Can’t wait to see where this thread goes…

July 18, 2008 @ 5:34 pm | Comment

I have a hunch…

July 18, 2008 @ 5:35 pm | Comment

50 center “playbook” response:

1. Reiterate that it is a rumor and that we should all be careful about making comments we might later regret.

2. Point out that America is a racist country.

3. Point out that the people under question were usually drug dealers and the local authorities therefore have the right to remove them to promote harmonious society during the Olympic games.

4. Point out that America is a racist country.

5. Repeat above ad nauseum.

Interesting related post about a notorious bar in Beijing: http://blog.newsweek.com/blogs/beijing/archive/2008/07/14/behind-the-red-door-how-the-police-got-the-girls.aspx
Get it via ESWN if the link got cut off.

July 18, 2008 @ 5:51 pm | Comment

I, for one, don’t believe a word of it. Zhou Enlai said it best in a speech he gave in 1955 when he said that racism is “uniquely absent” in China. Case closed.

July 18, 2008 @ 6:06 pm | Comment

@andy r

excellent response. here, for the record, is my 50 cents on what the 50 centers should do.

1. Say they hope it is a rumour and that they are disgusted and appalled by the report.
2. Say they will be raising it with officials in Beijing and ask for a swift rebuttal and a commitment anti-racist action.
3. Say there have been problems in the past with racism in China and give examples of how the CCP is trying to deal with it (could be difficult, but i am sure they could find something)
4. Reiteriate their opposition

Oh, and

5. Point out that America is a racist country and Anglos are racist people. Sorry, isn’t that a typo? Shouldn’t it Amerikkka and Anglows?

@hong

be careful. irony doesn’t always come across on a blog. for a moment there i thought you might be serious ;P

July 18, 2008 @ 6:19 pm | Comment

if history is any guide, this is not out of the realm of possibility. it was only a matter of months ago that the police and their camoflauge goon squad showed up in sanlitun and beat and detained only black patrons, including the son of an ambassador. this was called an “anti-drug operation.” nice. one world, one dream!!

July 18, 2008 @ 6:59 pm | Comment

reuters article on the guardian is along similiar lines and interesting.

http://tinyurl.com/6lz2t6

are they trying to turn beijing into singapore?

July 18, 2008 @ 7:59 pm | Comment

[…] (HT to the Peking Duck) […]

July 18, 2008 @ 9:00 pm | Pingback

YJ checked out the rumor with some people “in the know,” looks like the SCMP pulled this at random off of some BBS. Rumor: BUSTED.

July 18, 2008 @ 9:46 pm | Comment

From the article Si references above:

A Hong Kong newspaper on Friday quoted unnamed sources as saying that police were demanding bar owners sign “secret” pledges not to serve black people or Mongolian prostitutes.

Beijing police earlier this year carried out a drugs sweep in a popular bar district in Sanlitun, which saw black people bundled indiscriminately into police vans, witnesses said.

I do want to think this is a grotesque joke or misunderstanding or….something other than the truth. Of course, hearsay isn’t authoritative, but the SCMP is not usually a rumor mongerer.

If it’s true, the geniuses over at Party Headquarters who can make it rain and perform all sorts of other miracles had better fix it fast. If it’s documented and proven true it would be a death blow to the one world one dream mantra.

For a while I was willing to cut the party a lot of slack because I saw some signs of positive change, and because the Chinese people seem to appreciate them and, after all, it is their country. But in the past couple of months I’ve felt a major swing back in the other direction as I watch them fuck up one thing after another. Reading Philip Pan’s Out of Mao’s Shadow isn’t helping endear them to me.

But again, let’s give them the benefit of the doubt on this. I mean, they can’t be that stupid. Can they?

July 18, 2008 @ 9:49 pm | Comment

Heh – I just noticed that the Amazon link I gave for Pan’s book is now blocked. I hope the keywords don’t freeze up this thread. Another reason to love the party.

July 18, 2008 @ 9:51 pm | Comment

Danwei made a few phone calls to verify the story and came up blank. My gut feeling is that the story is false. I can’t see any reason why the PSB would feel the need to have Mongolians and black foreigners banned from bars. Across the Yellow Sea in South Korea, real and imagined crimes by foreign English teachers, Nigerians, and GIs are regularly sensationalized in the Korean media, to the point where citizens in one city have formed a vigilante group to follow around foreigners and make sure they aren’t teaching without a proper visa, taking drugs, or molesting Korean students. Since foreign crime isn’t a staple of the Chinese press and hence, no public perception that ordinary foreigners are a threat to public safety, the PSB has no reason to target blacks and Mongolians. Now if this were a story about foreign reporters being banned from Sanlitun bars, that I might believe.

July 18, 2008 @ 10:19 pm | Comment

There is no way this would be true. I would rather believe white guys are banned in the bar.

This is a stupid post, making no sense.

July 18, 2008 @ 10:54 pm | Comment

Ming, I agree that it is probably false, especially after seeing Sonagi’s comment. However, it has gotten play on Reuters and the SCMP and many other sites, so don’t blame this site. As the post says it may just be “hysteria run amok.” I sure hope it is.

July 18, 2008 @ 11:07 pm | Comment

Richard,

It would be nice if you could add a prominent note above/below the post stating that your initial “hope” is probably true.

July 18, 2008 @ 11:13 pm | Comment

Jeremiah,

Oops, sorry I should have realized that it’s not Richard’s but your post.

July 18, 2008 @ 11:15 pm | Comment

Probably some dumb cop said something to a few bar owners and it’s slowly getting blown out of proportion. But when you have dumb cops doing dumb things you are going to get a lot of dumb rumors.

@Ming

“I would rather believe white guys are banned in the bar.”
Just had to get that in there, huh? From one racism to another just like that…When people like you take time out of their day to represent China with statements like that, it’s no wonder rumors like this get started. Keep up the GREAT work!

July 18, 2008 @ 11:18 pm | Comment

@Ming

1. “There is no way this would be true”? I beg to differ. You seem to be confusing the professional technocrats who make up much of China’s political elite with the motley crue of thugs and misguided idiots who actually run most of China’s day-to-day affairs. The reason that a story like this gains traction, Ming, is because people who understand China (i.e., anyone who has paid attention to China for longer than five or ten minutes) know that such nonsense is not only possible, it actually defines China’s politics at the town and county levels. The idea that a lower level bureaucrat in Beijing got a hard-on for blacks and Mongolians shouldn’t surprise anyone – especially this year.

2. Your comment about “white guys” says far more about you, Ming, than it says about white guys. Another Chinese guy with a bug up his ass for white guys – whaddaya know. Congratulations, Ming, you’re a cliche.

3. If you have nothing better to offer than “This is a stupid post, making no sense,” then get lost. Return when you’re more interesting.

July 18, 2008 @ 11:29 pm | Comment

Having said that such nonsense is possible, I’m still not convinced it’s true in this case. Needs more reporting.

July 18, 2008 @ 11:33 pm | Comment

[…] Miller of the South China Morning Post has generated somewhat doubtful outrages with an article alleging Beijing ordered bars not to serve blacks. For now, however, […]

July 19, 2008 @ 12:04 am | Pingback

Reuters? Sigh…

When are you guys going to learn?

Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on …

Looks like the China-bashing crowd is running out of ammunitions. But hey, there are still 20 days to go. 🙂

July 19, 2008 @ 12:46 am | Comment

This is not a rumor. It is a policy and a guideline, directly from those you should, and must, listen to.

July 19, 2008 @ 1:01 am | Comment

@AC

“When are you guys going to learn?”

In answer to your question, we’ll learn once China has these things: freedom of speech, freedom of the press, freedom of assembly, and an independent judiciary. Meaningful democratic reform would be nice too. Until then, the CCP will have a credibility problem. As you suggest, these recent allegations in SCMP may be rumors, but that’s not really the point. Rather, the point is that such stories gain credence precisely because they ring true. Just as important, China’s media cannot mount an effective defense against such rumors because it lacks credibility – an unfortunate consequence of its association with a regime that frowns on the free exchange of ideas.

You may prefer, AC, to remain with your fifty-center friends over at ‘Slog for China,’ where defending China against the predations of the western media is always the special of the day.

July 19, 2008 @ 1:43 am | Comment

Further proof that being a reporter in China can be very dangerous

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7514322.stm

July 19, 2008 @ 1:47 am | Comment

@Hong (Fu Jieshi/Ma Bole/Hong/Cao Cao or whoever)

So this is where you hang out now, eh?

What kind of story have you been making up on this blog lately?

🙂

July 19, 2008 @ 2:49 am | Comment

@Andy R

your descriptions of 50center’s responses were quite enlightening, then here’s the response you came up with: Can’t wait to see where this thread goes…

so can I call you 30 center from now?

July 19, 2008 @ 3:50 am | Comment

@AC

WTF?!

Interesting, but not exactly substantive. Perhaps you should stop stiffing glue and get with the program.

July 19, 2008 @ 4:15 am | Comment

@Hong

WTF?! Exactly!

You still owe people an explanation here:

http://tinyurl.com/6gx6g6

You are not that good a spoofer.

July 19, 2008 @ 5:21 am | Comment

It is an open secret that various levels of discrimination do exist at Beijing’s nightspots

http://youtube.com/watch?v=plQpLPy1eao

1. Gabrielle Union’s publicist is calling for celebrities to boycott the Los Angeles nightclub Mood, after the venue’s owner allegedly canceled the actress’ birthday party when he discovered she was African American.

“Racism” in nightclub admissions is commonplace around the world. In Japan, they even have signs that say “Japanese Only”.

The only anamoly here is that white patrons were given special treatment, as white people are given undeserved special treatment all over the world.

