The divide between rich and poor in China is enormous and growing steeper. There is no denying, however, that many millions have been lifted from poverty by capitalism (not by the CCP). My trip through southern China a few weeks ago dispelled any doubts I may have had about that. For the disenfranchised, for those far from the big coastal cities and from the designated growth areas, life can still brutal and grim, and I wonder if it will ever change. Most Chinese people simply don’t care that much about them, another of the lessons I’ve learned as I meet with more and more business people here, Chinese and foreigners. We foreigners seem to have so much more compassion for China’s disenfranchised than do the average Chinese.

I’m sure there are at least 300 million Chinese, and probably many more, whose plight and level of poverty is practically beyond our imagining. And to see the CCP drop so much cash down the toilet for tinselly buildings in Shanghai and diverting waterways for the Olympics and putting embarrassing spectacles on CCTV is painful, even if it’s in keeping with the way China’s rulers have always treated the poor.

The counter to that is the many millions who now have lives beyond their parents’ wildest dreams, and huge advancements in China’s second and third-tier cities. Most of the citizens there are “peasants,” but their buying power has soared and by 2020 the number of China’s “consumer class” – those earning more than $5,000 a year – is expected by some to hit 700 million. And that is the number that is far more important to the CCP than the aforementioned 300 million. And, I am afraid, to the masses of Chinese themselves.

The point about millions being “lifted out of poverty” is a matter of fact, not theory. The questions are a.) who lifted them up (and my own answer is that it was not the Party but the loosening of the noose the Party had tied around its people’s necks), and b.) is the triumph not diminished by the huge number of impoverished slaves left in the dust (to which I answer “yes”). China’s “economic miracle” is a very mixed bag and to those hundreds of millions left in the dust it hasn’t mattered a bit. I see no hope for this to change at any time in the foreseeable future.

December 16, 2007 @ 10:23 pm | Comment

The point about millions being “lifted out of poverty” is a matter of fact, not theory.

I’m not sure that anyone has said millions have not been lifted out of poverty. The only issue has been whether the central government has grossly exaggerated the number, which is clearly the case.

December 16, 2007 @ 10:42 pm | Comment

Raj, I know you haven’t said it, but some other readers here have. Some of them have even been strident about it.

Yes, I agree about the key issue here, the typical mangling of statistics and blatant lying we’re so used to whenever the CCP shares its “data.”

December 16, 2007 @ 10:46 pm | Comment

The following is a truly tragic story from the SCMP that relates to Raj’s post. As the Chinese government redesigns and expands the Nanjing Massacre Memorial Hall to include more statues of people being killed by “the enemy,” the true enemy at home continues to kill…
Aid to struggling children’s refuge blocked
Josephine Ma in Beijing
Dec 16, 2007

A choking stench fills the air of a home for abandoned, disabled children in Jinzhou in Hebei province.
Dozens of mentally and physically handicapped children sit all day, perched over buckets set into specially made wooden or metal chairs. Nappies are too expensive for the Wuqiu village home run by Catholic nuns, who say the local authorities are making life even more difficult.

It is difficult to tell the children’s ages because many are physically deformed or undersized. Some have been in the home for more than 10 years.

They twist their bodies on the chairs, some wailing, some smiling, and others crouching and ducking their heads. Visitors are rare.

In one room, paralysed children lie on beds covered with plastic sheets, unable to express their discomfort apart from groaning.

Serious shortages of funding and staff, which make proper medical care impossible, have contributed to the deaths of 26 children in the past 20 years.

But despite the appalling conditions, the home is a far cry from the uncaring, Dickensian stereotype.

It is operated by a group of self-sacrificing Catholics who have resisted immense pressure from the local government to take care of the handicapped children, who are considered garbage by their parents and a worthless burden by the local government.

An underground Catholic church was established in the village in 1985, and priests picked up the first paralysed baby abandoned on the church’s doorstep in May 1987.

About two weeks later, the priests found a three-year-old paralysed, deaf girl and two months later a two-year-old deformed, blind boy.

