Agreed. But I think as you say it is a forlorn hope. The Olympics are hopelessly corrupt and a waste of public money. Some argue that it spurs on development in host cities but frankly I think it is damning that a city cannot get funding it needs unless the Olympics turn up (as in Crossrail in London). Surely if something is needed it should be paid for without the sage approval of the IOC?

July 16, 2008 @ 11:44 pm | Comment

sorry to double post – but just wanted to say well done to the Chinese for clearing it up so quick. they appear to have done an excellent job.

July 16, 2008 @ 11:49 pm | Comment

@raj
“My fear was that all the algae couldn’t be cleared – which may well still be the case when the sailing event starts next month. But because the sailing area has been successfully cordoned off that won’t be a problem for the athletes and their supporters”

Ooooh… Something positive about China from Raj 😉

July 17, 2008 @ 12:21 am | Comment

“This could all be stopped by having the Olympics happen at fixed locations. If the Olympics used to be held at Olympia, why not have a complex built and maintained there or somewhere else suitable in Greece? Or indeed re-use facilities at the location of a previous Olympics – maybe rotate between a few cities at most.”

What!? And loose all the fun! No way!

I do not want to miss the spectacle when Shanghai gets the games. 😉

July 17, 2008 @ 12:28 am | Comment

Thanks, Raj. Another fine article. I also appreciated your analysis of the Mugabe situation which was particularly well done. A nod and a chuckle to your comment: Lastly, the claims that you make against the IOC regarding corruption are unsupported. Could you provide a link to corroborate this allegation. I would be grateful. Incanroads

July 17, 2008 @ 12:46 am | Comment

Algae? This sounds like a job for Megwoman (Peking University Professor Tim Lies)!

It’s a bird!

It’s a plane!

It’s Megwoman!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q_4iUBafmpg

July 17, 2008 @ 12:48 am | Comment

We must credit the Chinese ability to “influence” votes in IOC for Beijing getting the 2008 Games. With thousands of years of practice in “influencing” those in power, the Chinese have made “influence” in to a science. There’s even a price list of government positions.

July 17, 2008 @ 12:49 am | Comment

I completely agree. The makeovers many host cities undergo are out of all proportion to a few weeks of sport. And then there is always the million dollar question- what to do with all the facilities afterwards?

Of course, you could argue that most of the changes in Beijing would haven happened with or without the Olympics. But now the IOC can be proud that less pleasant aspects of the city’s transformation (forced evictions, corruption, the usual story) have been done explicitly in the name of their cherished event. I love how the Chinese government takes all the hits (as if anyone expected differently from them) while the IOC sits idly by, sipping champagne. How much of a crap does the IOC give about the longer-term effects of the Olympics on a city? Probably very, very little. They just want their event to look nice on NBC.

You know, maybe a brand new Summer Olympic City should be built from scratch to permanently host the games. From an aerial perspective, the venues and neighbourhoods could form a sprawling version of the Olympic rings. Maybe they could even build a man-made island beside the World and the Palm Tree in Dubai? Nah, I nominate China as the preferred location, they have much more experience with “New Cities” popping out of nowhere. 🙂

Meanwhile- uh, has anyone checked recently whether Beijing now looks like a giant Olympic Rings from space? Nothing would surprise me anymore.

July 17, 2008 @ 1:20 am | Comment

[…] Raj wrote an interesting post today on Qingdao algae cleared – remaining Olympic doubts. Here’s a quick excerpt: […]

July 17, 2008 @ 1:35 am | Pingback

Not sure what the complaint is, Raj. The IOC is a private organization; if you don’t like their Olympics, or create your own with your own rules of selection. They don’t owe you an explanation.

I’d like to point out that Beijing was selected in 2001 on the backs of primarily support from developing and other Asian nations. The other cities competing with Beijing in that last round were Paris and Toronto; how do you think the Western nations voted back then?

In other words, the people opposed to the Beijing Olympics in 2008 were opposed to the Beijing Olympics in 2001. And the other side of that coin is probably also true: the people supportive of the Beijing Olympics in 2001 are supportive in 2008. And apparently, there are more of us supportive.