July 19, 2008 @ 8:38 am | Comment

anomaly*

July 19, 2008 @ 8:40 am | Comment

Ferin,

My respect for your intellectual powers seems to reach new limits on a daily basis.

All true, and if this blog were called “LA Duck” maybe we’d write about that.

Just because discrimination occurs in LA or Lichtenstein does nothing to mitigate that problem here in our own backyard.

July 19, 2008 @ 8:42 am | Comment

Blacks are not a perpetual victim class in China and therefore will not get special treatment if they do something wrong. In Japan (and all over the world), Nigerians have crime rates double that of the Japanese (that isn’t including “offenses”; which are minor transgressions) but they cry racism whenever they are sent to jail or whatever. It’s an old trick that no one falls for outside of the West.

In China it is probably only a handful of Africans who are causing trouble (just as any other group does) and getting “beaten up” but as usual they will pull the race card. Too bad it doesn’t work in China.

Racism is not a problem in China or Finland or other monoracial states because they have no racial minorities (ethnic discrimination is another thing).

July 19, 2008 @ 8:47 am | Comment

So in other words I really doubt the veracity of the rumor. It’s just Westerners trying to use black people’s “international victim status” to guilt trip Chinese people.

July 19, 2008 @ 8:49 am | Comment

Ferin you are truly a broken record. For that LA youtube clip, I like the way you googled and came up with an isolated incident from two years ago to make your definitive judgement. Always the same.

July 19, 2008 @ 9:55 am | Comment

So this is the scenario. One person said to another in a bar, in a joke, “Do you know that all Beijing bars are banning blacks?” Then a reporter was drinking a bar and heard it. Then immediately went home and wrote a report about it, and submitted to his boss. His boss asked “What evidence do you have about this?” The reporter said, “No evidence, I heard it in a bar”. The boss said, “Ok, that’s good enough! Publish right away!”

The, the “famous” and “reliable” South China Morning Post published this like a big story. Based on what? Any witness? Any source? Any channel? None, nothing. One sentence in a bar is the only “source”. So what is the justification for publishing this?

Then, all the other media, like BBC, New York Times, Washington Post, all became very high, immediately picked up this story.

Will this is acceptable, if I visit a US bar, and tell a stranger, “You know I heard that during this year’s US elections, all blacks will be banned from voting.” And a reporter from NY Times heard it, and published it as a headline news tomorrow: “US To Ban Blacks During This Election”

Please, don’t be too CNN.

July 19, 2008 @ 10:34 am | Comment

For that LA youtube clip

The youtube clip was in Canada, a different situation.

I like the way you googled and came up with an isolated incident from two years

On the other hand this “black ban” didn’t even happen… so I’m still one up 😉

July 19, 2008 @ 10:55 am | Comment

Actually I’m surprised none of you are familiar with this issue (well maybe not, not like any of you have any idea what racism is like in Western countries because you’re white).

If they see any undesirables they will ask for multiple forms of ID. It is a common complaint amongst Africans and blacks especially.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:12 am | Comment

“If they see any undesirables they will ask for multiple forms of ID. It is a common complaint amongst Africans and blacks especially.”

Same thing happens in Beijing, Ferin. Not that you’d know.

Ferin: If somebody said that black people are clearly inferior (morally, intellectually, etc.) to whites and Asians, would that be considered racist?

July 19, 2008 @ 11:20 am | Comment

Here are some more if you are genuinely interested..

===
http://www.wisn.com/news/16821939/detail.html?rss=mil&psp=news

John Jordan, a 40-year-old, black Milwaukee man, was invited by a friend to head down to the east side to Decibel and its Deep Bar Vodka Lounge.

“I was greeted by two security officers and they were like, ‘Hold on, wait a minute,’ and I was like, ‘Ah, guys are asking me for my identification.’ I was like, ‘Great’ with laughter,” Jordan said. “They told me no your pants are too baggy, and I said, ‘No, you’re joking.”
===

NYC:

A Kip’s Bay nightclub reached a settlement agreement in a Manhattan, NY federal court. They agreed to pay a $35,000 fine. Prosecutors had charged that the club discriminated against black patrons.

===

SF:

A group of citizens is alleging that a Castro bar owner discriminates against minorities by asking them to show multiple pieces of photo identification or the contents of their wallets to gain admittance to his two clubs.

Some gay African Americans expressed concern …

===

My personal favorite:

The 51-year-old woman – a self-professed druid priestess – had also accused the Fitzroy St nightclub and its bouncers of religious discrimination

They don’t like Druid priestesses.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:21 am | Comment

would that be considered racist?

and stupid.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:22 am | Comment

Would you consider either Kang Youwei or Liang Qichao to be Chinese?

July 19, 2008 @ 11:23 am | Comment

Why, because they’re Cantonese?

July 19, 2008 @ 11:26 am | Comment

That is, why are you asking?

July 19, 2008 @ 11:26 am | Comment

Why does The Wild Man of Hubei look like a foreigner?

http://www.smh.com.au/articles/2003/06/30/1056825326577.html

July 19, 2008 @ 11:30 am | Comment

Because both Liang Qichao and Kang Youwei have stated, both explicitly and implicitly, that the world is divided along a racialist hierarchy and that “the brown-skinned” peoples were clearly inferior to Whites and Asians. And they weren’t alone, racialist discourse, as part of a Social Darwinist worldview, had (has had?) a rather long shelf-life here in China. Just two months ago, I was having dinner with a local businessman whose words echoed Liang and Kang and other previous racialist theories when he told me that the visa situation was good, “we need to keep out black people and let in white people because the black people’s quality is too low.”

Now, I’ve heard just as bad or worse in Boston, but here’s the point: These attitudes exist everywhere. Denying it just to salve a battered psyche gets in the way of addressing the problem and moving forward.

Ps. And Ferin, you’ll love this one: Kang also once suggested the intermarriage of Whites and Chinese to “improve the Chinese racial characteristics.” He was in a bit of ‘scary eugenics’ kick for awhile.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:33 am | Comment

I’ve actually read that, and it of course was crap like much of the “thought” that existed in his day.

I don’t deny the attitude exists. I see their positive discrimination for whites as 100x worse than negative discrimination of blacks, however.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:39 am | Comment

you know why a piece of rumor like this, without a single shred of evidence to back it up, spreads so fast among blogs like this? because it makes u ppl high. oh China fucked up again! when we saw this thing, our 1st reaction is, please let it be false. and ur ppl’s 1st reaction is, god let this be true! otherwise you would have at least waited for some facts to emerge before you publish it.

deny all u want, but u know I m right.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:49 am | Comment

“I see their positive discrimination for whites as 100x worse than negative discrimination of blacks, however.”

Given the psychological baggage which over the years you have spewed forth on this site like last night’s jiaozi splattered across the floor and porcelain of the local hutong loo…imagine my shock.

I’m glad you admit that the attitude exists. Now, let us hope that China and the Chinese find a way to eliminate such attitudes from their hearts and minds quicker than has been the case elsewhere in the world. That would be a more impressive achievement than 100 CCTV towers or 1000 Soup Stadiums.

Ferin, no sane person would deny racism in the US or defend it. It’s abhorrent. It’s getting better, but not nearly fast enough. It is a lingering stench in the American house that must be eradicated once and for all.

But here’s the salient point: you come here looking to go “one up” and score points in a game that nobody else is playing. All I do is teach about China, the good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly. It’s not about making somebody “look bad” or defending anything. You need to unwind about 85 notches and join the conversation. It’s a blog, not therapy.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:50 am | Comment

Now, let us hope that China and the Chinese find a way to eliminate such attitudes from their hearts and minds quicker than has been the case elsewhere in the world.

So you’re asking China to be the only non-racist country in the world? I said the attitude exists in the world. Not in China exclusively.

Black people simply whine too much just like Western expats in China. The people who treat black people the worst are other black people with their immense black on black murder rates.

All I do is teach about China, the good, the bad, the beautiful and the ugly.

I’m not saying you don’t, but it’s been a while since you’ve posted anything but bad and ugly. I’m not a CCP stooge so I’m not asking you to lie, but something “neutral” every now and then (or well substantiated) would be nice.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:56 am | Comment

@Jeremiah,

What’s the point of all this? dont u know Kang/Liang learnt that eugenics shit from Darwin’s cousin?

‘My proposal is to make the encouragement of Chinese settlements of Africa a part of our national policy, in the belief that the Chinese immigrants would not only maintain their position, but that they would multiply and their descendants supplant the inferior Negro race,’ Sir Francis Galton wrote to Times.

‘I should expect that the African seaboard, now sparsely occupied by lazy, palavering savages, might in a few years be tenanted by industrious, order-loving Chinese, living either as a semidetached dependency of China, or else in perfect freedom under their own law.’

racism in the society in one thing, racism backed by the government is another thing. u know any racial discrimination acts against Blacks or Jews backed by the government in Chinese history? like what US did to Chinese? Japeness? Blacks?

July 19, 2008 @ 12:04 pm | Comment

I’m guessing this is just a stupid rumor spread by someone keen to discredit further the Chinese in the lead up to the Olympics.

There’s no need to spread false rumors in order to discredit the Chinese regime. Those fascists in Beijing are doing a fine old job at doing that themselves, wouldn’t you agree?

Meanwhile, there is an interesting conversation taking place about ant-China ‘discourse’ taking place over at the http://www.underthejacaranda.wordpress.com blog, the views there are worth considering.

July 19, 2008 @ 12:15 pm | Comment

I think these rumors are false, designed to discredit the Chinese in the lead up to the Olympics, with the aim of scaring people away from attending.

There’s no need to try to discredit the regime in Beijing with fasle rumors, as they are already doing a mighty fine job of discrediting themselves, don’t ya think?

