This happened in a bustling City, the former capital of China.

January 26, 2008 @ 8:51 pm | Comment

This is exactly the kind of inhumane treatment the CCP pigs claim to have liberated the Chinese people from. On the other side, they and their cronies claim they are not to blame for such atrocities, it’s all done by a few black sheep they, for some reason, can’t control. In spite of all the sky scrapers and modern gadgets, Chinese society is still in the Middle Ages. Great Asian century that is going to be!

January 26, 2008 @ 8:54 pm | Comment

I called these guys 15th-century gangsters in 21st-century China. Disgusting but also almost surreal in the anachronism of their violence.

January 27, 2008 @ 12:24 am | Comment

mor, I mainly agree, but the story did run in the state-operated Shanghai Daily and elsewhere, and the workers were paid and the perpetrators may be charged – at least it’s progress over ten years ago, when you would never have heard about the atrocity.

I don’t know if stories like this mean it can’t be Asia’s century. There are plenty of stories of acts of barbarism committed in nations that were or are superpowers.

I don’t know if there’s a correlation between economic success and moral behaviour. Looking at Nazi Germany in 1938, I’d have to say probably not.

January 27, 2008 @ 2:00 am | Comment

Is this how a state company (China Construction Fifth Engineering Bureau Nanjing Bureau) manages taxpayers dollars? State allocated funding for construction projects is obviously not going to the laborers, but lining the pockets of government bureaucrats who can afford to hire gangsters to do their dirty work. Firing the local manager is not nearly enough. Heads should roll at the top and the entire labor contracting system should be overhauled and scrutinized.

January 27, 2008 @ 3:21 am | Comment

Chinese society is still in the Middle Ages.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/US/12/05/mall.shooting/
http://www.news.com.au/perthnow/story/0,21598,23106549-2761,00.html
http://www.topix.com/news/violent-crime/2008/01/ny-man-accused-of-hacking-wife-to-death

Stay on topic. This is about China’s government sucking, not you feeling you’re superior because you think China’s society is backwards.

January 27, 2008 @ 5:10 am | Comment

“Few reporters or journalists understand what is really going on, what things really mean, and then have the balls to go ahead and write about it – but for this Mr. French gets my support and a voucher for a free martini any time he decides to pay me a visit.
But does he go far enough? It’s one thing to simply say that the Chinese are not civilised, but should one not also offer suggestions and advice to the savages on how to be civilised? As more civilised peoples, do we not have an obligation to those living in the darkness, to bestow upon them the light of reason? Of course we do.Personally, I think it’s wonderful that the CCP is telling people not to spit everywhere, to learn to queue, and to cross the road only when the light is green.”

Found the above in another blog. I can’t say I disagree but I really can’t endorse the arrogance that we westerners are so hated for….

January 27, 2008 @ 7:42 am | Comment

“Westerners” civilized, don’t make me laugh. They just export all the nastiness to poorer countries.

January 27, 2008 @ 8:54 am | Comment

Dear Richard,

You are right, stories like this don’t necessarily mean it can’t be Asia’s century (although I’d still like to challenge the notion that a century belongs to any continent, country, etc.).
You are also right that acts of barbarism also happen in so-called “developed” countries or even superpowers, although I haven’t heard of chopping off limbs in my home country recently.
You are also right that there is no correlation between economic success and moral behaviour. The Nazis are a rather bad example, because their “Tausendjaehriges Reich” didn’t last that long. It’s certainly true, though, that you can be economically successful, without caring about morals or human rights, maybe even more so. My concern actually is that the CCP model (authoritarian capitalism, for lack of a better description) might prove successful, and countries around the world, including my home country, will start to adapt. That sort of was my point when I said: “Great Asian century that is going to be!”

January 27, 2008 @ 9:28 am | Comment

Mor, did you click the link I left in my comment above. Thugs and monsters exist in societies other than China’s, even in our own. This story is sickening, but I can’t say it’s symptomatic of what Chinese people are like. The authorities also vowed to prosecute, and considering how much hype this has gotten I think they will have no choice. Thats the good thing about the more relaxed (at times) media here: it forces the government to sometimes do the right thing, as a good media should.

January 27, 2008 @ 10:35 am | Comment

“As more civilised peoples, do we not have an obligation to those living in the darkness, to bestow upon them the light of reason? Of course we do.”

Ha, ha, same BS many US politicians gave as logic and reasoning for bombing and massacring tens upon tens of millions of human beings all over the world including the land they call home in the name of God, in the name of freedom, the Gospel, salvation, liberty and democracy. Well done.

January 27, 2008 @ 10:59 am | Comment

haven’t heard of chopping off limbs in my home country recently.

There are lots of beheadings in Russia. There were some mass murders in the U.S as well.

Europe is generally well behaved though.

January 27, 2008 @ 11:17 am | Comment

Richard;

You really know how to tow the CCP line by stating that “well, other countries have problems too”. Even the Pinkerton guards didn’t pull off this crap at the turn of the century in the US.

The only positive point about this whole thing is that Chinese reporters are so outraged that they reported the story. Does that mean that the “yellow room” approved? We’ll never know. This is how change began in Europe and the US at the turn of the 20th century.