July 17, 2008 @ 1:47 am | Comment

Are all of my comments now uniformly blocked? What a joke.

July 17, 2008 @ 1:47 am | Comment

“Will we ever live to see the Olympics become an event focused on sport and mutual respect rather than money-spinning and petty nationalism? Maybe not, but one can only hope.”

Focus on sport and mutual respect? Huh…sounds like a fine ending. But…wasn’t it you who was just moaning about this and that about China a second ago in this very same article?

July 17, 2008 @ 1:51 am | Comment

F*ck the algae, the polluted tide it came in on, and the clean-up effort. In fact, f*ck the Beijing Olympics altogether. However the Chinese people remember them, the 2008 Olympic Games will be remembered in the West for the controversy, the broken promises, the flag-waving, fist-shaking crowds of benighted fenqing, the blue track-suited “torch protectors,” the various boycott threats, China’s constant demands for apologies for hurting its delicate feelings, its continued support for Sudan and Zimbabwe, the jailing of Hu Jia for “inciting subversion of state power,” the staggering pollution, the outrageous sum spent on the Games to buy face (Greece spent US$15 billion – China US$42 billion), etc.

The following quote is from Thomas Friedman’s recent column in the NY Times regarding China’s/Russia’s veto of UN sanctions against Zimbabwe: “Mugabe’s campaign of murder and intimidation didn’t strike [Russia or China] as “illegitimate and dangerous” — only the U.N. resolution to bring a halt to it was “illegitimate and dangerous.” Shameful. Meanwhile, China is hosting the Olympics, a celebration of the human spirit, while defending Mugabe’s right to crush his own people’s spirit.”

Read the entire column at http://www.nytimes.com/2008/07/16/opinion/16friedman.html?_r=1&hp&oref=slogin

Fantastic stuff. Right on the money. Once again, F*CK the 2008 Olympics! Let’s all pray for rain and locusts. That said, I’ll be in Beijing myself later this month. Staying for a month. Peace out.

July 17, 2008 @ 1:51 am | Comment

For once, I agree with Buxi. If you’re blocking his posts, that’s pathetic. Knock it off.

July 17, 2008 @ 1:57 am | Comment

I’m not blocking any of his posts. If they still don’t appear he should e-mail richard.

July 17, 2008 @ 2:05 am | Comment

Incanroads, there are no specific articles that I can think of that recently highlight corruption in the IOC. What you get are commentary pieces attacking the IOC’s nature and attitudes – e.g. the demands for limos so they can feel important, rather than be forced to take the equivalent of public transportation. There were specific examples corruption a number of years back regarding Salt Lake City.

—

Nanako

But…wasn’t it you who was just moaning about this and that about China a second ago in this very same article?

So because I want the Olympics to be tied to fixed locations to remove the corruption and nationalism from the hosting process, that means I can’t criticise China? Where do you get that logic from?

July 17, 2008 @ 2:15 am | Comment

I don’t agree with what Raj says. The Olympics highlights the host country and city for the olympics for better or for worse. China can be cheap about the olympics games, building a statium(s) that could be more spartan, but it is not just being used for the olympics. I’m sure after the olympics is over, China can host something like the Asian games or something like that. These statums can be used as a tourist attractions.

July 17, 2008 @ 3:31 am | Comment

@pug_ster
For example Barcelona.

The city was totally renovated thanks to the Olympic games and made it better known abroad

July 17, 2008 @ 3:42 am | Comment

remembered in the West

Who cares? I love all these West-loving bananas shaking their fist and talking about how “the West” “will never forgive China” for this or that.

Just be quiet.

July 17, 2008 @ 4:34 am | Comment

Very funny Jon Stewart (Daily Show) bit about the Beijing Olympics on YouTube.

The link is http://tw.youtube.com/watch?v=zX2IgZz6k-E

July 17, 2008 @ 5:23 am | Comment

Not blocking Tang’s comments. Caught, with many others yesterday, in the spam filter. Now published.

July 17, 2008 @ 7:37 am | Comment

“Once again, F*CK the 2008 Olympics! Let’s all pray for rain and locusts. That said, I’ll be in Beijing myself later this month. Staying for a month. Peace out.”