There’s an interesting conversation about anti-China ‘discourse’ taking place over at the http://www.underthejacaranda.wordpress.com site that’s worth checking out too.

July 19, 2008 @ 12:22 pm | Comment

I think these rumors are false, designed to discredit the Chinese in the lead up to the Olympics, with the aim of scaring people away from attending.

There’s no need to try to discredit the regime in Beijing with fasle rumors, as they are already doing a mighty fine job of discrediting themselves, don’t ya think?

July 19, 2008 @ 12:23 pm | Comment

There’s no need to try to discredit the regime in Beijing with fasle rumors, as they are already doing a mighty fine job of discrediting themselves, don’t ya think?

Yes.

July 19, 2008 @ 12:24 pm | Comment

Ah, moving the goal posts are we…I do not deny that racism in the US is of a more virulent and destructive quality than that found almost anywhere else, 300-odd years of institutional African slavery is a crime against humanity of incalculable horror. But the issue of debate was whether or not any such racist/racialist attitudes exist in the Chinese milieu, and, regardless of provenance, that they do.

Saying that it is worse in the US, while most assuredly true 100 times over, does not diminish this fact, but merely commits the error, per Mencius, of 以五十步笑百步.

July 19, 2008 @ 2:53 pm | Comment

[…] Granite Studio (YJ), Danwei, Beijing Boyce and a number of others have jumped to the call and found no evidence […]

July 19, 2008 @ 2:56 pm | Pingback

I think all this is just a storm in a glass of water.

A rumor that in another time (not so close to the OG) would be discarded as mere gossip.

Attitudes of CH to blacks (darker skinned people than oneself..) or to other people with different ethnic characteristics? A mixture of the kind of petty racism to be found everywhere, but I think it is much closer to unfamiliarity.

My younger sister, when she was still a small kid, the first time she saw a black person cried very loud in front of him (to the embarrassment of my mother)
“Look mum a man made of chocolate!”
Was that sheer racism or just a normal surprise reaction at something unfamiliar?

One last thought. I think if Obama wins the election, it will do much to make darker skinned people more familiar to those who are now still somewhat unfamiliar with them.

July 19, 2008 @ 3:16 pm | Comment

“Can’t wait to see where this thread goes…”

For course, bad news for China is good news for you.

July 19, 2008 @ 4:06 pm | Comment

Actually, I don’t know if you can argue that racism today is worse in the US than say China or many other places. I would say that because the US has always involved a mix and clash of cultures, and the awful moral cancer of slavery, that racism has been more of an overt issue in the US than in a lot of other places. But on the other hand, if you look at studies of Muslims and how they have integrated into “the West,” all of them will show that in general, Muslims in the US fare better and feel more a part of the larger country than Muslims in Western Europe.

China has its “ethnic minorities” and all kinds of funny stereotypes and clashes between regions, but there is still a lack of exposure broadly across China to different races and cultures (some more than others).

And by the same token, I was talking to a friend of mine today who shared with me some experiences about a Mexican American man and his Korean American girlfriend, who went to Mexico recently for an arts festival. And they were treated very badly at times because of his “Chinese” girlfriend!

Racism and more generally the fear of the Other exists in every culture on this earth to varying degrees. In spite of America’s deep racial problems (and don’t even get me started on the sexism, which I would argue is even more ingrained and so internalized that it’s barely even questioned), it still remains the most successful model of a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society on the planet.

It’s like democracy. It pretty much sucks, but it’s the best thing we’ve come up with thus far.

July 19, 2008 @ 4:16 pm | Comment

Actually, I don’t know if you can argue that racism today is worse in the US than say China or many other places. I would say that because the US has always involved a mix and clash of cultures

I think this is why it is actually worse than in China, because most of the major ethnic groups in the U.S have a bad history with each other. I’m not talking just about black/white conflict, but the “Latino”/black race warfare gets really bad too.

In China it’s mostly ignorance and a lack of experience, but they would probably learn to distrust foreigners more (like Japan and Korea) the more they are exposed to them.

it still remains the most successful model of a multi-ethnic, multi-cultural society on the planet.

It’s like democracy. It pretty much sucks, but it’s the best thing we’ve come up with thus far.

Most places are “multicultural”.. India, Russia, China, South America, Southeast Asia, etc. As bad as China can be there is still less violent race/ethnic conflict in China (and before anyone says they “are all the same race”; they aren’t) than in any of these places. But then again it’s hard to separate normal crimes and “hate crimes” with Russia/Brazil/USA’s astronomical crime rates.

As far as democracy being the best system we have, no one’s really been given much of a chance to try something else without bombings and sanctions, and even when they do “vote” for someone the U.S/Britain does not like they still get a complimentary “regime change”.

July 19, 2008 @ 4:37 pm | Comment

And they were treated very badly at times because of his “Chinese” girlfriend! it’s the best thing we’ve come up with thus far.

Left a part out, sorry.

Anyway this is a reason why I think multiculturalism is a failure by default. People are too stupid and ignorant to get along with people of their own race and religion, so mixing them up together now should be avoided unless in exceptional cases.

Maybe after some kind of breakthrough in biotech turns everyone at least moderately intelligent, multiculturalism won’t work.

July 19, 2008 @ 4:38 pm | Comment

So is it true, as WaPo reports, that China is becoming less friendly to foreigners?

Michael

July 19, 2008 @ 8:28 pm | Comment

”
I think these rumors are false, designed to discredit the Chinese in the lead up to the Olympics, with the aim of scaring people away from attending.

There’s no need to try to discredit the regime in Beijing with fasle rumors, as they are already doing a mighty fine job of discrediting themselves, don’t ya think?”

Quote of the day.

July 19, 2008 @ 9:21 pm | Comment

I did some asking around and wasn’t able to come up with anything either. There is a related article in today’s Globe and Mail, though: Africans in Beijing harassed as Olympics approach, following on yesterday’s Beijing busy welcoming the world as it turns away its ethnic minorities.

July 19, 2008 @ 9:27 pm | Comment

“Racism is not a problem in China or Finland or other monoracial states because they have no racial minorities (ethnic discrimination is another thing).”

Posted by ferin July 19, 2008 @ 8:47 am

“As bad as China can be there is still less violent race/ethnic conflict in China (and before anyone says they “are all the same race”; they aren’t) than in any of these places.”

Posted by ferin July 19, 2008 @ 4:37 pm

This American troll not only can’t be bothered with reading other people’s comments before replying to them, he doesn’t even read his own comments before posting them.

July 19, 2008 @ 9:38 pm | Comment

From the link Brendan posted above, I’m copying it below because it corresponds fairly closely with conversations I’ve had with African and African-American friends in Beijing. I HIGHLY doubt any government official would make it a policy to discriminate against people of color at the Games, but the kind of discrimination described below is quite routine here in Beijing, as it is, sadly, in many other places as well:

“In interviews Friday, a number of Africans said they are facing discriminatory rules from Beijing’s bars and nightclubs as the Olympics approach.

A woman from Liberia, who is co-owner of a hair salon in Beijing, said she was outraged when she visited a popular Beijing nightclub and found that the entrance fee for black people was twice as high as for other foreigners.

Even if they managed to enter the club, the black patrons were prohibited from sitting at the tables, she said.

In another incident, she said, an African-owned bar was raided this week by police with dogs, and the customers were required to provide urine samples for drug tests.

“When the police come, you have to run,” she said. “I’ve lived in Holland and the United States and it was never like this. There’s no human rights here. It’s racist and it makes me feel very bad.”

If the police are now ordering bars to prohibit black people from entering, it is highly unfair, she said. “Every race has good people and bad people. You can’t blame all blacks for drugs. If a person is not causing a problem, you shouldn’t bother them.”

Two Nigerian businessmen said they were required to show their passports before being allowed to enter a Beijing nightclub last weekend. Black people who could not produce their passports were barred from entering the club, but other foreigners were not required to show their passports, they said.

“This had never happened before to me,” one of the Nigerians said. “I was very angry. This is racism.”

The Africans spoke on condition of anonymity, fearing more harassment from the police if they are identified. The Nigerians, interviewed at a bar, asked that the bar not be identified because they were worried that it could be raided if the police learned that Africans congregate there.”

July 19, 2008 @ 9:44 pm | Comment

The new visa policy is just ridiculous. In trying to stop foreign human rights protestors going to Beijing by making it difficult for everyone to go there/stay, the Chinese government is doing the equivalent of using a nuclear weapon to get rid of an ant hill.

July 19, 2008 @ 10:03 pm | Comment

“Racism is not a problem in China or Finland or other monoracial states because they have no racial minorities (ethnic discrimination is another thing).”

Posted by ferin July 19, 2008 @ 8:47 am

“As bad as China can be there is still less violent race/ethnic conflict in China (and before anyone says they “are all the same race”; they aren’t) than in any of these places.”

Posted by ferin July 19, 2008 @ 4:37 pm

This pathetic little troll not only can’t be bothered with reading other people’s comments before replying to them. He obviously doesn’t even read his own comments before posting them.

I also find it very interesting that the same person who keeps pointing out cases of racial discrimination in the evil US of A (ferin’s home country, by the way) even from years ago makes a statement like “Black people simply whine too much”. Could be straight from the mouth of a right-wing Republican redneck I once met.

July 19, 2008 @ 10:07 pm | Comment

@Moneyball

Based on your reply, I guess you would consider yourself one of the 50 centers in question, correct?

Call me what you want. I really don’t see how my second post influenced the debate on this topic at all, since it was only replied to by 2 people (including you). So if I got paid 30 cents for the post, I guess I didn’t deserve it. (In fact, having been written for a bit of fun, I would say that my post got 2 more replies than it deserved.)

