In the early days of the economic reform, many of China’s reforms were modelled exactly after certain aspects of West’s system. But today, we can see that the West’s capitalist system is already almost collapsing, and so now China’s future reform direction is totally unclear. Can China continue to model itself after the West’s system? I do not believe so. The West is burning Chinese stores, adding tariffs for Chinese steel and shoe imports, subsidizing agricultures. Even for HK, can HK still be an example for the mainland? I do not think so. Can Taiwan be an example for the Mainland? I do not think so.
In other words, there’s no much left that’s valuable to learn from the West’s system.”
First, i think it is too simple to draw a parallel between the former USSR and China. The collapse and decline of the USSR was just a convenient excuse not to go ahead with reforms. Put it this way, Deng knew that China had to move forward and ditch communism. So if there is nothing to learn from HK or Taiwan, then Deng would have stick to Maoism. Why did he set up the Special Economic Zones? Why did the government start to disvest the state enterprises? If the USSR had taught China anything, China have learnt that communism was a dead end. The CCP knew that if they don’t carry out the “Four Modernizations”, they would also go through the Brezhnev years and vanish like the CPSU.
It is this attitude of yours that Dowager Cixi and the Qing Court had which led to disasters after disasters for China. They also thought that they have nothing to learn from others. So there they were deceiving themselves of their own superiority when the rest of the world had steamed ahead without them. Deng saw that China cannot isolate herself as the West moved ahead in terms of technology and innovation. That’s why he declared the “Open Door” Policy and there was no turning back. He fought hard against the other hardliners, conservatives like Chen Yun to keep reforms going.
and China is a republic. Republic and constitution comes from the West.
Hong Kong was almost corruption free when Governor MacLeHose set up the ICAC to combat corruption. China is run by numerous corrupted officials. Hong Kong has the rule of law with a independent judiciary while China only had briberies and courts that are suboridinate to the Party. Talk about learning, oh pls!
If Deng had your attitude, China would be like the USSR or even worse.
May 18, 2007 @ 11:16 pm | Comment
49
By fatbrick
I am fed up with those talks about Mao. He is just a dead old man. Yes I think they should bury his body instead of exhibiting it, because I believe the dead should not be disturbed for whatever reason. People who damage his picture in the square should be punished since it is actually public property. Period
Aren’t there much more important things in China right now? Other than the debate about whether he was a murder or not.
For those who want to break China into samll parts, you will be disappointed even when you are rot in hell.
May 19, 2007 @ 12:09 am | Comment
50
By Dennis
When do we learn that we should stop being so paternalistic and telling people what to do? Let Chinese decide what their future lies and let us mind our own business. The best thing that we can do to promote democracy is to build a great America and let it be a shining example to the rest of the world. And that means stop this insane Iraq war and use the money to repair and build up our own infrastructures. Use the saving from military spending (even if we cut half the military budget, we will still spend more than the combined military spending of the rest of the world) to fund our children’s education, free health care for every citizen, much more research money to fund stem cell research and discover new medicine that cure the true scourges of human race, cancer, heart diseases, spinal cord injury, etc.
May 19, 2007 @ 1:43 am | Comment
51
By Charles Liu
Triumphalism and “official narrative” – I think I’ve made my point.
As to those who believe there’s “no real examination of the CR”, I’d suggest taking a look at our so-real examination of Treaty of Guadalupe Hidalgo during the recent immigration debate.
(I won’t repeat the question on the Confederacy’s inalienable right to self-determination…)
Oh, and try to go to China and see for yourself, like Richard. Maybe learn Chinese?
May 19, 2007 @ 1:46 am | Comment
52
By nanheyangrouchuan
ferins:
because democracy doesn’t select for intelligence, creativity or compassion. It’s just a popularity contest.
And china’s leaders are selected by how much ass-kissing and bribing they can bring to the selection committee.
fatbrick:
For those who want to break China into samll parts, you will be disappointed even when you are rot in hell.
So you also agree that China will break up into little tiny pieces, glad we can agree on something!
May 19, 2007 @ 1:46 am | Comment
53
By sp
@fatbrick
“I am fed up with those talks about Mao. He is just a dead old man. Yes I think they should bury his body instead of exhibiting it, because I believe the dead should not be disturbed for whatever reason. People who damage his picture in the square should be punished since it is actually public property. Period
Aren’t there much more important things in China right now? Other than the debate about whether he was a murder or not.