I pity Beijing. Hong carries enough venom to wither even that big city. We in Shanghai should be warned of his coming.

I agree that the IOC princelings and their perogatives should be brought back down to earth.

Now to something that can be done: I’m not surprised to see the aglal bloom (or was it “mutant seaweed” that terrified some posters here?) cleaned and under control, well away from the events, and perhaps not even enough left behind to warrant bitching after the competition.

July 17, 2008 @ 7:41 am | Comment

The problems getting the Olympics off the ground are making coffee-house conversation here in the US (I’m on extended visit). Not a lot of partisan crap, but lots of questions about what goes on in China.

Re IOC corruption, I seem to remember some kickback business, too, but the link is not handy. Why would they be immune to corruption? Small number of key people controlling a huge monetary event, with no overseeing body to speak of. If the UN can let a billion slip through the Oil-for-food sieve, you can bet a small, rather private group is exposed to extreme temptation.

My impression is that Beijing is now having mixed feelings about all the “open to the world” move they started, now that lots of stuff is much more visible than they wished. Small bet: Thousands of foreign journalists wandering around will make some very uncomfortable times for the Big Party, and stimulate some truly incredible rhetoric but little else.

July 17, 2008 @ 9:22 am | Comment

IOC and corruption? Salt Lake City popped into mind immediately. Several IOC members were expelled or persuaded to resign because of bribery charges and longtime President Juan Antonio Samaranch did not run for office again. There were also allegations of vote-buying by people working to support Sydney’s winning bid.

July 17, 2008 @ 11:56 am | Comment

goodbye sk. you can’t talk like that.

Richard

July 17, 2008 @ 12:34 pm | Comment

“Meanwhile- uh, has anyone checked recently whether Beijing now looks like a giant Olympic Rings from space? Nothing would surprise me anymore.”

I tried, but the whole area is covered by a big cap of smog. They call it “the China Brown”.

July 17, 2008 @ 2:40 pm | Comment

The IOC is a private organization; if you don’t like their Olympics, or create your own with your own rules of selection. They don’t owe you an explanation.

They owe everyone an explanation because they are given a monopoly on Olympic rights and make shed-loads of money from it. They did not buy those rights for themselves.

One cannot organise a competiting Olympics, just as one cannot sell “Olympic merchandise” without their permission and accounting profits/royalties to them. The whole point of the IOC is to be the sole organising body for the Olympics. If anyone could run competing games then there would be no point in it.

And apparently, there are more of us supportive.

Who is “us” – the Borg?

July 17, 2008 @ 2:45 pm | Comment

“These statums can be used as a tourist attractions.”

Or maybe for Crazy English lessons?

July 17, 2008 @ 2:56 pm | Comment

lol this thread is just so unreal! the thing is 1 month away, a pile of country leaders and a shit load of CEOs will be there put on cheesy smiles act like its all good, some posters here still questioning IOC’s initial decision and and beijing’s spendings? and praying for locusts to rain down from heaven? pathetic! when can you realize ur bitching and cursing DONT MATTER and CANT CHANGE A THING? for grass root people it’s a grand party, a good time to get wasted, for elite people it’s a good place to do biz, only the losers in between whinning like sissy little girls, they think they are smarter than John Doe but they dont know jack about how the world works.

to me, if the thing ends up making money, it’s cool, if it ends up losing money, a lot of ppl ‘s asses should be in jail.

July 17, 2008 @ 6:39 pm | Comment

for grass root people it’s a grand party, a good time to get wasted

Why do billions of dollars have to be spent and thousands of Beijing residents forced out of their homes just so that people can have a party? Clearly that is not the case – people can have fun whenever they want to and do not need to spend silly amounts of money to do so. The only people that have to spend lots of cash when having fun are insecure individuals who feel that they need to show off to feel important – is that where China is today?

if it ends up losing money, a lot of ppl ’s asses should be in jail

I had the impression that every Olympics loses money because the income never covers the massive costs – which is one reason that the modern incarnation of the Olympics is repeatedly criticised. That’s why the Greek government had to suspend the purchase of new fighters for its airforce and still hasn’t been able to order them, after it found it had to keep pouring more and more of its own money in to get things going. I do not know what Sydney or Atlanta were like, but I think that the massive costs in building the Beijing facilities, cleaning up this algae, evicting all those people from their homes, the re-development, etc will never be covered by tourism and sales of Fuwas.

