A good read, from someone who’s been quite critical of China himself. Of course, all the candidates will bash China, as it makes an all-too-tempting target. Granted, there’s plenty there to bash, but the casual branding of China as the root of all evil is as absurd as when Marxists say the same about the US. Thanks to Pomfret for fisking Clinton’s sloppy charges.
May 7, 2008
The Discussion: 30 Comments
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1
By BOB
http://www.feer.com/essays/2008/may/beijing-embraces-classical-fascism
May 7, 2008 @ 7:12 pm | Comment
2
By Michael Turton
Good to see that the recent troubles are just water off The Duck’s Back.
Michael
May 7, 2008 @ 7:50 pm | Comment
3
By Ming
A very interesting comment from that blog,
Thankfully, we have a free press in the Western world, unlike you, and don’t need to actually go to see a nation so far away in order to have a good idea of what it is like. China jails the brave journalists who dare to tell the truth; please don’t insult Western readers’ intelligence with your nonsense.
From National Public Radio’s All Things Considered on April 30, 2008:
“Well, he’s one of, as you say, 39 Chinese writers and journalists who are in prison at the current moment…
You are free to go to NPR.org and listen to the entire interview. Sorry, that is if you don’t live in China; I forgot about the censors for a moment. And no, I don’t purchase Chinese made underwear- I value my privates too much:)!
I don’t want to ” insult Western readers’ intelligence”, but they sure believe they are living in a perfect, ideal world.
I am just living in the dream.
May 8, 2008 @ 3:58 am | Comment
4
By ecodelta
Who will be most convenient for CH.
– McCain?
– Obama?
– Hillary?
May 8, 2008 @ 5:23 am | Comment
5
By nanheyangrouchuan
Hillary’s outlandish bashing of badirty China is the result of quite a few investigations regarding the money her campaign has received from openly Beijing friendly individuals and groups on the US and Bubba’s blatant panda hugging.
So in short she is simply reacting to evidence showing her allegiance with China.
The clock is ticking until MFK’s next iteration of my name and his/her fixation on sausage.
May 8, 2008 @ 7:04 am | Comment
6
By RubberDuck
If it looks like a duck, talks like a duck, then….
http://www.feer.com/essays/2008/may/beijing-embraces-classical-fascism
May 8, 2008 @ 10:14 am | Comment
7
By Tom - Daai Tou Laam
That’s a fisking to you?
Does China manipulate its currency? Pomfret says it’s value has increased vs the US dollar recently. Does that mean that it doesn’t manipulate its currency or just that its manipulation has allowed some movement vs. the US dollar? Does it freely trade? Is the yuan fully convertible? Can anyone freely take yuan out of the PRC or are you taxed highly for trying to repatriate your profits?
Has China lived up to its promises under the WTO? Pomfret hands the Agitprop Enterprise Institute line of “cheap imports help low-income Americans” (as opposed to having a job) and then points to a US-China Business Council report saying US exports to China are up (using percentages and rankings rather than dollar amounts of course). Does this say that the China has fulfilled its obligations under the WTO or just that the members of the US-China Business Council (and related industries like PR firms) are making a bit more money now than in 2000? Can an MNC wholly-own a big financial firm in Beijing or do laws and regulations passed down by the PRC say that foreign-firms are relegated to minority partner status at best? Are there still import taxes and export tax rebates to encourage exports and discourage imported items for domestic consumption?
Do I remember Richard posting about the horrible nativism when the US Congress blocked CNOOC becoming a majority owner in UNOCAL? Strange how he (and the rest of the “make big cash in China” crowd) don’t say a peep when the CCP regularly codifies similar restrictions on foreign business ownership and as Hillary rightfully points out, the CCP fails to live up to their commitments when they entered the WTO. It’s okay when China does it (while stuffing a few more yuan in to my pockets), huh?
May 8, 2008 @ 10:53 am | Comment
8
By Lindel
攖媩幹塭 bei gong she ying
May 8, 2008 @ 12:47 pm | Comment
9
By Demerzel
It’s standard to bash China while running for President, then siding with China later on.
Goes the same for free trade as well.
Bill Clinton was very anti-China while running for President and then agreed to let China into the WTO.
May 8, 2008 @ 1:51 pm | Comment
10
By ChinaFronting
China lended you country and you people 1 billion dollars(each and every cent of that money was made by poor workers who get paid 5 dollars a day by the way), that was 8 billion Yuans, now when its time to pay ur debt, you demand RMB to dollars rise up to 1:5, so that debt can drop to 5 billion Yuans? are you kidding me? who’s the cheator here?You borrowed tens of billions of dollars from the rest of the world, after 8 yrs spending frenzy by dubya you are now bankrupted, so what you do? you started a printing dolloars frenzy! cant pay your debt? well just print it!Dollar’s irresponsible declining in the past a few yrs is the major reason for a lot of unrests in the world, oil price, inflation worldwide, now food price. Any outcries in American MSM for ur own immoral and despicable financial behaviors? why’d I have to ask…
And yet a US president candidate and some ignorant/brainwashed Americans have the guts to come out and accuse other country as “cheator on currency”?? WOW…just wow, isn’t ur country amazing? I guess I have to go puke now.