For those who want to break China into samll parts, you will be disappointed even when you are rot in hell.”
He was not an ordinary dead old man, you underestimated his “contribution”. After all, before Mao went to hell, he managed to drag 30million Chinese lives with him to the Hades. Thats a fact. When will unrepetant Maoists like you face up to history? The whole Chinese nation and all oveseas Chinese should disown you!
To use the public property argument is an insult to the dignity of the Chinese people. Why should someone be punished for defacing the potrait of “the scum of the nation”? Would you punish a Chinese or comfort women if they vandalise the Yasukuni Shrine? Its the same logic.
There is no debate whether Mao was a murderer or not. He was not a mere murderer, he was a traitor and BUTCHER! The leader who would devour his own people!
As to your point that there are more important things other than discussing about Mao, it just goes to show how you ignored the feelings of the Chinese people. In the same way, whenever those damn Japanese right-wingers whitewash Imperial Japan’s crimes against China, we all get so worked up. Some even smashed Japanese shops. In the same way,do you tell those Chinese and comfort women who demonstrated against Japan that “we have more important things to do?” Why should you feel different when we denounced Mao, who had killed even more Chinese than those war criminals in Nanking? Whenever there is a “whitewash” and denial of history, distortion of right and wrong, one should right the wrong and exposed syncophants and mouthpieces like you and your Maoists. All 1.3 billion Chinese should spit at you and your accompolices!
Giving Mao a burial? They should drag his corpse out and expose it to the sun, whip his body before the Chinese nation can be appeased! He killed more than enough Chinese in his entire life to entitle himself a place in Yasukuni.
May 19, 2007 @ 3:12 am | Comment
54
By sp
@fatbrick
I am quickly losing my patience towards Maoists like you. Stop trying to convince us of stop denouncing Mao, the “sinner of a thousand years”. My maternal great-grandfather committed suicide during the Cultural Revolution when he was tortured everyday (they make him kneeled on borken galss pieces everyday as a class enemy) by the Red Guards just because he was an “oppressive landlord” where in actual fact he was a just a better off farmer who tilted the land he owns together with a few workers. The Red Guards deported some of uncles and aunties to labor camps for “re-education”. All thanks to Mao and his supporters like you.
May 19, 2007 @ 3:37 am | Comment
55
By zhj
Talking about Mao, let’s not forget Chiang Kai-shek either: http://www.nytimes.com/learning/general/onthisday/bday/1031.html
May 19, 2007 @ 7:24 am | Comment
56
By CCT
Richard,
I’m confused. Where are you exactly? On the mainland?
This link:
http://news.baidu.com/ns?word=%CE%C4%B8%EF&tn=news&from=news&cl=2&rn=20&ct=0
.. suggests to me either your radio station partners are excessively skittish, or you under-estimate what you have said.
There are many things that haven’t been done in reference to the Cultural Revolution. No museum or comprehensive in school, for example. But the idea that it’s a topic subject to thought control is quite simply, wrong.
I’ve been watching movies and reading books that at least “mention” the suffering of the Cultural Revolution for as long as I can remember.
May 19, 2007 @ 9:01 am | Comment
57
By richard
Gee, CCT, you caught me red-handed. I made the whole thing up. Actually, I live on an island off the coast of Venezuela (the bananas are so fresh!). And the Spiegel article was made up, too. Of course there’s a plaque to that silly lady hanging in the schoolyard.
Look, there’s a Cultural Revolution museum opened to the public here in China, and of course it’s not totally unmentionable. But there are efforts to keep it out of the public eye as much as possible. The incident at the radio station is true and it surprised no one I know. Sorry you’re confused.
May 19, 2007 @ 11:02 am | Comment
58
By schtickyrice
It is overly simplistic to talk about the CR in purely Maoist vs. moderate terms. What the nation has to face up to is the negative aspects of Chinese culture that had allowed the CR to happen. Communism or even Maoism alone could not have created the widespread inhumanity and vicious circle of revenge that unfolded.