July 17, 2008 @ 7:00 pm | Comment

it’s good that the algae was clean up. now for the air…

July 17, 2008 @ 7:47 pm | Comment

@raj

i always admire the way you will debate with people who enrich the dialogue with such comments as “losers in between whinning like sissy little girls,” (is that supposed to be whining or whinnying?) and “if the thing ends up making money, it’s cool, if it ends up losing money, a lot of ppl ’s asses should be in jail.”

are you the member of some sort of outreach programme? are you being sponsored for every post with proceeds to charity? if so, i applaud your efforts. good for you sir, good for you.

July 17, 2008 @ 8:46 pm | Comment

Raj,

I said: But…wasn’t it you who was just moaning about this and that about China a second ago in this very same article?

You said: So because I want the Olympics to be tied to fixed locations to remove the corruption and nationalism from the hosting process, that means I can’t criticise China? Where do you get that logic from?

See, why do you have to combine corruption and nationalism in one sentence, so that it’d sound more convincing? Removal of corruption maybe we all like to see, but nationalism? How’s another country’s nationalism your business?

You want to see more focus on the games and mutual respect, or at least you want people to think you do. But aren’t you advocating the exact opposite in the same article?

July 18, 2008 @ 1:54 am | Comment

“This could all be stopped by having the Olympics happen at fixed locations.”

Aren’t 99 percent of the world’s sports events held at fixed locations? Has this fact have any bearing on the fight against corruption and petty nationalism?

For some reason, I have a funny feeling the discomfort has more to do with a grape than the concerns of public good.

July 18, 2008 @ 2:04 am | Comment

ppl throughout China are forced out of their homes everyday, with or without olympics. besides its not a totally bad thing, many of them get compensated by millions. I’ m sure there is abusing here and there if that’s where you going to, why do u think the CCP is so efficient to get things done? by playing nice?

and is that where china is today? of course it is. what do u think got china to where it is today within 25 yrs? the pursue of inner peace? it’s the hunger for fortune, the glory of being rich, the fear of cant keep up, it’s cash cash cash!drive everybody work crazy and lift the nation. are u dumb or something? you need other ppl to tell u this?

July 18, 2008 @ 3:06 am | Comment

Si, I like to believe that some people merely have poor English or think before they type.

—

Nanako

why do you have to combine corruption and nationalism in one sentence, so that it’d sound more convincing?

No, because the nationalism enables the corruption. If there was no nationalism concerned with the Games there’d be a lot less eagerness to host it, there’d be less money floating around and thus there’d be less corruption. The two, sadly, work hand-in-hand.

But aren’t you advocating the exact opposite in the same article?

How does attacking corruption in the IOC and obsessive nationalism stop mutual respect and love of the Games? Currently the Games are about £££££ from the IOC’s POV and nationalism from the POV of too many countries.

—

MoneyBall

ppl throughout China are forced out of their homes everyday, with or without olympics

So that justifies them being forced out for the Olympics?

besides its not a totally bad thing, many of them get compensated by millions

Can you cite a single credible media report that says any poor Beijinger was offered 1 million yuan (I assume you mean yuan) for their property?

why do u think the CCP is so efficient to get things done? by playing nice?

If you say “efficiency” one often thinks of countries like Norway, Sweden and Japan. Yet I don’t think anyone would say that they did not “play nice”. Why does the CCP have to act nasty to do anything with a hint of efficiency? And one could argue that sometimes it is better to respect people’s rights rather than walk all over them to do something a bit faster.

and is that where china is today? of course it is

My original comment was that the people who can only have fun by blowing cash to show off are insecure. Are you saying that China has to show off because it is insecure?

If that does describe China then I think that the CCP could do with training more psychiatrists to treat the government/general population.

July 18, 2008 @ 6:03 am | Comment

Are you saying that China has to show off because it is insecure?

The CCP does show off because it is insecure, and it is insecure because America (and it’s vassal, the UK) wants to destabilize the country.