The number of abandoned children, most suffering from serious birth defects, continued to increase, and local believers built the home in 1987 to take them in. Fifty-six children with less serious defects, such as cleft palates, have been adopted in the past two decades.

The caretakers are mostly nuns who receive no salary or holidays.

A young nun surnamed Cao said she had been working at the home for 10 years, without a break, even though she realised she would never see any visible improvement in the children.

“Our food is the same as the children, basically a steamed bun and some other staple food. I have been here for 10 years, but I only took an oath to become a nun three years ago,” she said. “I won’t leave because it is a lifelong calling for me to work here.”

Sister Cao said the 35 caretakers worked in two shifts – cleaning the stools, cooking and feeding, removing and washing blankets and linen and treating the sick with their basic medical supplies. Their links to the outside world were almost completely severed, and donations blocked, because of mounting pressure from the local government after the orphanage was expanded about a decade ago.

“They said we had violated the birth control policies by keeping these children,” said Li Yongqian , the nun in charge of the operation.

To stop the nuns from taking in more abandoned babies, local officials have threatened to charge the home 2,000 yuan for each one.

But the nuns said they had no choice. “They were abandoned outside our door, and we had to take them in,” Sister Li said.

Officials have stopped visitors, blocked donations and prevented priests and nuns from contacting others. A surveillance camera was installed at the home’s door recently, and Sister Li and other nuns were summoned to the police station for interrogation.

Their communications with the outside world were cut off, according to one volunteer who tried to bring donations to the orphanage.

Some volunteers who tried to visit the orphanage or bring donations to help the children had their cars detained and were fined.

Officials from the Zongshizhuang township government, which oversees the village, and the police station said they were not aware of the home, while Jinzhou’s Civil Affairs Bureau refused to comment.

The unusual level of surveillance could be targeting the underground bishop of the Zhengding diocese, Jia Zhiguo , an internationally known figure in his 70s who has been jailed countless times.

Sister Li said if that was the case, innocent children were paying the price. “A rich Buddhist tried to donate a truck of food and other necessities, but the truck was stopped by local police, and we never receive the donations,” she said.

“The donation by the Buddhist had nothing to do with religion, but they still stopped it.”

Sister Li said the home always hoped to find someone to adopt the children. However, volunteers familiar with the operation of such homes said it was extremely hard to find people to adopt children with serious birth defects.

“It is also difficult for government homes to take care of children with such serious problems,” said one volunteer.

“Many rural officials simply hope these children die instead of becoming a burden.”

December 17, 2007 @ 4:22 am | Comment

Kevin, it’s also a long winded, drawn out anecdote. The plural of which we all know is not data.

December 17, 2007 @ 6:12 am | Comment

plagiarize much?

December 17, 2007 @ 6:15 am | Comment

Not only are the poverty stats skewed, but the entire economic condition of China is overrated, according to this NYT article, China Shrinks referencing a study in The Financial Times.

link: http://tinyurl.com/yr2gvw

Very enlightening.

December 17, 2007 @ 9:52 am | Comment

@2nd_year

Huh? What?!?

I don’t understand what you’re talking about. You’re not at all clear, and there seems to be very little evidence, structure, or logical anything in your criticism of the other posts.

Your comment reads, instead, like an ill-conceived attempt at a literary tantrum. You take great effort to impugn the character of some dumb Americans (with no further distinctions, mind you), those with Bachelor’s degrees in Mass Communicaton, and anyone “earning little money” and “losing the chances to look down on other people since they are all making great progress.” (Huh?) Of what any of this has to do with Chinese economic development, poverty, statistics or any of the posts in this thread, I simply do not know.

I’ll thank you sincerely to stop advising Raj, Nanhe, or anyone else you with whom you might find disagreement, even if it is only once a year. I personally do not share their perspective on most matters relating to China (and in same cases I find their words utterly offensive), but at least they craft coherent arguments.

By the way, where did you get your Ph.D., exactly? I assume you’re published now, no? I’d be interested in reading your “work.” Please. Enlighten me.