Besides I think my prediction of the pro-china defense was pretty accurate. Not that I should pat myself on the back, when you’ve heard the same strategy employed over and over again, it gets pretty easy to predict how arguments over these type of stories will play out.

But I guess the 50 centers would say the same thing about anti-CCP folks, right? That we always make the same arguments? (It would have been more amusing if you had given a similar summary of the anti-CCP strategy, but alas, you seem to take debating on blogs a bit too personally for such a reply.)

July 19, 2008 @ 10:18 pm | Comment

“Racism is not a problem in China or Finland or other monoracial states because they have no racial minorities (ethnic discrimination is another thing).”

Posted by ferin July 19, 2008 @ 8:47 am

“As bad as China can be there is still less violent race/ethnic conflict in China (and before anyone says they “are all the same race”; they aren’t) than in any of these places.”

Posted by ferin July 19, 2008 @ 4:37 pm

This pathetic little troll not only can’t be bothered with reading other people’s comments before replying to them. He obviously doesn’t even read his own comments before posting them.

I also find it very interesting that the same person who keeps pointing out cases of racial discrimination in the evil US of A (ferin’s home country, by the way) even from years ago makes a statement like “Black people simply whine too much”. Could be straight from the mouth of a right-wing Republican redneck I once met. Maybe that’s ferin’s real identity?

July 19, 2008 @ 10:20 pm | Comment

@Jeremiah

“Saying that it is worse in the US, while most assuredly true 100 times over, does not diminish this fact, but merely commits the error, per Mencius, of 以五十步笑百步.”

I can’t believe this is coming from a history major. The US had a long history of INSTITUTIONALIZED RACISM against it’s minorities, while PRC never had such problem. Who is “五十步笑百步” here?

If you think that the current racial relations in north America is better than the ones in China, then you are delusional, my friend. It always baffles me why you think you have the moral high ground on this subject. Of couese Westerners have the right to criticize China’s minority policies, but doing so would only make you a hypocrite.

July 19, 2008 @ 11:26 pm | Comment

AC,

That’s the most baffling comment I’ve read in a long while and I suggest you reread my comment more carefully.

I said: “Saying that it is worse in the US, while most assuredly true 100 times over…”

“If you think that the current racial relations in north America is better than the ones in China”

Which part of “most assuredly true 100 times over” confused you? Shall I provide a crib sheet next time?

All I’m doing is to suggest that Beijing does have a problem with discrimination against people of color and there have been cases which warrant attention. When discussing this, many Chinese “patriots” “counter” this argument by saying racism is worse in the US (五十步) or even suggest that “racism and discrimination do not exist in China”. It’s a classic fallacy and I believe PR types call it ‘misdirection.’ Point conceded: Race relations are a bigger problem in the US than in China. Fine, it still doesn’t address the issue on the table.

I couldn’t agree more that race relations were of a fundamentally different nature in US history than in Chinese history and as I’ve acknowledged several times: the state of race relations in the US is horrific and has been for a long time.

That does not however prove untrue the statement that there are some problems here in Beijing, where I live, with discrimination towards people of color–including friends of mine–which I feel merit discussion towards greater understanding and a possible solution, while at no point in making this suggestion do I attempt to establish any form of equivalency between the two histories.

Please read for comprehension next time. It makes my life easier as I don’t have to waste time repeating the same points over again.

July 20, 2008 @ 12:25 am | Comment

As for being a hypocrite, well…I don’t share you and your compatriots’ fetishizations of the nation-state and ethnicity as the sole foci of human loyalty and identity. In that, at least, I agree with Kang Youwei. (cf. Kang’s commentary on the 大同）

July 20, 2008 @ 12:28 am | Comment

@Jeremiah

Please pardon my poor reading skills. Could you please be kind enough to rephrase the following statement so I can understand it?

“Saying that it is worse in the US, while most assuredly true 100 times over, does not diminish this fact, but merely commits the error, per Mencius, of 以五十步笑百步.”

I thought the meaning of the above statement is:

“Saying that it is worse in the US” commits the error of 以五十步笑百步.

In other words, you were accusing ferin of making the mistake of “以五十步笑百步”. Did I get this wrong?

July 20, 2008 @ 12:56 am | Comment

It is a well known fact that many Chinese people don’t like black people. It’s also a well known fact that many Chinese people claim that there is no racism in China. You think that’s a contradiction? That’s because you don’t understand China.

P.S.: To all those fenqing out there:

I didn’t say all Chinese people, I didn’t even say most Chinese people, I said MANY as in A LOT.

July 20, 2008 @ 1:05 am | Comment

There is no racism in China. Whoever claims differently just doesn’t understand China.

July 20, 2008 @ 1:08 am | Comment

@ Andy R

I was merely saying you are stupid, more than 50 centers,
based on the responses from u and the responses from 50 centers (as you imagined)
that’s all.

July 20, 2008 @ 1:14 am | Comment

the key thing is not what happened in the past and what’s happnening in a bar in China, and a bar in US, when an African comes in. you cant possibly get a full picture of that.
the key thing is how China and US government/politicians have been treating racial minorities.

July 20, 2008 @ 1:19 am | Comment

Jeez…when was the last time you people were in a bar/club? There’s plenty of bars/clubs from Germany to Thailand to the US that have bouncers/managers/owners that’ll discriminate. It doesn’t make it right but shit happens, these comments are just ridiculous.

July 20, 2008 @ 2:38 am | Comment

@ MIchael Turton – I can’t explain it but I just got a year-long multi-entry visa with 60 day stays. I’m in California, so I’m sure that’s part of the explanation – but still…most of the paperwork I gave to the visa service to give to the Chinese consulate was returned to me (and some they didn’t even bother to take).

The one thing I did have to do was write a letter saying that I would not be engaging in any “filming” – I work in the entertainment industry.

So it’s odd. I provided all this documentation for this trip, but the next time I go, I already have the visa, so apparently I won’t need to provide anything (as in the past).

July 20, 2008 @ 3:39 am | Comment

@Moneyball

Nice response, real mature. Thanks for your input.

July 20, 2008 @ 4:07 am | Comment

so this story is pretty much false…but what’s real is how fast it spreads like a wild fire in west media over night, and how people react to it. this whole thing didnt reveal much about Chinese, but revealed some true nature of some others.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/2047930/posts#comment

July 20, 2008 @ 4:12 am | Comment

Oh, for god’s sake – free republic?! That is one of the worst fringe/hate sites on the web. You want to find something to confirm your worst suspicions/fear-mongering, you will find it there. Just as you will find similar nut-jobs on some Chinese boards.

July 20, 2008 @ 4:26 am | Comment

So far this is the biggest news org I’ve seen carry the story (and they actually add something to it with their own research…). The rest has all been blogs, so I think we have a ways to go before describing it as spreading across western media like wildfire. (Someone on another blog mentioned CNN has picked it up, but since CNN has become a synonym in China for Western media, I have my doubts.)

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/LAC.20080719.CHINA19/TPStory/TPInternational/Asia/

July 20, 2008 @ 4:47 am | Comment

There’s no human rights here. It’s racist and it makes me feel very bad.”

Sucks, but developing countries are harsh. That’s probably why she was in Holland to begin with.

It is a well known fact that many Chinese people don’t like black people.

Actually it is a well-known myth spread by whites who are self-concious about how they enslaved and murdered black people by the millions. Yes, many Chinese people don’t like blacks but even more whites hate them. Arabs and Indians hate blacks and so do Mestizos/Amerinds.

Who’s to blame? Probably a combination of European propaganda along with high crime rates among Africans.

“Racism is not a problem in China or Finland or other monoracial states because they have no racial minorities (ethnic discrimination is another thing).”

Sorry I wasn’t aware you were reading or I would have been more specific so that even the very stupid could understand. Finland has a handful of Sami but they aren’t a significant % of the population. A significant portion of China has mixed blood but they aren’t really aware of that for the most part. When it comes to actual racial minorities there are a few but not enough to create the kind of large conflicts that exist in the U.S.

July 20, 2008 @ 4:51 am | Comment

There’s no human rights here. It’s racist and it makes me feel very bad.”

Sucks, but developing countries are harsh. That’s probably why she was in Holland to begin with.

It is a well known fact that many Chinese people don’t like black people.

Actually it is a well-known myth spread by whites who are self-concious about how they enslaved and murdered black people by the millions. Yes, many Chinese people don’t like blacks but even more whites hate them. Arabs and Indians hate blacks and so do Mestizos/Amerinds.

Who’s to blame? Probably a combination of European propaganda along with high crime rates among Africans.

“Racism is not a problem in China or Finland or other monoracial states because they have no racial minorities (ethnic discrimination is another thing).”

Sorry I wasn’t aware you were reading or I would have been more specific so that even the very stupid could understand. Finland has a handful of Sami but they aren’t a significant % of the population. A significant portion of China has mixed blood but they aren’t really aware of that for the most part. When it comes to actual racial minorities there are a few but not enough to create the kind of large conflicts that exist in the U.S. Instead just add “pra

July 20, 2008 @ 4:51 am | Comment

AC,

Perhaps I should have phrased clearer, my apologies. That is: To say that the US has a race problem does not deny or diminish the fact that racial discrimination exists in China as well while at no point does it attempt to suggest an equivalency in the historical experience of colonized/enslaved groups in either place.

Why is this important? While I can’t speak for other commentators, but for me this issue is one specific to the city I live and limited to a handful of incidents. I’d like to see these incident discussed openly and addressed constructively.

Yet doing so gets sidetracked by ‘defenders’ of China who attempt to drag what is a local issue into a larger and less productive dialogue of “China vs. the US” and make asinine and unsupportable statements like “Chinese people can’t be racist,” or “There is no racism in China” or else ‘counter’ by pointing out the racism is worse in the US and so cannot be discussed in China.