Where China differed from the USSR was that while the Stalinist purges were mostly crimes of the state directed from above, the majority of atrocities committed in China were by individuals and grassroots organizations. Mao simply had to fan the flames of the mass movement that he had unleashed and send in the military when things got out of control.
The so-called moderates and defenders of the CCP establishment were no less guilty of violence and excess compared to the so-called Maoist and anarchist ‘Rebels’. The initial Red Terror of August, 1966 was unleashed by the ‘Old Red Guards’. Yet today, these sons and daughters of the pre-CR CCP establishment have simply reinstated themselves in their previous elite positions in society. They control the media, portray themselves as purely victims of the CR, and lay all blame for the CR on the anarchist Rebels.
It is the Rebel Red Guards who paid the highest price as military rule was imposed in every work unit from factory to school. No doubt there were bastards from all factions during the CR, but where is the justice when Rebels were gunned down or rot in jail while their so called ‘moderate’ opponents wipe their hands clean and become the next generation of the CCP establishment?
The Rebel Red Guards were no less blinded by anarchist idealism than the Tiananmen protesters of a generation later, who were demonized no less by CCP propaganda today. It is important for the western media to not to accept wholesale the CCP’s party line on the CR any more than it would accept the CCP’s party line on TAM.
May 19, 2007 @ 11:04 am | Comment
59
By richard
Schticky, thanks a lot for your brilliant comments. They will go right over the heads of many, I’m afraid.
Dennis, I love your “Let China be China” approach. I criticize any country I see as doing vile things, especially my own. Silence does equal death. It was this paternalistic interest in seeing China do the right thing that pushed the government to lighten up on the arrest of “cyberdissidents” (the international outcry led directly to the release of the “stainless steel mouse” two years ago, and probably helped in the release of Hao Wu – the CCP doesn’t like seeing such stories on the front page of the Wall Street Journal). I encourage people everywhere to protest and criticize the crimes of George Bush and I don’t see it as paternalistic in any way. It’s healthy. It’s the ones like you and Math that I worry about, the ones who become hyper-defensive about any outside criticism of China while you violently protest about the Yasukuni shrine. Now, I think protest against that shrine is justified, and I don’t see such protests as paternalistic. China wants to be a global player and is portraying itself as “friend to all the world,” opening itself up with the Olympics and constantly touting its reforms. Part of being an international player is getting used to criticism from those you invite to scrutinize you. If China can’t stand the heat it should get out of the kitchen. Time to grow up and stop addressing all criticism as paternalism and accusing all critics of “not understanding China.” Poor little China, everyone’s picking on them. No. We aren’t picking on China. If China wants to be more open, there’s a price to be paid. It’s a very small price compared to the misery of being closed and totalitarian, as in the days of the CR.
May 19, 2007 @ 11:30 am | Comment
60
By ferins
“And china’s leaders are selected by how much ass-kissing and bribing they can bring to the selection committee.”
Sounds exactly like America; but that’s not the point. Democracy can be ok (in George Bush’s case it blows), but it’s not the best.
If morons couldn’t vote we wouldn’t have Bush as President. Same thing with Chen Shui-bian.
May 19, 2007 @ 9:08 pm | Comment
61
By schtickyrice
richard,
thanks for your comment and apologies for veering off topic.
brendan,
thanks likewise. if you want to put your linguistic skills to good use, the Virtual Museum of the CR (www.cnd.org) would really benefit from the translation of more articles into English.
May 19, 2007 @ 10:08 pm | Comment
62
By fatbrick
Hey sp,
Sorry for your loss in CR.
However, as far as I can see, in today’s China, fighting for people who are still alive is far more important than getting revenge for those who are already gone.
I know it sounds really unpleasent and hurts your emotion. But I believe it is and will be the reality in China for a long time.
I respect your effort to correct the history. Sorry I cannot agree with you.
May 20, 2007 @ 1:11 am | Comment
63
By Math
In my opinion, a Cultural Revolution is simply a very effective way to weed out many harmful elements in the society and re-orient the entire society’s thinking. This is necessary when there are signs that the society’s colors have changed, its people’s minds have shifted, its upper leadership has deviated from the correct path. It’s simply a preventive measure before bigger political crisis comes.
The smart thing about Mao’s Cultural Revolution is that it used the powers of the masses to target the internal bureaucracy. Mao knew that he himself alone is not powerful enough to cleanse the nation, so he mobilized the powers of so many young energetic people to help him.