December 17, 2007 @ 9:56 am | Comment

@2nd_year

Ah, sweet redemption! I see you’ve posted again. I really ought to refresh my browser more often. Please allow me to read your newest…

December 17, 2007 @ 9:57 am | Comment

2nd year, this is Raj’s thread, and he has the right to delete your comment above if he sees fit. You can’t come on here and insult people like that. If you have a disagreement, say so, but if you have to call someone names, especially someone posting here, you’re not welcome at this site.

December 17, 2007 @ 9:57 am | Comment

this is Raj’s thread, and he has the right to delete your comment above if he sees fit. – richard

This is true. This happened to me. No kidding.

December 17, 2007 @ 10:10 am | Comment

Kevin, thanks for that story way up above. It’s important to realize that the mentality here toward those who suffer can be quite different from that in the West.

December 17, 2007 @ 10:58 am | Comment

@2nd_year

I see that your trying to clean up the mud you’ve been slinging, of which I am greatly appreciative.

However, a reference to some random (perhaps undocumented) Hu Jintao statement is hardly a legitimate counter to anything written in this thread or elsewhere. Can you elaborate a little further?

Why the emphasis on 14 years? What math are you using to find this magic finish line? What do you mean by “hard and solid growth?” Are you measuring according to the GDP? Or buyer spending power, as previously suggested by Richard? Or some other demarcation?

Your commentary, like most of the nonsense coming out of the CCP, seems rather naive and propagandistic. It’s a sort of pie-in-the-sky philosophy that does little to address the real world needs of the vast majority of Chinese living in poverty today. Can you really ask 5/6ths of your fellow countrymen to wait 14 more years just to see the east coast cities on a par with the EU? What about rural Gansu? What is their timeline? When can they expect to participate in the “economic miracle” that is China?

This is essentially the same foolish idea, by the way, so popular in the United States just prior to the Civil Rights Movement. Many Americans (supposedly educated, in fact, with Ph. D.s and everything) insisted that integration must NOT precede certain social and cultural achievements (though what those were, exactly, never were spelled out), and that the efforts of MLK Jr., SNYC, and others were too impatient, misguided, and so on. It was as ridiculous and self-serving a notion then as it is today.

Where is China’s economic equivalent to MLK Jr., by the way? What prison wall is he decorating? But I digress.

There is this odd neo-liberal idea out there that the disparity between the rich and the poor (a problem everywhere in the world, not just China) is a necessary precursor to a thriving global economy. This is simply bullshit. (Please forgive my language here, I just can’t think of a better way to dismiss it.) I challenge that presumption whole-heartedly.

This is precisely what was said during America’s second industrial revolution (World War II) by the robber-barons of the corporate class who were asking the public to trust their ingenuity and mathematics (we were all supposed to have flying cars by the 1980s and cigarettes were healthy for working women) and let them steer the economy into the future. Well, we did just that, and now sixty years later, the result is a greater income gap than ever before, executive salaries at all time highs (I believe American CEOs are making somewhere around 450 times the average worker), cost of living through the roof, and the growth (or sometime re-emergence) of costly poverty-related ailments like crime, disease and environmental devastation. What a swindle!

So, I offer you a proposal. Come back here 14 years from now and lets compare notes. If history is any indication of China’s future, not much will have changed, and, sadly, those of us who do not share your enthusiasm for the promise of year 2022 will have been vindicated.

My question for you is this: how many more stories of suffering and corruption, as illustrated in Kevin’s post, will have played themselves out in the meantime? 14 years is a long time, my friend. Too long for a pipe dream.

December 17, 2007 @ 11:23 am | Comment

Chris, if all that you saw in the story above was a long-winded anecdote, I believe that is your problem.

December 17, 2007 @ 11:26 am | Comment

2nd_year, you are a typical brainwashed Chinese. I have seen too many people like you. Please wake up and realize that this so called “Chinese miracle” is nothing but a fantasy, in part helped by naive foreigners like Richard, who thinks what he observes is true, that China really is “improving”. I only hope for the day when this fantasy of China’s “economic growth” comes crashing down. And with any luck, this shall happen somewhere around the Beijing Olympics.