It’s as if a Beijing resident studying in Boston were to suggest that despite the “Big Dig” the amount of cars on the road was still causing gridlock and harming air quality. It’s a legitimate concern worthy of discussion. If that Beijinger in Boston were to further suggest that one of the reasons for these problems is that Americans drive too much and are too attached to their cars as status symbols, I would have to agree that this was a valid observation and certainly highlights one or two of the possible root causes of the problem.

Now to adopt the methods too often seen on this board by so-called Chinese ‘patriots,’ 1) I would first dismiss the concerns outright because a Chinese person could not possibly understand American psychology on cars; 2) I would point out the air quality and traffic are often worse in Beijing, therefore implying that opening a discussion on Boston traffic and air quality is hypocritical; 3) I would finally accuse our Beijinger in Boston of not really caring about air, traffic, or the time it takes to get to Fenway, but simply being an America-basher with an agenda to bring down the republic. (It’s also possible that they might be a Yankee fan as well which would mean all bets were off, but I digress…)

The other analogy I thought of would be a Chinese graduate student studying labor relations in the US commenting on the often deplorable safety conditions in the US mining industry and suggesting solutions. We all know the disastrous record of the Chinese coal mining industry in terms of worker safety, but that shouldn’t in any way minimize the validity of the observations from our fictional student in the US.

Are we so in love with the nation-state or ethnic identity that every issue has to be forced into a nei/wai framework? What of common humanity? What of shared community concerns?

July 20, 2008 @ 5:52 am | Comment

AC,

Yeah, that was a cheap shot last night and I’m sorry. In a pathetic defense, it was late and I’m moving this weekend and so was surrounded by boxes until past midnight. If you’ve ever done a big move, you know what that’s like. I was tired and cranky and attempting to be glib but came off insulting. My apologies.

July 20, 2008 @ 5:54 am | Comment

I take it that I’m not a “Chinese defender” then because my argument is just that even if it did happen it’s not a big deal. It happens everywhere. That’s all that needs to be said, no need to dig into the early 20th century with speculative pontification about how racism in China may or may not have developed.

China (much) has bigger problems to deal with.

July 20, 2008 @ 6:01 am | Comment

has much bigger problems to deal with**

sorry

July 20, 2008 @ 6:09 am | Comment

a few weeks ago, a british indian boy who works for tata consulting in UK told me, there was a ranking done by some organization in Swizterland or some european countries said the corruption in India is much much worse than China, then i just asked with curiosity, i said “isnt it true there is free of speech in India and media are not controled by the government, more freedom and democracy, then i said why there are much more corruption in India, what are the media are doing, who they are speaking for? i under thand the corruption in China though, because the government control the media?”

July 20, 2008 @ 8:46 am | Comment

Great discussion here guys, both insightful and entertaining. As an African-American living in Sichuan Province for the past 4 years I have experienced first hand their racism on almost every level. I personally have no doubt whatsoever that they do indeed have this policy of discrimination and at times outright hatred for us, it is sickening. I mean it has no basis here, there is no history of slavery like we had back at home so I am both astonished and appalled by their behavior. I admit some of this is born out of ignorance, lack of education and at times outright miseducation. Part of the reason that I endure the hatred is to give them reason not to hate, a reason not to be so ignorant. It is my hope that through my actions they can see that my people are indeed well-educated and indeed well cultured, maybe I can change a few hearts and the future may not be so bleak for a country with so much potential, as I believe most Chinese people would like to get along with others.

July 20, 2008 @ 12:48 pm | Comment

@wayaround

Maybe you should change your moniker into “offtopic”.

@Ferin

You should listen to Ra. He has spent more time in China than you have, so he knows more about racism there and if it’s “a big deal” or not.

And no, you are no “Chinese defender”, you are just an average American troll, no real job, no girlfriend and no hobbies either, so you spend your time writing inane comments on topics you know nothing about.

By the way, you haven’t explained your self-contradiction yet. How can China be a “monoracial state” without racial minorities (as you stated in comment No. 32), if Chinese people are not “all the same race” (as you stated in comment No. 60)?

July 20, 2008 @ 3:26 pm | Comment

@Ra
Interesting to hear the experiences of an african-american expat.

That CH or any other country does not have a past of slavery like in US does not prevent it against racism specially against “deeper colored” people. Both things do not go together. Actually few countries has done more to fight against “visceral” racism like the US.

My experience is that when people unused to it met for first time a very much darker african, the first reaction is often negative: afraid, distrustful, cautious.

Reaction by countries may vary. I myself was asked in the US once where I came from, because I was… too dark! Too much sun tanned I think. The guy could not believe that my hometown was more to the north located than NY!

It would be interesting to see, if the Obama effect will changes this. I am not a big fun of him, but just because of is origins and looks it will be an interesting presidency.

July 20, 2008 @ 4:16 pm | Comment

of course there is racial discrimination problems, that is why chinese need to be educated of this kind of ignorance, but hollywood films are not helpful either, many of them describe black people as criminals, rude ,drug dealer, uneducated, this is probabbly the only source that chinese can get the impression of black people

July 21, 2008 @ 12:48 am | Comment

I have posted this elsewhere, but I thought it is pertinent to this discussion.

Now we actually do have evidence that Tibetans and Uighurs are being racially profiled. Shanghaiist has identified a set of security regulations from Shanghai’s people square, which includes following:

Whenever anyone that can be identified as “Tibetans”, “Xinjiang Uyghurs” and “Qinghai Hualong Hui’s” enters the building, please report them to the security department. Security guards will persuade them to leave the building, or follow them till they do so.

对可以确认身份的外来“西藏人”，“新疆维吾尔族“，“青海华隆回族人“进入大厦，请立即报告保安部，保安人员会力劝其离开大厦，离开前要全程监控。

http://shanghaiist.com/2008/07/19/racial_profiling_at_shanghais_jw_ma.php#more

July 21, 2008 @ 1:37 am | Comment

The Left has as many totalitarians and nutjobs as the right, unfortunately. And as many people who are incapable of seeing nuance.

My own feelings about the Games in China are mixed. The crackdown on dissidents is the opposite of what the Chinese government promised the Olympic committee. The forced relocation of thousands of Beijingers from their homes is also a tragedy. But do I want to see some kind of violence or disaster at the Games? Of course not.

And quite frankly, responding to stupid, hateful nationalism with more stupid, hateful nationalism is, not to put too fine a point on it, stupid.

July 21, 2008 @ 2:39 am | Comment

And as a p.s….well, two.

I’d say most people posting to online forums tend to have extreme views of one variety or another. That’s what motivates them to post. The other motivations are common interests and community-building – unfortunately the extremists often down the others out.

Also, I am going to repost a part of what I posted above in response to our pal HongXing:

the Olympics have ALWAYS involved politics and protest. Always. Name ONE Game that hasn’t. There isn’t one. I am honestly flabbergasted by the way the protests caught the Chinese Central government so flat-footed. They were completely predictable, and if you want to host the Games, you ought to know this is a part of what you’ll get. The reactions of the government remind me of China 15 years ago. Opening the door and then slamming it shut while the guests are entering.

And as usual, I am looking forward to seeing friends, speaking Chinese and visiting a country that I truly love, and want the best for.

July 21, 2008 @ 2:47 am | Comment

to Hemulen

i don’t see there is anything wrong with that, everyone knows there are seperatists from these ethnics chinese, and there were violence happened before by these ethnic chinese, i have nothing to say about seperation, but i hate violence, its good to be caucious for public security, if they were persecuted without reasons or physical evidence, i agree to condemn the human right abuse

>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
I have posted this elsewhere, but I thought it is pertinent to this discussion.

Now we actually do have evidence that Tibetans and Uighurs are being racially profiled. Shanghaiist has identified a set of security regulations from Shanghai’s people square, which includes following:

Whenever anyone that can be identified as “Tibetans”, “Xinjiang Uyghurs” and “Qinghai Hualong Hui’s” enters the building, please report them to the security department. Security guards will persuade them to leave the building, or follow them till they do so.

对可以确认身份的外来“西藏人”，“新疆维吾尔族“，“青海华隆回族人“进入大厦，请立即报告保安部，保安人员会力劝其离开大厦，离开前要全程监控。

July 21, 2008 @ 5:58 am | Comment

Have not heard of anyone in China, black, white or any other color being targeted and killed on account of their race only.
Countless examples in Western Europe the UK and also of course Russia (Moscow has the world’s largest skinhead population guilty of numerous racial attacks and murders – mostly lightly punished).

Chinese are not politically correct. They will rudely stare at someone with blonde hair, be extremely curious about black skin – but these are natural reactions of people raised in a mainly monoracial state. While certainly very bad mannered, this curiousity is not impelled by any sense of racial superiority or inferiority – thus is not strictly speaking racism.

As I thought the original article was completely unsubstantiated rubbish – written by one of those many Westerners desperate to see China fall flat on its face in the coming few weeks.

July 21, 2008 @ 9:00 am | Comment

Ecodelta,

How are you able to verify that Ra is really African and not a sock with an axe to grind? No offense to Ra and his opinion, but really, I’m just curious? For the moderators of this board, why not go out and talk to a bar owner, or email one? Or email some, I don’t know, actual blacks in Beijing?

100 comments about what was rumored to be a rumor, confirmed to be a rumor, but damn it, we’ve got some China bashing/defending to do!

Hey, just to have a slight whiff of legitimacy – instead of the usual screeds – practice a little due diligence.

July 21, 2008 @ 10:48 am | Comment

And to Jeremiah,

I think its poor form (I wont call this journalism) to post on a rumor, have it quickly dashed by someone not quite as lazy as you seem to be, and still manage to get in a shot at China for being a place that practices discrimination.