I think a good analogy is to think about the Cultural Revolution as a family vacation. Sometimes if your family has a lot of tension, tension from marriage, from work, from sickness, etc. It is a good idea to take your entire family to the mountains and breathes some fresh air, and spend 2 weeks there. When you come back, you will find yourself refreshed and regained your energy.
The biggest thing about the Cultural Revolution is that it taught the Chinese people to never trust authority, always challenge authority. During the Cultural Revolution, professors are fired, teachers are beaten, arrogant intellectuals are dragged onto the streets, doctors are sent to labor camps, even the president of China was not spared. It was simply a complete and total cleansing of the old worship of authority.
My childhood during the Cultural Revolution was also the happiest. I never had to go to classes, my old teachers who I disliked very much were fired from their jobs, I even saw one beaten by his students. It basically gave you a sense that the world does not belong to elitists and authorities, but belong to the regular citizens. The more educated you are, and the more polite you are and the more well-dressed you are and the more gentlemanly you behave, then the more disgusting you are and the more debased you are and the more corrupt you are, the more despised you are.
May 20, 2007 @ 3:39 am | Comment
64
By sp
@fatbrick
“Hey sp,
Sorry for your loss in CR.
However, as far as I can see, in today’s China, fighting for people who are still alive is far more important than getting revenge for those who are already gone.
I know it sounds really unpleasent and hurts your emotion. But I believe it is and will be the reality in China for a long time.
I respect your effort to correct the history. Sorry I cannot agree with you.”
Oh pls..don’t make me appear like i am the emotional sort. Maoists like you just want to divert attention hoping that people would forget your master’s crimes.
Since you say “fighting for people who are still alive is far more important than getting revenge for those who are already gone”, i would like to hear you opinion on the issue of Yasukuni and comfort women. So when relatives of victims and comfort women who had been repeatedly raped protested against the distortion and denial of history, what would you tell them? Do you tell them “fighting for people who are still alive is far more important than getting revenge for those who are already gone”? Similarly, when if let say someone murdered your parents and your siblings in cold blood and still deny responsibility, do you tell yourself “fighting for people who are still alive is far more important than getting revenge for those who are already gone”?
And you say you respect my effort at correcting history but you cannot agree with me. Wow. Thanks. I think its fair to say that you love Mao more than you love China and your compatriots. You can go and serve your master in Hell, loyal Maoist servant.
May 20, 2007 @ 3:59 am | Comment
65
By sp
@Math
Reading your comments comvinced me that you have the mind and heart of a Nazi. Only a Nazi could have wrote such a thing.
I wondered when you wrote all those crap, whether images of of millions of Chinese starving, people forced to commit suicide, Red Guards torturing innocent folks as brutally as the Japanese Imperial Army, bodies floating on rivers etc etc had flashed across your mind. Normal humans would shiver at such memories, a Maoist monster and hanjian like you would treat it as a funny comic strip.
Yes, you may dislike your teachers, your neighbours etc etc… but to wish them being tortured and killed brutally is another matter.. Normal beings may have grudges, but most would not really wish others to die a terrible death. wow, i think Sigmund Freud would gladly have you as his subject for research in psychopathology if he is still alive.
自由、平等、博愛– 中華民國國父孫文, thats why China should be, not your crazy violence!
Talk about respect for authority, elitism and “cleansing”? Wow. Challenge authority, yes.. but not that of Mao Zedong’s authority. Elitism? Jiang Qing enjoyed delicacies, Western fashion in private while millions of Chinese starved. President of China not spared? Well, but the Chairman of the Party was and he gave himself a god-like status that should not be questioned or challenged. Hang his pic on Tiananmen as if he was God. Mao tried to replace Buddha, Lao Zi and Kong Zi and brainwash youngsters to worship him like God.
The sense of the world belonging to the citizens during CR? wow. It seems that “All under Heaven” belongs to Mao– the latest version of your Son of Heaven.
Mao is just like Dowager Cixi, when he was old and discredited by the Great Leap Forward, he wanted to make a comeback for power. Mao is worse than Yuan Shi kai and even Wang Jingwei. I mean, who had broke his record of single-handedly sent 30 million Chinese to the slaughterhouse so far?