December 17, 2007 @ 11:30 am | Comment

Juice, I agree about 2nd Year being a brainwashed automaton. But then, let’s look at your own comment.

Even China’s fiercest critics don’t deny that many things here are improving. Having lived here in 2002-3, I can say as a matter of fact that iven in the past four years many people’s lives are a lot better thanks to capitalism (not communism). It amazes and bemuses me that you display equal brainwashedness as SecondYear by refusing to admit what is obvious to even a casual observer, i.e., that many people who were starving in 1975 are doing much much better in 2007. I still have serious doubts about the sustainability of this phenomenon, and I would bet my life savings that most of the luxury malls being built in the coastal cities will go bankrupt within five-ten years. There are myths about the Chinese economy, especially the BS about China having a middle class equal in purchasing power to that of Western nations. The Chinese middle class is made up mainly of people making less than $1500 US per month, hardly the kind of customers ready to buy Rolexes and Bentleys. That aspect of the “economic miracle” is built on sand and could disintegrate at any instant. However, what is a fact, and what I was referring to in my reference to a trip to south China, are the millions of workers who, while nowhere near being middle class, are doing better and better, and whose situation is so radically different from what it would have been 20 years ago that I have to wonder how far your blinders extend. This is not up for argument – this is what has happened to millions who have benefitted from the explosion in manufacturing here. Again, I give the Party no credit for this, but it is not something that can be debated. The proof is in front of the eyes of anyone who wants to look. Many people are doing better, while the gulf widens between them and the totally disenfranchised. China’s economy is in many ways a huge, hopeless, chaotic, insane mess. And still, many people’s lives are better than the old days, when there was no economy at all.

December 17, 2007 @ 11:48 am | Comment

Hundreds of millions, not millions, have been lifted out of poverty. Of course, what the article described is absolutely true (I see income dispararity and environment degradation the two top problems for China). But I don’t see any valid points from the BBC article to the need to “Re-evaluation trebles number …”, the title of this thread.

December 17, 2007 @ 12:05 pm | Comment

That’s what many liberal Western journalists said when they visited the Soviet Union. And many people were also lifted out of poverty in Nazi Germany by Hitler’s economic policies, and it was also an economic “miracle”. What is your point? If your purpose is to serve the regime, then of course these economic miracles are great. But if your purpose is to end the regime, then why does economic growth even matter? It’s about human rights, freedom of religion, freedom of media, general elections, etc. If China does not have that, then it cannot be considered a legitimate country.

December 17, 2007 @ 12:19 pm | Comment

>The Chinese middle class is made up mainly of people making less than $1500 US per month, hardly the kind of customers ready to buy Rolexes and Bentleys.

Ricahrd, I think it is a bit misleading to compare middle class in the US and China in absolute dollar term. An income of $100000 per year in the US is probably equivalent to $30000 or less in China. In the US, the tax rate is much, much higher than that in China. And if one has one or two kids, it takes another big chunk of income to send them to pre-school. Many of my friends make about $200000 a year (a couple), and they can just afford an average house on a 30-year term. In China, a couple with an $100000 income a year will almost live like a king.

December 17, 2007 @ 12:23 pm | Comment

My, my! What intelligent conversation and debate going on here. Of course myself and Raj are the only “racists” here.

And it seems to escape most that whatever they interpret as “intelligent” conservation is typically the conversation that they agree with.

December 17, 2007 @ 12:25 pm | Comment

Yeah Juice Man, I am an idiot and I was just shown a Potemkin Village. Right.