I’ll play; I’m black, lived in China for a few years, own a (very) small China related enterprise in the U.S., and I’ll take bars in China over bars in much of the rest of the world any day of the week. Peru and Ecuador, for starters, are countries where certain bars have a policy of not even allowing blacks entry, let alone serving them.

Just my opinion of course, but stick to bashing China for it’s human rights record, lack of openness, assaults on journalistic freedom, etc, but give them some credit when it comes to dealing with race.

And before I get called a 50 center or whatever, let me just say that the moderators of this forum are welcome to contact me, though I don’t want my email address made public. I just really think you guys are so rabid in pointing out Chinese flaws that you fail to realize the depth of the flaws worldwide.

James

July 21, 2008 @ 11:03 am | Comment

James, Jeremiah said in the opening sentence he was hoping it was “a hysterical rumor run amok.” It was not poor form at all. If he said it was a fact, that would be a different story. And as more information came to light he updated the post.

I have known some blacks living here. Unfortunately, they found racism quite prevalent. Nearly every Chinese friend of mine tells me quite openly that Chinese are very, um, race-conscious. You’ll find elements of racism in every society, but some societies are better than others in reining it in. I think this situation is slowly improving as China opens up and will hopefully be in full reverse in a generation or two. America has its own history of racism to deal with, I know.

James, if you think this blog is “rabid” in pointing out Chinese flaws, you don’t have to come here. You are totally wrong, of course – Jeremiah and Lisa and I and many others here love China and have chosen to live here. Have you read my posts about America? I guess you can say I am “rabid” about pointing out the evils of the Bush administration or the gullibility of the American votes, but again you’d be entirely wrong. Criticism is healthy. If it’s done with a message of hatred, of racism of inciting violence that’s another story. You will not see that here, except in the fenqing comments, ironically enough.

I am getting real tired of the commenters who see “anti-China” sentiment everywhere.

July 21, 2008 @ 11:25 am | Comment

Africans consider boycott of Beijing Olympics – “China’s Strict Visa Conditions Threaten Olympics”

http://www.thisdayonline.com/nview.php?id=117382

July 21, 2008 @ 12:32 pm | Comment

It appears that my comment has added a dimension to the discussion that was missing, an individual that is at least claiming to be African-American (not African, like poster Heiheianan mispoke /misread/freudian slipped, or do you Heiheianan, like most of the Chinese people I have met over the past 4 years also believe that any person of color is “Fei Zhou Ren”?) Of course no one can truly conclude my nationality or “color” if you will via a website, so I concede the point; That being stated, I am a brother form the southside of Chicago, Loyola University, and prior to my coming to China I was Promotions Coordinator for ESPN Radio in Chicago. That is all verifiable if you wish to research it, so I am not some hack with an axe to grind as was stated before, just a guy with a personal opinion based on actual experiences and hoping to add some clarity to the topic. The Chinese are often fond of saying “If you didn’t want anyone to know you did something, you shouldn’t have done it” It is this kind of prevalent hypocrisy that motivates me to write and share with the board. As of my experiences I suppose the most outward display of racism comes from the umbrellas. Most of them use an umbrella everyday to “shield” themselves from the sun. When I asked about this odd behavior, I was told ” I don’t want to be dark and black, it is very ugly.” I am talking about 75% percent of the people walking around on daily basis carrying an UMBRELLA so that there skin is white and “pure”. If I had a dollar for the number of times I have been called “Hei Ren” and “Hei Gui” and Fei Zhou Hei Wer”, all disgusting slurs aimed at anyone of African descent I’d be Warren Buffet. These people hate us. And most chillingly I will be walking and see and hear the parents pointing at me and educating the children to say these horrific words. The movies don’t help in many instances, but my own Chinese teacher was educated in Chongqing, he told me that American expats would come here and denigrate the brothers and sisters in the U.S. and taught him all this nonsense about our penchant forlaziness, imbecility and a fondness for rape. Heiheianan, I categorically refuse to, as you say “give the Chinese some credit for “dealing” with race. Just your choice of the word “dealing” tells me more that I need to know about your perception of us “colored folk” .I would suggest you rest your own demons of race relations before you take on the monumental task of covering for the bigoted racists you seem so selflessly ready to defend.

July 21, 2008 @ 1:29 pm | Comment

http://www.clickafrique.com/Magazine/ST010/CP0000002878.aspx#comments more people are catching wind of this

July 21, 2008 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

@heiheianan

I think you got already the answer directly from Raj himself. If you have any doubts about him, why don’t just ask him directly.
Hhhhmm… do you have any problem asking him?

As I said, there is usually a problem or at leas unfamiliarity, with people that look much different than the local ones. And CH is no exception no matter what.

Instead of scuttling the problem just face it (instead of try to save face), it is the first step to solve it.

@raj
I have observed that custom in Asia of wearing umbrellas to protect skin against getting too tanned. I would not consider it racism in all cases.

For example, not long ago similar custom was usual in my own country to protect the skin against the sun. Why? If you had tanned skin it meant you were a mere worker forced to work on the fields under the sun, you belonged to the lower under classes.

If you skin was whiter, it meant you did not have to work on the fields because you were rich; you belonged to higher status classes.

Whiter skin was a status symbol, in some countries in Asia is still so. A darker skinned person is considered to be a rural worker with all that comes with it: poorer, not so well educated, not so good manners, etc.

Curiously the situation in EU is now reversed. Now if you can get a tanned skin (unless it is your natural color) it means you are rich enough to afford and expensive holidays in a good sunny tourist resort.

In Germany it is so popular to get tanned that you can find shops with UV machines on every corner where one can get his skin tanned (or burned).
It is not unusual to find persons, 100% German blood, and still so dark skinned as some of African origin.

Status symbol is reversed, now dark skin is very fashionable and beloved by status conscious persons. Too white skin is considered now ugly!

Given some time, we may even see that development in the future in Asia.

July 21, 2008 @ 2:43 pm | Comment

By the way, what is wrong with being of African origin. All Homo Sapiens Sapiens came from Africa.

Unless you are not an Homo Sapiens Sapiens.

Tsk tsk tsk. People should show more respect for their venerable ancestors.

I thought that was always the case in CH 😉

July 21, 2008 @ 2:47 pm | Comment

Ra: I’m pretty sure you are a white guy trying to bash up on Chinese through false accusations of racism. Otherwise you are a black man trying to apply the modern Western paradigm of race onto the vastly different society of China.

Chinese people may be overly curious to the point of rudeness when it comes to people who look different to themselves, but that is the result of having being raised in a monoracial society all their lives. If a Chinese man landed in the middle of Africa, being the only Chinese around I am sure he would also attract a lot or attention.

Chinese may mistakenly believe you to be a “fei zhou ren” – how is that racist?
Is it anymore racist than assuming any white person can speak English – as is often the case in Asia? Sure it may not be polite to make an assumption, but the charge of racism is way over the top.

As for “Hei ren” that is a perfectly legitmate term – just as “bai ren” means white person. “hei gui” is pejorative, but in Hong Kong the terms “gwai lo” (guilao) or “gwai tau”, or “bak gwai” are all commonly used to refer to white people. Gweilao has become so common in usage that it has lost its ability to offend. So I doubt that a person who refers to you as “hei gui,” has any real intent to ridicule you, still less would it represent in any way his views(if indeed he has any) on race at all.

All the same it is quite reasonable that you would feel offended, and as Chinese begin to come into contact with more and more different people, they should indeed learn to be more sensitive to the feelings of others.

If you said Chinese can be extremely rude and insensitive I would completely agree with you. If you said some have negative stereotypes about blacks, I would somewhat agree with you.
But saying “these people hate us” is completely off base. Fact is Chinese just don’t think too much about people from different backgrounds – which is a problem to be sure – but not racism.

Most of them use an umbrella everyday to “shield” themselves from the sun.

Chinese generally believe fair skin on a women is one important marker of beauty.
This predates European exploration and conquest. It is important to know that while Chinese like fair skin, it does not mean they prefer the skin of Western white women. Chinese skin tends to be smoother, less hairy and more age resistant than Caucasian skin (although Chinese do scar worse than Caucasians). Chinese women wanting to keep themselves fair is not a racist statement about black people, it is completely absurd to suggest this – as absurd as womeone like myself saying that because I do not meet, say, the Masai ideal of masculinity or indeed the Western one, I am the victim of racial discrimination (although in the latter case the constant stream of media vilification of the Asian man could be considered a form of racism).

July 21, 2008 @ 2:51 pm | Comment

Status symbol is reversed, now dark skin is very fashionable and beloved by status conscious persons. Too white skin is considered now ugly!

Given some time, we may even see that development in the future in Asia.

I certainly hope not. Tanning ages the skin and can lead to melanoma (although some sunlight is important – it is the major source of Vitamin D. I’d agree that some Asian women overdo the thing and become paranoid – but then anything related to feminine beauty has the potential to lead to extreme behaviour – bound feet and Burma’s long necked tribe spring to mind.

July 21, 2008 @ 3:20 pm | Comment

Ra: if one has a dating/sexual predilection for blondes does that make one racist against Chinese, Africans, Eskimos, and Australian aborigines? Of course not.
The fact is race is an integral part of the decision making process, conscious or unconscious, when one considers a potential life partner. That is why it is still perfectly acceptable throughout the Western world to list “preferred ethnicity” when looking for a date.

That one race may consider some physical characteristic beautiful, while same characteristic may not be common or even exist in another race, is not reason in itself to scream racism.

Ra: you have your physical preferences in a women, I have mine. Some of these physical preferences may exclude certain races. But that does not make you or me a racist.

July 21, 2008 @ 3:33 pm | Comment

@Wayne
“I certainly hope not. Tanning ages the skin and can lead to melanoma ”
Yes, melanoma cases have increased as a result of tanning craziness.