July 18, 2008 @ 6:31 am | Comment

The CCP does show off because it is insecure

Now that we have that on record we can arrange the therapy sessions.

because America (and it’s vassal, the UK) wants to destabilize the country

You have been booked for the second session.

July 18, 2008 @ 6:52 am | Comment

Yes, while we’re at it we better get them A-rabs some psychological help too. America is your friend, you are just paranoid! Britain and America never attack or subvert foreign countries to serve their own interests.. you must be out of your mind!

Forget about those so-called Native Americans, they’re simply a figment of your imagination, you sick fool. Now watch this report on Fox News, you will learn everything you need to know.

July 18, 2008 @ 7:05 am | Comment

@Raj

“Can you cite a single credible media report that says any poor Beijinger was offered 1 million yuan (I assume you mean yuan) for their property?”

My family had a small house in Tianjin old downtown, the whole community was wiped out, we got a quater million RMB from the government, that was 10 yrs ago. we considered its a fortune to us, even today you can buy an AUDI with a quater mil, back then it was a big chunk of money, could easily buy 2 apartments. If you think CCP officials in Beijing dare to drive ppl out of their home without compensating them you are crazy, maybe in some rural places in rural provinces, like wengan in guizhou, but not in beijing. Do you know how Chen XiTong, the former beijing party boss got into trouble and eventually jailed? a land dispute related to his son. Everybody in beijing has some connection, you piss ppl off you dont know where they can get back to you. as a matter of fact my uncle in beijing lives near of a olympics contruction site, he used to get a few hundreds of RMBs every month for “the noise of the construction in the nights”.

This just shows though you constantly talk about CCP but you just dont know much about them, there is things they will do and things they will not. silencing earth quake parents they will do, jailing young innocent activists they will do, slaughtering tibetans on streets they will not, driving beijingers out of house without compensation they will not, not that they dont want to, but they dont dare. We chinese can easily tell, we know Tibet genocide in March is a lie because we know these CCP fuckers too well, and for that we’re called brainwashed…you guys sometimes can be really amusing, or stupid.

July 18, 2008 @ 11:56 am | Comment

I haven’t been keeping up with TPD these past few months, so I’m not familiar with commenter MoneyBall, but the last post makes sense.

July 18, 2008 @ 1:11 pm | Comment

That’s an interesting story, MoneyBall, but Tianjin is not Beijing and ten years ago isn’t today.

If you think CCP officials in Beijing dare to drive ppl out of their home without compensating them you are crazy…. not in beijing

Ah, don’t move the goalposts. You said “besides its not a totally bad thing, many of them get compensated by millions”. So I wanted to know of a single circumstance where a poor Beijinger had been forced out of their house due to the Olympics and been offered a million+ yuan. I never said that they were being driven out for NO money. But the amount offered is important. Just because your family got a lot for their needs ten years ago does not mean everyone is getting an equivalent amount today.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/asia-pacific/7509614.stm

Now that article does cite the amount of money offered. 340,000 yuan with ten years of rising living costs and Beijing property inflation doesn’t go nearly as far as 250,000 would have done ten years ago.

This just shows though you constantly talk about CCP but….

The only thing that this shows is that you are completely unable to read people’s comments. I suggest you try harder next time to fully understand the point before you reply, rather than react on auto-pilot.

July 18, 2008 @ 3:01 pm | Comment

Refreshingly new perspective on the big O, hope you enjoy!

http://www.opendemocracy.net/article/the-olympics-civilising-legacy-st-louis-to-beijing

July 18, 2008 @ 5:56 pm | Comment

Andy R, the last paragraph in the article you pointed us to is particularly interesting:

“In the global competition to establish an image as a world power, China is still trying to win by playing more or less according to the rules it learned in the early 20th century. State leaders and citizens alike are so committed to a rather simple notion of evolutionary progress based on economic modernisation that they are ill-prepared to understand the nuances that have been introduced in the west. Meantime, the west has changed the rules of the game by adding new factors such as human rights. To the degree that western ideas about what constitutes a prosperous, strong, and moral nation dominate in global politics and public opinion, the west controls the rules of the game. As long as it controls the rules it can also keep changing them to ensure that newcomers never win.”