Look, these are my clients, and I work with them. They are not a Chinese company, they are a Western company. I know the people there, I go through the factory, I eat lunch with the workers. Not just one client but several. Are they all putting on a fabulous show for the Westerner? No, they are not. At many of these facilities the workers are quite grateful; they are well paid, well fed and well taken care of; their lives are radically different than when they arrived, many from the countryside. The reason I was there was the announcement of a new employee park with tennis courts, soccer stadium, karaoke facility, etc. Now, I have no illusions here, and know all about the more terrible Chinese factories, where a lot of horrors take place and workers’ digits are sliced off and lives are lost and people enslaved. I am have written here many times about these crimes against humanity and will continue to do so. But I also know there are a lot of businesses that are bringing in Western safety standards and raising the quality of life for their workers. I know for a fact that many of these workers have had their lives turned around.

I find it so amazing. The same readers who will be eating out of my hand when I criticize the party turn on me like a traitor if I just speak an obvious truth, that many people’s lives have improved here over the past 20 years. Those who say this isn’t true, that we are only seeing a “Potemkin village,” are either ignorant or are lying. The very idea that some people’s lives might be getting better fills them with apoplectic rage and causes them to lose control of their critical faculties. Ideology. Such a scary thing, no matter which side you’re on.

December 17, 2007 @ 12:35 pm | Comment

that many millions have been lifted from poverty by capitalism (not by the CCP) – richard

Of course, corruption, pollution, widening income gap, etc., are caused by CCP (not by capitalism). Makes sense.

December 17, 2007 @ 2:35 pm | Comment

Here is an article that I found today when I am eating my lunch and watching Chargers owning Lions.

http://www.signonsandiego.com/news/science/20071216-9999-1n16brain.html

December 17, 2007 @ 3:12 pm | Comment

Yes brgyags, exactly right. Capitalism creates opportunities. Capitalism and any other form of economics can also breed crime and corruption and the government is responsible for overseeing that, for preventing it and punishing those who break the laws. In the US and the developed world, a lot of companies pollute and steal. The government is responsible for putting them in jail (Enron, WorldComm and many others) and for cracking down on them. The EPA superfund was quite successful in cleaning up some of America’s most polluted lakes and rivers, and it would not have existed without an elected government and rule of law to enforce the agency’s rulings. So yes, the CCP is responsible for the corruption and the pollution which exists because they have set up a system that thrives on corruption. They are fully responsible. They set up no working system for the economy. Sure, they have programs in place and laws in effect for business, but the successful businesspeople in China make their money by working around the government and outsmarting it, because nothing is as bad for business as the CCP. Trust me, I know.

You have an annoying tendency to make mocking, simplistic, and smart-assed comments, brgyags. You’ve been warned before.

December 17, 2007 @ 3:13 pm | Comment

I can only agree with richard on this one. The policies of the two JV’s I have worked for in China follow the same policies as the companies Richard has seen. generally the employees are happy with their positions,

Having said that the independant Chinese side of the JV being 100% privately owned tends to treats its employees differently, making them work longer hours and saturdays, as well as not considering the safety of the employees or paying the proper pension benefits.

Sure the growth will continue in China, but the implications of that growth and the effect on the environment and those people away from the hub of chinese economic development well who knows what will happen in those areas. and no amount of slanted CCP statistics can hide that forever. Anyone who seems to be able to prophesise what will happen especially 14 years in the future obviously has no clue, whether Chinese or western, they have almost all got it wrong.

Most of the growth in China is due to the fact that people are able to make money for themselves rather than for others and to be able to keep the majority of the money they make. There is no better driver than that for those with the willpower and ingenuity to take advantage of it.

December 17, 2007 @ 3:16 pm | Comment

You have an annoying tendency to make mocking, simplistic, and smart-assed comments, brgyags. You’ve been warned before.

December 17, 2007 @ 4:16 pm | Comment

Just to clarify, I’m happy to discuss points I raise with people who visit, but I have no patience in regards to cheap comments thrown my way.

Thanks.

December 17, 2007 @ 9:50 pm | Comment

Capitalism has obviously brought benefits to China, lifting millions out of poverty etc., but the sacrifices that are being made in the name of economic progression hit the poorest hardest. China has no decent welfare state, despite the governments claims of “serving the people” – medical treatment is expensive and those without the money to pay the bills are frequently denied treatment. The father of a friend of mine died for this reason. Education is also very expensive, hence the common sight, even in big cities, of school children in their uniforms begging for funds for their schooling. There is very little charity, and at the same time a rapidly growing class of super-rich. These are the results of uncontrolled capitalism, and the CCPs is in the wrong for persuing this model of developement.