“sunlight is important – it is the major source of Vitamin D”
Certainly. In some northen european cities kids receive as supplement of vitamin D to compensate lack of sun.

But too much of a good thing can also be bad for ones’s health 😉

July 21, 2008 @ 4:30 pm | Comment

This from the Financial Times’ Beijing correspondent Mure Dickie:
http://www.ftchinese.com/sc/story_english.jsp?id=001020703

July 21, 2008 @ 5:59 pm | Comment

Who gives a damn if they shut down every night spot and bar in the city. These sinks of western iniquity that unfortunately abound throughout East Asia, are for the enjoyment of spoilt but whiny Western expats and loser white men who could only ever score with their right hand at home but fancy their chances of getting a real live bucking one in East Asia. These Asian chicks of course are really just groupies – not of any rock group or sports team – but of whites. Of course you also get your few filthy rich Chinese wannabes who think having an apparently profound conversation with a white man -any white man that is – over a beer – in front of friends, results in some significant elevation of social status – which is about up to same white man’s crotch level. I’ve seen the same thing over and over and over again throughout East Asia.

Anyone here who says this is untrue is being wilfully blind.

Close all the bars and nightclubs and most people at the games won’t give a stuff. Going to bars is a Western thing. Keep the Peking Duck restaurants open and provide an endless supply of fresh jiaozi (and some of those lamb kebabs I once had in Beijing). This will more than keep most of the real people happy.

As for those whiny Westerners (and their few Chinese lapdogs) and their idea of fun -who cares?

July 21, 2008 @ 7:20 pm | Comment

@Wayne

Tsk tsk tsk..Where is your hospitality?

July 21, 2008 @ 8:12 pm | Comment

@Wayne

I’ll have a crack at this. One does not get to decide what term(s) others’ take issue with.One can’t say, for example, that the equivalent of ‘nigger’ in a language is acceptable due to ignorance. Besides, the very use is at best ignorance and worst xenophobic and racialist.

Other than that, got no problem with what you’re saying.

“I’ve seen the same thing over and over and over again throughout East Asia.”

Been to a few bars have we?

July 21, 2008 @ 8:22 pm | Comment

Rich: ‘heigui’ in chinese is not in any sense at all the equivalent of ‘nigger.’ ‘Nigger’ of course has extremely negative connotations and associations of slavery, racial degredation, loss of language, culture pride, jim crow ,lynching and segregation. When a Westerner uses such a term, it is highly unlikely that he or she is unaware of these associations, therefore its usage is in most circumstances extremely racist (and yes I know blacks frequently use the term but you get my drift).

Contrariwise, the term ‘gui’ while certainly not complimentary, really is just a term for any non-Chinese person, regardless of that persons actual race -yellow, white, brown, black or whatever.

‘Hak gwei’ is no more derogatory than ‘baak gwei’ which is frequentnely applied to white people. Both terms in the minds of the average Chinese user bear no real undertones of racial superiority or animus. It could perhaps convey a sense of ‘us’ and ‘them’ at worst.

In fact there is not and cannot be a term in the Chinese language the equivalent of ‘nigger’ – simply because the meaning of ‘nigger’ is so loaded by historical events that do not have any equivalent in Chinese-black relations.

However, having said that the terms ‘hak gwei’ or ‘bak gwei’, could not in any sense be described as polite and any black person or white person, would to my mind, be well justified in objecting to these terms. And polite, considerate Chinese people should refrain from their use (except when among themselves that is-haha).

I’ve been to an expatriate bar once in Singapore many years ago, and twice in Hong Kong. That was enough to be aware of scene described in previous post.
And you know exactly what I am talking about rich.

July 21, 2008 @ 9:36 pm | Comment

A chinese tutor once told me that Mongolians are “dirty”. “If you go to mongolia and go inside their yurts, not the tourist ones, but the ones they live in you will see they are dirty”

Wonder if Zhang Qingli’s comments regarding the Dalai Lama could be considered “racist”.

Noticed that Korea was left out of the recent discussion between China and Japan regarding dividing up Donghai.

Chinese language teacher snickered when I suggested South Korea was part of the recent G-8 plus three meetings.

Yep the US can learn a lot about how to be more of an egalitarian society from China, Korea, and Japan. Only I’m not sure which one of those three (China, Korea, or Japan) is the superior society for the US to use as a model for improving race relations in the US. Maybe someone can help me identify whether China, Korea, or Japan is the superior social model for improving race relations in the United States.

I was thinking maybe a trip to Japan to meet with the descendents of the ethnic koreans brought to Japan to work as slave laborers in the factories might be a good place to start.

Personally I have a bias towards mongolians, I love a mongolian princess, even if her yurt does get a little dirty from all that time on the steppe.

July 22, 2008 @ 1:10 am | Comment

James,

A couple of quick points…

1) the original post not only expressed both a wish and an assumption that the rumor was just that…a wild hysterical rumor, it concluded by agreeing with the Shanghaiist that even Beijing Olympic officials in their wildest, most baijiu-soaked moments, wouldn’t be that stupid. In Mythbuster fashion, I and a few other people set about trying to verify the rumor and came up empty, which was duly noted the next day.

2) Regarding the larger issue, countering the argument that “Chinese people cannot be racist/discriminatory” is NOT the same thing as arguing “All Chinese people are racist.” I hope you can see the distinction there because it is an important one.

July 22, 2008 @ 7:32 am | Comment

@Wayne “Chinese may mistakenly believe you to be a “fei zhou ren” – how is that racist?”

I never said calling me Fei Zhou Ren was racist, the use of that term when applied to me only illustrates their ignorance and lack of education of the African Diaspora, it is indicative of their inability to discern a brother from Brazil from a brother from England from a brother from the U.S. thus we are all lumped into 1 category, Fei Zhou Ren, which wouldn’t be so bad if they didn’t have so much contempt for Africans. As this post is essentially about skin tone and discrimination based upon it at the Beijing Olympics, I feel I must share my experiences to add some clarity to a great discussion here. When Chinese people are insulting each other they call them “Hei Wer” and when they really want to insult someone they call them “Fei Zhou Hei Wer” which is the “blackest” of the “black” and the epitome of uncleanliness (as you know they believe our skin is brown because we don’t bathe, or did you know?). Maybe thats’ not racist, just hatred, you decide.

@Wayne “As for “Hei ren” that is a perfectly legitmate term – just as “bai ren” means white person”

Unless of course you are walking down the street with a so-called “bai ren” and you hear Chinese people call out and refer to them as “lao wai or or wei guo ren” and then call you “hei ren, hei ren!!!” as opposed to a more respectable title such lao wai or wei guo ren, apparently a title reserved for those with lighter skin tones, again you decide.

@Wayne “”hei gui” is pejorative, but in Hong Kong the terms “gwai lo” (guilao) or “gwai tau”, or “bak gwai” are all commonly used to refer to white people. Gweilao has become so common in usage that it has lost its ability to offend. So I doubt that a person who refers to you as “hei gui,” has any real intent to ridicule you, still less would it represent in any way his views(if indeed he has any) on race at all.”

What kool-aid are you drinking man??? “Hei Gui” means Black Ghost or Black Spirit, it is the one term when there is absolutely no mistake they are trying insult you, it is the one term they use to denigrate and degrade me. I usually only hear it from cars speeding by, because they know that word is a fighting word. On the occassions where I have heard it while in close proximity, they usually run away. So your doubts, in fact your whole “paradigm” of thought on Chinese in regards to race relations needs an overhaul buddy, I’m just educating you, that’s all. I will acknowledge their historic prediliction for fair skin, point taken. I misspoke when in the former post I said “they hate us”, I meant to say given their behavior, actions, disdain for darker complexions, love of fair comlected individuals, utter dislike for the African continents population, It “feels” like they hate us….better now?

July 22, 2008 @ 9:47 am | Comment

@Ra

Here is a REAL brother’s take:

http://silkrc.com/chinadialogs/2007/11/16/black-like-me-in-china/

July 22, 2008 @ 10:13 am | Comment

the use of that term when applied to me only illustrates their ignorance and lack of education of the African Diaspora, it is indicative of their inability to discern a brother from Brazil from a brother from England from a brother from the U.S.

For heavens sake, a Chinese from Sichuan probably can’t tell the difference between a Brazilian black and UK black and that is enough to label him ignorant? What are you smoking?

Unless of course you are walking down the street with a so-called “bai ren” and you hear Chinese people call out and refer to them as “lao wai or or wei guo ren” and then call you “hei ren, hei ren!!! Obviously because of your comparative rarity compared with the white. Most have probably never seen a black man before. Before the white man became so ubiquitous in the region they were openly called “big noses.” Now Chinese have become so use to seeing whites they do not regard their features as nearly so strange anymore.

Still it is extremely rude, but I never said Chinese weren’t rude and inconsiderate. Sadly many of the manners and ordinary decencies people in other parts of the world take for granted are very seriously lacking in many parts of China. Don’t know why that is but it is a fact.

So blacks may on occassion face unacceptable levels of rudeness from Chinese – but I’ve also seen many blacks in Hong Kong getting along just fine at yum cha with Chinese. And among ourselves, I have never heard anyone talking of hating blacks. Sure the stereotype is Africa is backward, but then most people outside Africa have this stereotype – including many American blacks themselves.

As for “hei gui” I suggest you stop trying to play little semantic games across too vastly different languages. Is it any ruder than white ghosts or jap ghosts?

The rest of your post describing the Chinese version of typical redneck good ol boy behaviour simply does not ring true. Chinese hardly ever go out of their way to deliberately provoke a hostile reaction in the way you have described.
This together with your deliberate overuse of ‘brother’ has led me to believe with close to 100percent certainty that you are a subversive, shit-stirring white Anglo hell-bent on sowing discord – in exactly the same vein as the guy who wrote the article which triggered this thread.