I would argue, though, that there are many in the West who still subscribe to the ‘simple notion of evolutionary progress based on economic modernisation’. It is so damn infused in popular thinking and media to the point of being infuriating. I mean, where does this whole “developed” vs “developing” world conceptual split come from in the first place? In many ways, it is nonsense. It’s the thinking that allows journals to describe Africa as an “impoverished continent” without so much of a second thought.

And this also gets down to the battle in Western perspectives over China. Those in awe of China’s transformation obviously subscribe wholesale to this evolutionary progress idea (ie “they are building so many new modern things, that is progress”). But those who are jealous/attack China’s transformation are also buying into this perspective with an insistence on pointing out how China is still a “developing” or “poor” country despite its changes.

So the whole debate over China is fascinating, but it’s still rooted in the increasingly outdate framework of whether it can transition from a “developing” to a “developed” country. The problem is, what being “developed” even is becomes less clear by the day.
I mean, how “developed” is the US if its energy needs are still beyond dependent on oil and coal? Is a high standard of living- as the term is popularly understood- so high if it completely unsustainable?

I think China can certainly beat the West at its own game- the physical transformations of Beijing and Shanghai and countless other cities are testament to that- but as the Western game is increasingly exposed as a shaky mess that might become problematic. I have no doubt China could have a bigger industrial economy than the US- but is that a measure of value in itself?

In effect, China is going gangbusters to emulate an industrial model that has yet to be really proven long-term even in Europe or the US.

If nothing else, we are in for a pretty interesting century.

July 19, 2008 @ 12:07 am | Comment

The CCP does show off because it is insecure, and it is insecure because America (and it’s vassal, the UK) wants to destabilize the country.

Thank you, thank you, thank you, Ferin. This statement shall remain chiseled in granite next to your name forever. If I had ever wondered what valuable service you provide, I have my answer now. You outline what the REAL official line is, and make us ordinary fools look wise by comparison.

July 19, 2008 @ 6:53 am | Comment

Do you see anything wrong with this? When a nation is threatened the leadership tends to make sacrifices (especially concerning human rights and personal freedoms) in order to produce as much hard power capability as fast as possible (economy, military).

America and her vassals probably set liberalization in China and the Middle East back by 20-30 years with their standard diplomatic incompetence.

July 19, 2008 @ 9:07 am | Comment

@Raj

did u take a look at the pic in ur link? that shitty house, if you can call it house, worth 340K? and the guy said it was bought before CCP took over the country… holly crap! he meant to say that thing has lasted 60 yrs? so this is ur credible media report? are u kidding me? and u just believed it? do u use ur brain when you read? go get ur head check by a shrink.

let me tell u this, no beijinger would sell their places to the goverment less than market values, when it comes to money if you think these ppl are bitches the government can shit all over you are deadly wrong. I said millions because that’s the market value of some apartments in beijing, let alone houses. why am i talking about the realstate market with a dumb foreigner anyway, take it or leave it, I m done talking to u.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:28 am | Comment

Moneyball

did u take a look at the pic in ur link? that shitty house, if you can call it house, worth 340K?

Doesn’t matter what it’s worth, what matters is whether replacement accomodation that can also serve as a place of business. If cheap housing in Beijing where people can also work is knocked down then there’s little you can do with the “compensation”. If you had bothered to read the article you would know the complaint was that the owners didn’t see where they could live that would allow them to carry on their work.

no beijinger would sell their places to the goverment less than market values, when it comes to money if you think these ppl are bitches the government can shit all over you are deadly wrong

You fail to understand that they are not SELLING – they are being forceably BOUGHT OUT. The whole point is that they are being forced to take the compensation offered – they can’t control what the amount is. The government can shit over the common man when it feels its necessary. Or even if the government means no ill will, that doesn’t stop corrupt officials creaming off compensation money for themselves.

July 21, 2008 @ 4:37 am | Comment

And I am still waiting for you to provide evidence of a single Beijinger being paid 1 million+ yuan in compensation. Or will you admit that none of them are paid “millions” as you originally put it?

July 21, 2008 @ 4:40 am | Comment