December 18, 2007 @ 12:54 pm | Comment

I don’t think anyone in the world (who is sane) would disagree with that.

December 18, 2007 @ 1:29 pm | Comment

I have been to China 4 times since 2003. I since have married a Chinese lady. I am amazed by the lack of compassion for the less fortunate and the reliance on “luck” in their daily lives. The “me first” attitude from the street to the buffet table I at first didn’t understand. I had that Marco Polo mentality and thought that here is a country of equals where nobody goes hungry. How wrong I was! To be compassionate is to lose face, it seems. God is only tradition like Christmas is for most revelers. Maybe the number near the poverty line is closer to 700 million. I’m planning to teach English somewhere in China but what joy it would bring me to teach it to poverty-stricken children searching for a way up. In a conversation with my chinese daughter, I said “but you’re Buddhist”! She replied, “I’m nothing”. How sad is that!

December 18, 2007 @ 11:50 pm | Comment

“I’m planning to teach English somewhere in China but what joy it would bring me to teach it to poverty-stricken children searching for a way up.”

@ Jim,

I pray the above dream of yours will come true.

Have you watched the movie:”My career as a teacher’
[梁家辉,郭晓冬,秦海璐] ? It is about a teacher who struggled with small village mentality, political persecution, and coping with the sudden changes of post CR China. The brilliant HK actor梁家辉 played the teacher with a cast of brilliant Mainland actors.

December 19, 2007 @ 6:01 am | Comment

I am so sorry, the chinese title is 我的教师生涯 for My Career as a Teacher.

December 19, 2007 @ 6:04 am | Comment

I have not seen that movie. I know I don’t want retirement to be sitting on my backside dwelling on past accomplishments and failures. My wife’s dream is to go back to her mainland city the conquering married woman. It is a shame a divorced Chinese woman is treated as a lesser person. I feel I am the last resort for her “saving face”. I can go about my life counting butterflies but she has to let everyone know she made it. I think my goal as a teacher will be to instill self-esteem to those who evaluate themselves thru the opinion of society. I am fascinated by this emerging 5000 year old country.

December 20, 2007 @ 12:34 am | Comment

It’s important to realize that the mentality here toward those who suffer can be quite different from that in the West.

You mean the whole hypocritical process that amounts to nothing more than moral grandstanding for the sake of politics or something even more petty?

Europe destroyed Africa and in 40-50 years, where is it now, with all that “aid” and “benevolence”?

Serious question, if you want to say China is morally inferior I’d like it to be substantiated more than with an quick dismissal.

December 20, 2007 @ 10:43 pm | Comment

@ferins

Really glad you changed your name back. Now what does Africa have to do with Chinese people’s attitude towards “those who suffer”? Like Chinese people standing around somebody who just got hurt in a traffic accident and grinning from one ear to the other instead of helping? Or Chinese people watching a girl drown in the city moat, taking pictures and amusing themselves and finally dragging her out when she’s dead? Or Chinese people thinking that killing a few million people in the Holocaust is a great deed?

December 21, 2007 @ 8:25 am | Comment

What “Chinese people” are you talking about dumbass, because I know none of the “Chinese people” I know would mock the Holocaust, watch women drown or laugh at traffic accidents.

Or are you once again blowing anecdotes out of proportion? Do you need more rape and murder statistics?

December 21, 2007 @ 10:44 am | Comment

here comes ferins with the ad hominem attack. you need to calm down my friend, and wipe the foam off your mouth.

i was interested in what you meant by “destroyed africa” and “where is it now, with all that “aid” and “benevolence”?” i was unaware of the responsibility of europeans to sort out africa, isn’t that the responsibility of the africans?