And all these are done for only one aim: to keep himself in power. The price of human lives doesn’t matter, even when they are his own people. If you have nostalgia for CR, you should migrate to North Korea. You can live your dream there but you wouldn’t be able to use the internet though. Thats just a little price to pay for some CR nostalgia, don’t you think so?
May 20, 2007 @ 4:21 am | Comment
66
By sp
@Math
One more thing. Judging by your standard of writing in English in this thread, during Mao’s CR, you would have been considered a 臭老九。ie a “rotten scholar”. If you are as educated you are now during Cultural Revolution, you would be dragged out by the Red Guards as a “class enemy”, “rotten elite”, “counter-revolutionary”. They would beat you, spit at you, tortured you, parade you every single day. Make you “confess” to your mistakes and kneel on glass pieces etc etc.
Its good to see you being put into that kind of situation. After all, knowing English qualitifies you as a “臭老九” in CR times. Lets imagine how “fun” to torture a 臭老九 like you.
May 20, 2007 @ 4:38 am | Comment
67
By fatbrick
Ok, sp. Do I think the comfort women should sue Jap for the crimes? Of course.
Do I believe that Chinese gov should cut the business and political relationship with Jap gov just because of Jap’s denial of history? Of course not. China still needs Jap’s investment and market.
Same story regard to Mao. I will just do some benefit -cost comparison of offically critizing Mao in today’s China. Some people try to make the gov to officially discredit Mao in China. I see the cost of that effort is far higher than the benefit to do so.
If one day I believe the benefit is higher than the cost for China, I will support it.
Oh, the hat of Maoist is too large for me. I really do not think that you know the meaning of this notation. But since you are the emotional sort even you deny it, whatever.
May 20, 2007 @ 5:01 am | Comment
68
By richard
Is it time to ban Math, or keep him around for humor’s sake?
May 20, 2007 @ 10:36 am | Comment
69
By zhj
Mao was stupid, and he threw back China for decades. I hate him. Richard, sorry for my language, but I think he was a mofo. Any Chinese who loves China should denounce Mao. Actually, the only good thing he did was bringing Tibet under control, but Chiang Kai-shek would have done the same, if he still was in power on the mainland. I bet Chiang wouldn’t lose Mongolia, as Mao did!
May 20, 2007 @ 11:22 am | Comment
70
By HongXing
Right now, the evaluation on the Cultural Revolution is very subjective, because it’s too close to us in time, and most of the direct victims are still alive and many are inside the CCP. So CCP today and most Chinese intellectuals will try everything to describe the Cultural Revolution is a “disaster”, a “chaos”, a “tragedy”, etc, because the CCP and those intellectuals are direct victims of it. So they control today’s media and today’s right of speech.
But let’s wait for perhaps another 20-50 years, when people will become farther away from this event, that time, there will be more objective and meaningful evaluation of Cultural Revolution, it will not be so emotional and so subjective. This is similar to many other events in history.
May 20, 2007 @ 11:55 pm | Comment
71
By richard
Yes, exactly. maybe 20 years from now we’ll find the pony in the CR, proof that it was really a good thing. No. It was as vile and detestable an aberration as the world has ever seen, and anyone looking for the rosy, bright side of the nightmare that set China back a hundred years has his head up where the sun doesn’t shine. Deng knew well what an awful thing it was, and the Gang of Four are rotting in hell forever for the misery they inflicted. If you say otherwise, you are calling Deng a fool and in effect condemning the success of present-day China, the philosophy of which runs directly counter to the madness Chairman Mao unleashed on his people in 1975.
May 21, 2007 @ 12:13 am | Comment
72
By sp
@fatbrick
“Ok, sp. Do I think the comfort women should sue Jap for the crimes? Of course.
Do I believe that Chinese gov should cut the business and political relationship with Jap gov just because of Jap’s denial of history? Of course not. China still needs Jap’s investment and market.
Same story regard to Mao. I will just do some benefit -cost comparison of offically critizing Mao in today’s China. Some people try to make the gov to officially discredit Mao in China. I see the cost of that effort is far higher than the benefit to do so.
If one day I believe the benefit is higher than the cost for China, I will support it.