May 8, 2008 @ 1:53 pm | Comment
11
By Demerzel
@ChinaFronting
About the same amount of immoral and despicable financial behavioral outcries in China over China helping to fund it…
That aside, I do find it interesting seeing third world countries funding first world nations now… (at least directly of course).
May 8, 2008 @ 2:53 pm | Comment
12
By richard
Tom, I’ve been writing for years about China’s unfair trade practices. Sorry if I don’t always blog about the things you want me to. And yes, Pomfret did a splendid job fisking Hillary’s BS:
I know, there are lots of terrible things China is doing that I could be writing about. Same goes for the US. (Hell, I haven’t put up a post about Iraq in about 6 months, but does that mean I endorse Bush’s deranged war there? Of course not; it means I’m busy.) About that BS of my making so much cash here: You have no idea of my financial situation, Tom, and it is bizarre for you to speculate about it.
May 8, 2008 @ 3:28 pm | Comment
13
By ChinaFronting
@Demerzel
Do you hear China bash U.S for their own financial ordeal? every country acts in line with their interests, nothing wrong with that, for God sake just stop being such a hypocrite pointing fingers at others! Blaming others for ur own incompetence. Geeze …. Whenever I hear these so called critics from the United States of Hypocrisy I really physcially want to vomit.
May 8, 2008 @ 5:28 pm | Comment
14
By kevinnolongerinpudong
Indeed, Chinafronting, the Chinese media and Chinese leaders would never engage in any US-bashing!
May 8, 2008 @ 5:31 pm | Comment
15
By richard
Never, Kevin. China Daily is more fair and balanced than even Fox News.
May 8, 2008 @ 5:45 pm | Comment
16
By ChinaFronting
@ kevinnolongerinpudong
What I said was “Do you hear China bash U.S for their own financial ordeal? “can you read?
The debt US owes to China is shrinking as we speak, everyday hundreds of millions worth viperates! Can u imagine….for a second, if ur country were in this position? $#@%@#$^%#^%%()*&%#!@^$%^#….my god… every air breathing politicians, lobbyists, pundits, tree-huggers, chicken-hawks, would literally curse China’s ess off, choke every chicom to death… look at what’s happening to those poor mexicans, what did they ever do to you, other than flipping ur burgers washing ur cars fixing ur pipes, and yet they are being mocked as filthy animals. eventhough some of their ancestors might have actually been to Texas long before Lou Dobb’s. Can you imagine how your country would react if some people actually cheat hundreds of millions of dollars away from you, like what you are doing to China?
Of you can, but you wont, you will just shrugg off again. “We are the power of the world, we can fk you over and over as long as we like it…and at the end of the day, its your fault.”
May 8, 2008 @ 6:15 pm | Comment
17
By ecodelta
@ChinaFronting
“Can you imagine how your country would react if some people actually cheat hundreds of millions of dollars away from you, like what you are doing to China?”
The reason CH buys so much dollars and US debt is to kept the $ as high as possible. At least relative to RMB
CH needs, for now, do massive exports to fuel the job creation it still seriously needs.
Without it it would be next to impossible to CH to develop.
The US get cheap money but it has to pay with transfer of jobs (and technology) to CH and harder competition in low tech areas from CH companies.
I would not complain too much about the situation. If the US decides suddenly to Slam 30% import tariffs CH will have a big problem.
CH could retaliate dumping its $ reserves, that could be problematic for US but not terrible. But for CH, loosing its reserves and main export country would be catastrophic.
May 8, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment
18
By BOB
Scene from the movie “Oceans 13”:
“When you work for a powerful man like Mr. WANG, you learn not to ask questions.”
http://www.feer.com/essays/2008/may/beijing-embraces-classical-fascism
May 9, 2008 @ 12:30 am | Comment
19
By kevinnolongerinpudong
Oh, I just love people who ask if I can read.
May 9, 2008 @ 1:40 am | Comment
20
By ChinaFronting
@ kevinnolongerinpudong
that’s all you can say? can you write? I just love to shut people up.
May 9, 2008 @ 9:28 am | Comment
21
By Demerzel
“Do you hear China bash U.S for their own financial ordeal?”
@ChinaFronting
I do hear China complaining, here’s one quote:
“China lended you country and you people 1 billion dollars(each and every cent of that money was made by poor workers who get paid 5 dollars a day by the way), that was 8 billion Yuans, now when its time to pay ur debt, you demand RMB to dollars rise up to 1:5, so that debt can drop to 5 billion Yuans? are you kidding me? who’s the cheator here?You borrowed tens of billions of dollars from the rest of the world, after 8 yrs spending frenzy by dubya you are now bankrupted, so what you do? you started a printing dolloars frenzy! cant pay your debt?”
It rambles on for another 3 pages, but you get the drift of the complaint that you hear.
In any case, you missed my point, so I’ll be direct:
The blame game goes both ways–The US for taking advantage of a climate to rack up a debt, and China for helping the US rack up that debt.
The beauty of it? It forces the US and China to get along within the globalized world as either side screwing it up in any major way will cause huge problems to both sides. Yes, the US complains, but it cannot do anything else beyond that. Gotta love international economics!