December 21, 2007 @ 8:11 pm | Comment

I have noticed a lot of street corner apathy in China and I asked my wife about it. She said that it comes down to people afraid to become involved. This is common around the world. The Chinese have empathy for slaughter victims. What I see is lacking is chivalry and romance. If we are “enlightened” then we should lead the way by example. I would help someone regardless of the ensuing lawsuit. I’m reminded of the movie “The Time Machine” where a woman fell in the river and everyone just watched. These were young people. China, although old, is in many ways young and inexperienced and naive. Remember, they don’t have the wisdom of the Bible. With their Gods it is what this God can do for me. JFK said “Ask not what this country can do for you”. With me first people seeing benevolence isn’t common. And me first is prevalent everywhere now. On a one to one basis, I really admire te Chinese people. They are hungry for something better. They couldn’t even dance a couple decades ago. Dwarves aren’t allowed children. The ugly girls are in the kitchen. We taught them to be superficial with our movies,etcetera. I think it is time we dwell on the successes of China to accurately access the failings.

December 21, 2007 @ 11:58 pm | Comment

i was unaware of the responsibility of europeans to sort out africa, isn’t that the responsibility of the africans?

They don’t, just like the CCP has no responsibility for fixing pollution, the income gap, etc etc; since they’re subhumans just the same.

Anyway, if you’re going to take the “realpolitik” defense when you’re backed into a corner, you should wipe the shit off of your mouth before you call anyone out on violations of human rights or not taking responsibility for poor policy.

Follows the typical formula- anecdote posted, excremental morons swarm in like flies to dung to exchange notions of moral/cultural superiority, feel better about themselves, etc.

Typical uberliberal Marxist hand wringing, all talk, no results.

December 22, 2007 @ 7:23 pm | Comment

@ferins

Dear Dumbass,

I usually don’t throw insults at people, but since you’ve chosen to use this word, this is how I am going to address you from now on.
You are either a liar or you know nothing about China, although you pretend to be some sort of expert, so again, you are a liar.
I am not relating anecdotes, I am talking about facts. There are a lot of Chinese people who admire Adolf Hitler as a great man and gloss over his crimes against humanity. Anybody who denies that is a fool, like you, Dumbass.
There are also a lot of Chinese people who think that 9-11 was a great thing to happen and again, anybody who denies that is either ignorant or just lying, like you, Dumbass.
When a woman drowned in the Xi’an city moat a couple of years ago, there was a whole crowd standing by and watching. Chinese newspapers reported the incident and photos had been taken of the whole scene. I’ve personally spoken to an eye-witness. The bystanders definitely were “Chinese people”, like it or not, Dumbass.
I have seen Chinese people watch a Chinese man not only beat but kick a little Chinese girl, supposedly his daughter, and of all the people around I was the only one who interfered.
I’m not blowing anecdotes out of proportion, I’m talking about personal experience, so you don’t call me names! Got that, Dumbass?

December 23, 2007 @ 2:12 am | Comment

There are a lot of Chinese people who admire Adolf Hitler as a great man and gloss over his crimes against humanity.

deleted for obscenity and repellent language/content

December 23, 2007 @ 3:54 am | Comment

Oh and for your information, you disgusting lying whore, recently there was yet another mass gun murder in America.

Beating little girls kinda pales in comparison. And a few years ago in the DC metropolitan area, people crowded around and watched while a woman’s coat got caught in some escalators, choking her to death.

December 23, 2007 @ 3:57 am | Comment

@ferins

Dear Ferins,

“Not only are you a dumbass, but a filthy lying whore subhuman. Get cancer and die.”

You are finally showing your true colors. It’s not worth my time responding to your comments anymore. So I’ll let it be, I don’t want to engage in some name-calling and mudslinging contest just one day before Christmas Eve.

December 23, 2007 @ 9:11 pm | Comment

Oh you’re right, all Chinese people are Nazis.

This is what any propagandist does, they bring up anecdotes and spam them until idiots believe they have statistical significance. It’s what people at stormfront, amren etc do.

December 23, 2007 @ 10:16 pm | Comment