Oh, the hat of Maoist is too large for me. I really do not think that you know the meaning of this notation. But since you are the emotional sort even you deny it, whatever.”
So by the same logic, shouldn’t the Communist government start paying compensations to all the victims of Cultural Revolution? After all, you supported the comfort women, i assume you will support CR victims in suing the Communist government as well.
And since we Chinese have been demanding Japan to apologise for past atrocities, shouldn’t the Communist government apologise to the people of China as well?
I never advocate breaking ties with Japan. But what i find irksome about communists like you is that you people have double standards. On one hand you are so patriotic in opposing japan but when talking about CCP’s own crimes against the people of China, you become defensive and tried to veer off from the topic.
I am afraid your cost-benefit analysis is not done for China, it was done for the Party. China is China, CCP is CCP, the CCP is not equivalent to China nor do the CCP own China. I think you are worried that denouncing Mao would hurt the Party more than it hurts China. Pls do not 黨國不分. China belongs to all people!
Why do i call you Maoist? You have been so kind in words towards Mao and very defensive whenever when we talked about Mao’s crimes. I have never see you acknowledge Mao’s role in his genocidal campaigns against his own people.
Are you a Maoist? Need i say more you have been staying true to Mao through thick and thin?
May 21, 2007 @ 8:07 pm | Comment
73
By sp
@Hong Xing
You have the logic of the Japanese militarists and historical revisionists. By your same argument, these people can also say that “the Pacific War” ended Sixty years ago, it’s still too early to assess Japan’s role in WWII. Wait till 20-50 years time, maybe the Chinese and the rest of Asia would think that Japan was after all their “liberator”? Now its too subjective and emotional for you people to judge Imperial Japan and blame her for the war..
So do you see how absurd your point is? Any Tom, Dick and Harry can come up with this type of lame excuses.
May 21, 2007 @ 8:14 pm | Comment
74
By snow
Math does not value truth or humanity. He is cold blooded and yes, if you want to say Nazi, but more accurately, a Chinese Communist which is far far more cold blooded and freak than Nazis. Check the history, how many Jews did the nazis kill? How many did they torture until their spirits were broken? How long did they control peoples minds with lies? how much terror did they spread? How much did they degrade and destroy their nationality?
Now compare that to the communist movement in China and you will see that the CCP is the worste.
Of course this is not common knowledge and you have to do research, if youre in China, I dont think you can know this info…
Not only is math cold blooded, but he actually is willing to believe in the false communist theory of so called bad elements and weeding them out. What ever happened to the idea of criminality? Isnt it criminals who should be punished? People who murder and steal? But under CCP people who murder and steal become the new worshipped authority.
And the criminals are the smart people and the well off and the people who think freely?
Math, can you think?
………………
So as horrendous an illness math has, I dont think its spreading. Also just because he is sick doesnt mean he is all bad, after all, what human being can be 100% anti truth? I mean he is a human too, so their must be some sense of humanity in him…….Unless hes getting paid which is most likely the case… I think if hes getting paid he should be banned…
May 23, 2007 @ 2:31 am | Comment
75
By Frank
CR is bad. But I hate to say that there are a significantly positive perspective of CR.
Were it not be CR, I believe that China would be in a situation similar to what North Korea is in now. CR effectively wiped out the blind loyalty to the CCP. I also feel grateful that the Korean war killed the son of Mao, who knows he may not become a Kim Jong-il?
May 23, 2007 @ 3:13 am | Comment
76
By Charles Liu
Mao’s son fought in Korea? Wow I didn’t know that.
Prince Harry and the Bush girls take notes…
May 23, 2007 @ 7:04 am | Comment
77
By sp
@charles liu
So are you about to pay your respects and tribute to the “patriotic” Chairman Mao who had sacrificed his son in Korea? I suggest you think hard about the 30 million skeletons in Mao’s closet before you embark on this sick ritual.
May 23, 2007 @ 12:26 pm | Comment
78
By snow
“”””””””@charles liu,
So are you about to pay your respects and tribute to the “patriotic” Chairman Mao who had sacrificed his son in Korea? I suggest you think hard about the 30 million skeletons in Mao’s closet before you embark on this sick ritual.”””””””””””
SPOT ON !!
May 24, 2007 @ 6:28 am | Comment