May 9, 2008 @ 11:38 am | Comment
22
By Tom - Daai Tou Laam
Richard,
that’s not a fisking. Does Pomfret ever directly answer Hillary’s accusations? NO.
There’s a lot of handwaving about supposedly related items. China allowing their currency to rise vs the US dollar (but not the currency of their #1 trading partner, the Euro) does not mean the CCP doesn’t manipulate their currency. And Panda Paulson saying nice things about China’s currency policies doesn’t change that.
Yesterday’s news opened with a rally in Shanghai because of decisions made by the CCP on whether to continue to allow the yuan to increase in value vs the US dollar. If the CCP can make administrative decisions on what the value of the yuan should be, it by definition manipulates the currency.
The next one was whether China lived up to their WTO commitments. They haven’t. I don’t expect folks like Panda Paulson to complain as Goldman Sachs keeps getting a little bit bigger slice of the pie every year, and folks learn quickly not to bite the hand that feeds them. And the pipeline for the money to keep the cost-plus no-bid contracts going in Iraq comes from foreign central banks buying US treasuries (of which China is a biggie).
None of us are going to even debate the intellectual property theft issue. We know China. We see it every fracking day for good or bad.
Would Hillary act on any of this if she were elected President? Don’t think so. But whether she’s grandstanding or not, doesn’t mean the observations she’s made aren’t China bashing, but 100% true statements about the Chinese economic organisation as it stands today.
As for the argument about China being upset about losing yuan value on investments due to a falling US dollar, go back and study those elementary economics texts. A government that goes out and prints new money with abandon like Panda Paulson and GDumbya is going to end up with a devaluation of their currency.
May 9, 2008 @ 1:12 pm | Comment
23
By kevinnolongerinpudong
ChinaFronting, I believe that the quote that you used:
“We are the power of the world, we can fk you over and over as long as we like it…and at the end of the day, its your fault.”
was actually used by the CCP while talking to the Chinese people. Enjoy getting fucked, while getting a reacharound from anti-cnn.com to make you feel better!
May 9, 2008 @ 3:13 pm | Comment
24
By timmyLondon
American’s Sub-Prime Loan Crisis pushing the world to recession, while the Iraq war drive price of oil record high. the US cause much more trouble to the world.
Now what? They are blaming the Indian for having three meals a day. Of course, their freedom to drive around in their big cars is much more important than those pathatic Indian’s food.
May 9, 2008 @ 9:37 pm | Comment
25
By ChinaFronting
@Demerzel
So I m China now? LOL. oh btw, China also just called you the Unite States of Hyporicy, officially, you can quote China on that too.
May 10, 2008 @ 11:21 am | Comment
26
By ChinaFronting
@kevinnolongerinpudong
so I see you can write an essay of 6 lines now, bravo, though 3 of those were quote. keep those sound bites punch lines coming, LOL
May 10, 2008 @ 11:24 am | Comment
27
By Demerzel
@ChinaFronting
Works for me on what you want to call me. All I know is I stated my proof on why I’m not and you’ve done nothing else but rant and rave.
May 11, 2008 @ 2:54 am | Comment
28
By Peter Kauffner
The Clintons’ have been in China’s pocket for a long time, going all the way back to the Riady/Lippo Group Affair. John Huang at Clinton Commerce Department approved all the “dual use” technology China wanted and Bill even sold China ballistic missile technology.
Don’t think the Chinese didn’t notice. Bill’s memoirs and Hillary’s memoirs are at all bookstores in China and they are pretty much the only non-Communist political material available. Bill bashed China in 1992 campaign, so the type of rhetoric Hillary is issuing means nothing.
The US press is filled with debate about whether China is our friend or our foe. There’s no similar debate in China. In the pages of China Daily, the U.S. is the enemy, period. We saved the China from the Japanese in WWII, you know. We’re China’s best customer, the driver of it’s economy. But all that seems to matter to Chinese is that the U.S. is “the hegemon”, the number one country. In other words, they wouldn’t mind being poor if only Americans were poor with them.
May 15, 2008 @ 8:02 pm | Comment
29
By Peter Kauffner
I think it is bizarre to see Chinese upset about the dollar’s decline. Chinese make money from a declining dollar because Chinese have more yuan than dollars. Beijing does everything it can to encourage exports and discourage imports. It ends up with a stack of dollars because the government is very effective at doing this. The solution is to lift the trade restrictions and let people buy imported stuff with those dollars. China supposedly has twice the PPP per capita GDP as Vietnam. But I have lived in both countries and from my observations the difference in lifestyle is no where that significant. In Vietnam, there are way more foriegn workers from China than from any other country. The suspect the solution to this paradox is that the Chinese government is stockpiling the export earnings and not passing them along to the people.
May 16, 2008 @ 12:13 am | Comment
30
By DOR
Re: renminbi —
60% of China’s exports are by foreign-invested firms.
SIXTY PERCENT.
So, any notion that “China” profits from keeping the value of the curreny at a particular strength / weakness to the US dollar is, to put it mildly, hogwash.
.
May 26, 2008 @ 11:48 am | Comment