@ferin;

Europe is far from well behaved, they just put alot of energy into sneering at the US.

January 27, 2008 @ 3:58 pm | Comment

The CCP pays me well.

I never excuse what the bastards are doing by saying others do it, too. That’s BS. What I do say, if you actually read it, is that savage acts have been carried out in other countries that were superpowers, and that we can’t say China is the only place where acts of savagery occur. Being powerful and successful does not necessarily mean free of savagery.

Think about it, kebab boy: If I thought this was okay because other countries do it, too, would I have put up an entire post about it, titled “Fucking Animals”? Answer, in case you’re too obtuse to figure it out: No. This is an atrocity and i have to speak out against it. Nothing justifies or mitigates the evil that was perpetrated.

About how it only got out because of some reporters: those Chinese reporters told the story via the state-owned media. When I was here in 2001 that was literally unheard of. Media censorship is still tight, but there’s definitely been some progress

January 27, 2008 @ 5:54 pm | Comment

Raj, you asked me why I thought the districts in Taiwan were gerrymandered. I think i can now show it. In addition to all the comments from analysts that they were indeed gerrymandered, the mathematical analysis I put together last night and just posted to my blog today suggests that if a party gets 50% of the vote it will win about 65% percent of the seats, and that the effect increases as the size of its vote increases.

Also, I don’t have your email since my Yahoo collapsed. If you wouldn’t mind…

turton.michael@gmail.com

Michael

January 27, 2008 @ 7:55 pm | Comment

Hi Michael

What I was getting at was how the KMT were able to “gerrymander” the constituencies so badly when:

1. The DPP and CEC agreed to most of the areas.
2. Where there was not agreement, those that were decided by ballot were split fairly evenly between the parties.

At best you’re suggesting the DPP was being grossly naive and moronic – at worst that they knew full well that they were unbalanced but hoped they would be the winners, rather than the losers.

January 28, 2008 @ 1:41 am | Comment

Yes, Richard, I read the whole story and I do know that every country, including my own, has it’s fair share of thugs, perverts and mental cases who commit the most gruesome and atrocious acts. And ferin(s) even can give you lots of statistics to prove that the USA has a higher crime rate than any other country in the world. Let’s not forget, however, what we are talking about here. A man got his hand chopped off because he insisted that he and his colleagues get paid for their work! Have you heard of any similar case in America or Europe? I want to correct my statement about China still being in the Middle Ages. It’s still in Stone Age.

January 28, 2008 @ 2:43 am | Comment

One is also left to wonder how many similar cases go unreported. This is quite unfortunate: while the people working as investigative journalists are often good people, they are smothered by the system. It is a rare case that something like this is actually reported, and one wonders if it could even have something to do with some sort of wacky power struggle.
Anyone interested in these issues should really check out the second installment of NHK’s “Dynamic China,” or jiliu zhongguo, which is available for download on the web but massively blocked in China. It details the trials and tribulations of a young and determined investigative journalist, and the extent of corruption, deception, and general dead-ends in the media, in a system that lacks even a common-sense sense of decency and accuracy.
HRIC also published a report by He Qinglian entitled “Media Control in China,” which can be viewed in part here:
http://tinyurl.com/3ctd9h

January 28, 2008 @ 4:48 am | Comment

@Richard:

“Think about it, kebab boy: If I thought this was okay because other countries do it, too, would I have put up an entire post about it, titled “Fucking Animals”? Answer, in case you’re too obtuse to figure it out: No. This is an atrocity and i have to speak out against it. Nothing justifies or mitigates the evil that was perpetrated.”

Yeah, you start off scolding China then fall back into the typical expat disclaimer “but other countries have problems too.” A bit sensitive are we?

“About how it only got out because of some reporters: those Chinese reporters told the story via the state-owned media. When I was here in 2001 that was literally unheard of. Media censorship is still tight, but there’s definitely been some progress”

The story probably didn’t get out because of some new found openness and honesty in the CCP, all it takes is enough angry reporters and printing press operators. I think that is what happened in the Chinese press and the censors were too scared to raise any objections.

January 28, 2008 @ 5:26 am | Comment

Kebab boy, you’re right that it got out becuse of enraged reporters. In the past, say only 25 years ago, would reporters in China have been able to do this (at least without being sent to jail for a long time, in fot executed?). This was an act of evil, and the CCP system helps makes it possible. Some areas are getting better, like the ability to report such incidents, but some areas – the corruption and brutality – are still straight out of the dark ages.

January 28, 2008 @ 8:08 am | Comment

Every nation has it’s share of problems. While it might be true China is now having more of them than other nations, it’s still moving ahead in its own pace and on its own will. It’s far from being in an ideal state but I don’t think the richer nations are very much nearer there.

So if it gives someone the orgasm to say China’s in Stone Age, it is his own problem, or rather blessing, and he should thank China for that kind of pleasure …

… and I’m sure some “decent” people actually make a “decent” living on that …

January 28, 2008 @ 9:54 am | Comment

Yes. What was done was terrible. But in the end it was reported in the press. That is quite an improvement, no matter if similar actions still happens and go unnoticed (repressed?) in more remote parts of China.

Maybe theses social issues can no longer be easily hidden because Chinese society is now more open (freer?), or maybe because the scrutiny of foreign (also local) media, or maybe both.

Maybe the local/central government cannot hide theses incidents so easily, or maybe they do not want to hide them any longer, or maybe both things at the same time.

Interesting times for China, hope they are not bad like Confucius meant.
Let´s see what happen during (and after) the Olympics games.

China is going to be under a very very deep scrutiny the next months. What people will perceive in the next months will have a definite influence in the economic and political position of China in the future.

I hope they do not blunder it 😉
(or at least not blunder it too much 😉
Interesting times indeed.

January 28, 2008 @ 3:34 pm | Comment

Hard to say what “the government” wants. The government is an unwieldy beast, with some who are deeply troubled about incidents like this, and some who thrive on corruption and terrorizing the disenfranchised. I’m glad to see improvement, but it’s still terribly slow. As long as local officials can say what the law is and get away, literally, with murder, progress will remain limited.

January 28, 2008 @ 5:12 pm | Comment

Is there any significance to the fact that this post is called “F*cking Animals” and the google ad that pops up with it is “Beijing Out Call Massage”?

January 28, 2008 @ 5:27 pm | Comment

@richard

Yes, I see your point richard. Thats the effect of the current Chinese political system. It is a pain to read about all what this people had and have to put through.

But I think that, besides the groups that are deeply troubled about that kind incidents (to hide them) and the others who thrive on corruption and terror, there is another group in the government who strives to move China forward. Move forward in the good sense of the word.
Maybe with “chinese characteristics”, maybe for selfish interests, but moving forward.

How many and how powerful they are, what will they be finally able to achieve, I have no idea.

Have no idea about the google ad either!! 😉

January 28, 2008 @ 7:29 pm | Comment

if a party gets 50% of the vote it will win about 65% percent of the seats

Nice, 30% more legislators at 50/50.

Europe is far from well behaved, they just put alot of energy into sneering at the US.

Now that I think of it, I remember some penis-eating/voluntary suicide and sister-marrying scandal in Europe.

mor It’s still in Stone Age.

What about France and other European countries selling arms to Sierra Leone, was it? Some African country murdering itself. Or you know, America bombing/manipulating the Middle East for oil.

China 9,000 years ago was more moral than modern America.

Chopping off one hand isn’t so bad when you consider all the people in China getting cancer, drinking black or neon green water, losing limbs in machinery, or being executed after a false confession. Lots of work to do.

January 29, 2008 @ 3:54 am | Comment

And ferin(s) even can give you lots of statistics to prove that the USA has a higher crime rate than any other country in the world.

When you’re a dumbass, lie and exaggerate and put words in other people’s mouths.

The U.S murder rate is something like 5.8-6.3 per 100,000. For the Confucian nations it’s .5-1.0.

January 29, 2008 @ 3:56 am | Comment

The U.S murder rate is something like 5.8-6.3 per 100,000. For the Confucian nations it’s .5-1.0.

However if you consider US crime rate as directly related to the USA, domestic and overseas then the number of people, human beings being directly mutilated, raped, robbed, beaten, wounded, harassed, lynched, killed and murdered by US citizens, then it’s absolutely no contest. It’s yes, I am ashamed to say the USA has the highest peace time crime rate than any other country in the world

January 29, 2008 @ 9:57 am | Comment

Apropos of nothing…

I’m just curious how one defines a “Confucian nation”? Do we include the PRC? DPRK? Is Taiwan a nation?

Perhaps a little explanation…plus maybe a citation for your data.

January 29, 2008 @ 11:58 am | Comment

China doesn’t count much as a confucian nation as it is not ruled by principles or laws, only by the whims of men.

January 29, 2008 @ 2:41 pm | Comment

That’s probably true. Now it’s transforming into a post-Communist, Westernized hellhole.

It still has a low crime rate though.

January 29, 2008 @ 3:50 pm | Comment

@ferin

still looking forward to your definition of a “confucian” nation. and your definition of “western” and “westernised” if you don’t mind.

but probably you’ll just say something very mature like “Now that I think of it, I remember some penis-eating/voluntary suicide and sister-marrying scandal in Europe.”

January 29, 2008 @ 4:26 pm | Comment

@ferin(s)

“What about France and other European countries selling arms to Sierra Leone, was it? Some African country murdering itself. Or you know, America bombing/manipulating the Middle East for oil.”

You are right, France and other European countries are morally depraved, they even do business with the People’s Republic of China.

“China 9,000 years ago was more moral than modern America.”

I thought China was only 5000 years old.

“Chopping off one hand isn’t so bad when you consider all the people in China getting cancer, drinking black or neon green water, losing limbs in machinery, or being executed after a false confession. Lots of work to do.”

If chopping off somebody’s hand isn’t so bad compared to all the other shit going on in China, that sort of proves my point, that China still is in the dark ages. Thank you, ferin(s)!

January 29, 2008 @ 5:26 pm | Comment