July 22, 2008 @ 11:29 am | Comment

@Wayne @AC appreciate you guys earning your 50 cents, I applaud you for your tenacity as you contort my words so as you can genuflect and serve as apologist extraordinaire for these racists….as if I have nothing else to do with my life but come and this board and lie to….. YOU. My comments I hope have at least given some of the readers here an authentic experience based on truth and not rumor. Adieu…..and love the site guys, I read it everyday, just never felt like writing before now.

July 22, 2008 @ 1:52 pm | Comment

@Ra
Thanks for sharing your experience Ra. It has been interesting.

July 22, 2008 @ 2:49 pm | Comment

Off topic warning:

I just saw this piece in the guardian about the smog in beijing

http://tinyurl.com/6kzk64

all standard stuff but then i saw something truly remarkable. at the end of the piece there was footage of beijing people queueing in an orderly fashion to get on a bus. can it be true!?!? or was it just for the cameras? can anyone in beijing verify this?

Cheers

July 22, 2008 @ 3:30 pm | Comment

“‘Hak gwei’ is no more derogatory than ‘baak gwei’ which is frequentnely applied to white people. Both terms in the minds of the average Chinese user bear no real undertones of racial superiority or animus. It could perhaps convey a sense of ‘us’ and ‘them’ at worst.”

sorry – i just saw that and had to laugh. i hope wayne enjoys living in his fantasy world

July 22, 2008 @ 3:34 pm | Comment

sorry – i just saw that and had to laugh. i hope wayne enjoys living in his fantasy world

Si: the fact is the use of gweilao to describe the white man is the norm among Cantonese speakers all over the world. Also common are “gwaitau’ and “baak gwai.” Who bothers to to use the term “saiyan?” Hardly anyone I know. I use the term gweilao (or just gwei).

People will casually say “ngoh bosi hai gwai lao lai ge” (my boss ia white) or some skanky Lan Kwai fong chinese ho might say “nghoh ge naam pang you hai gwai jai” (my boyfiend is white boy). No hostility or contempt implied at all.

If Si is right, Hong Kong for one would be a seething hotbed of frothing anti-white anti-Western racdicalism – which it (perhaps unfortunately) is decidedly not.

Whites generally are not offended by gweilao – not because they are particularly tolerant, but simply because the word does not connote oppression, enslavement and disenfranchisement of white people.

It is not the literal meaning of the term itself which is of overriding significance. It is the context and historical associations which are important.

A Chinese describing a white person as “baak gwai,” is likely far less likely to be a racist than a white person who calls black people “nigger” – despite the fact that “baak gwai” means “white ghost (or devil)” while nigger simply derives from the Spanish word for the color black.

But poor poor Si, all this is simply way beyond your limitations to perceive.

July 22, 2008 @ 5:14 pm | Comment

May I call Chinese colleagues “slanted eyed ghost/devil”?

No offense meant of course 😉

Regards from a white ghost/devil

July 22, 2008 @ 5:53 pm | Comment

indeed ecodelta. it is not the person speaking who decides whether something is insulting, it is the person receiving. I could walk up to a black person and say “Whassup nigger”, but whether they get offended or not is up to them. wayne misses this point. i don’t care if someone does not mean to insult me when they call me a white ghost, or ugly or fat or stupid or lazy or asks how many gfs i have (because all foreigners sleep around, right?) . i find it offensive and demeaning. by labelling people you strip them of their humanity. if you want to avoid pissing people off try using neutral terms. it is this complete absence of the ability to see things from another’s point of view that is the problem.

July 22, 2008 @ 6:06 pm | Comment

Ecodelta: even that peanut sized brain of yours should be able to tell you the answer to that.

In regards to gweilo, the Canadian Broadcast Standards Council “The Council finds that the expression has also lost most of its religious meaning, so that “foreign devil” no longer carries the theological significance it once did. Based on its research, the Council understands that the expression has gone from being considered offensive to, at worst, merely “impolite”

Si: it is not the person speaking who decides whether something is insulting, it is the person receiving. I could walk up to a black person and say “Whassup nigger”, but whether they get offended or not is up to them. wayne misses this point.

you don’t even know where the point is Mr Gweilo. You implied that Chinese are impelled mainly by racist motives when using “baak gwei” or “hak gwei”. I have shown this to be untrue. This is mainly a discussion concerning the purported racism of the Chinese – not about etiquette. Now you obfuscate and start bringing in ‘ugly’ ‘stupid’ ‘fat’ ….the issue is it racism or not racism – get it?

i find it offensive and demeaning. by labelling people you strip them of their humanity yeah yeah yeah go on and spout your shopworn platitudes – all a literal minded simpleton like you is capable of. Get it you 白皮猪

July 22, 2008 @ 7:51 pm | Comment

@wayne
“even that peanut sized brain of yours should be able to tell you the answer to that.”

My , my, my…. Did I touch a sensible nerve?

Peanut sized but a fully working brain nonetheless. 😛

July 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

okay wayne, enough. bye bye.

July 22, 2008 @ 7:58 pm | Comment

I have seen this course of action before when arguing with some chinese persons over controversial issues.

First deny any problematic issue using Ad Hominen.

Then when it does not work Tu Quoque.

And in some instances self induced state of denial.

And if they find themselves loosing the argument, they recourse to blatant insult. Maybe to scare the dialectical opponent?

I have seen this so often that I’am starting to think that it is a standard procedure. Maybe even part of school curricula

July 22, 2008 @ 8:45 pm | Comment

May I call Chinese colleagues “slanted eyed ghost/devil”?

In return the answer is that you’d be a long-nose barbarian. Regardless, the main issue in racism is the power. Honkey, cracker, whitebread, are 100,000,000x less offensive than nigger. Chinaman is also 10,000,000x less offensive than nigger.

If you are so offended by gweilao then you are incredibly thin-skinned. Most whites don’t really understand real racism except those in Zimbabwe and South Africa where it’s absolutely virulent.

As for relations between Chinese and blacks, the main rule is that China owes black people and Africans absolutely nothing. Zero, zilch, shit-at-all, nada. So you should just be glad that you are treated better in China than Chinese/Koreans/Mexicans are treated in America or wherever else and just roll with “punches” (in this case occasional neglible, 100% non-threatening behavior) or whatever.

Or grow some thicker skin.

July 23, 2008 @ 3:37 pm | Comment

that is, better than they’re treated in America by blacks.

July 23, 2008 @ 3:38 pm | Comment

holy shit, late night spelling

*occasional, negligible

sorry

July 23, 2008 @ 3:39 pm | Comment

I mean it has no basis here, there is no history of slavery like we had back at home so I am both astonished and appalled by their behavior.

It’s probably all the Chinese immigrants who witness disparities in crime rates based on race and tell people in China about it.

he knows more about racism there and if it’s “a big deal” or not.

No he doesn’t. He just has a perpetual victim complex like most posters here. He could live in China for 2,000 years and like you he still would not know shit about it. If you spend all your life living a selfish, evil Western lifestyle all you’re going to meet is shitty people.

July 23, 2008 @ 3:51 pm | Comment

Ferin, you leave me no choice. You are toxic and deranged. And banned as well. This time for a long time. Now go to the corner and put on your dunce cap.

July 23, 2008 @ 4:58 pm | Comment

It really does not matter if THIS PARTICUlAR story is true…

Black people as a WHOLE people need to separte themselves…

See what it has gained China… Wealth and World admiration…

FUCK UM! and all athletes should boycott the Olympics… I would not go to someones home knowing that they had no respect for me and my people.

July 24, 2008 @ 4:59 am | Comment

All the Black U.S. Athletes that is… should boycott the China Olympics…

Blacks have been dealing with this nonsense farrrrr to long… Didn’t this same thing pretty much occur with Hitler and the German Olympics…

When is enough; enough and Africans as a WORLD people get!

July 24, 2008 @ 5:01 am | Comment

[…] Granite Studio, via Peking Duck: “YJ checked out the rumor with some people “in the know,” looks like the SCMP pulled this at random off of some BBS. Rumor: BUSTED.” […]

July 24, 2008 @ 9:26 am | Pingback

If you doubt the possibility of the Chinese government asking bartenders not to serve blacks in China then i’d say you really need to get to know more about China.China is the most RACIST country you can ever come across.I still greatly admire the French president for deciding to boycott part of the games.I wish every other president could actually boycott the games completely.China is a shame when it comes to Human Rights and as such they don’t deserve to host the Olympic games.Whether ya white or black remain certain that you’ll be treated as a thing in China not a person.It might not be abvious at the begining but as time goes by you’ll get to know.Think twice if ya considering heading to China and if ya black tear your ticket and stay where u are cuz Chinese are just too stupid to bear it living with smart guys like u around them

July 30, 2008 @ 2:44 pm | Comment

I have seen this thread, and ones just like it for while and i DO agree that the chinese are about the most racist beings on this earth![my GF is mainland chinese!] And this is saying alot, seeing the caucasians and those spanish influenced old colonies of mexico and south america..and its grand northern neighbor, the good old US of A! And they have had many centuries to do in too! Their racists beliefs, are as old as china itself….their mentality, is quite applauling,with the same ideas i have seen..coming from circa 1950’s klu klux klan and jim crow era thinking “giants”.;-) Some [very few!]are coming around and some even tan[but is rare] just as in thailand[another virluent racist chinese haven!]I wish i had more positive postings[maybe in about 50-60 years!], but when books and publications like “Lonelyplanet” and “Fodors” write about this too…watch out! Well, two[or more!] can play this game too! so i have learned some manderin and Pinyin myself, with quite disasterous results, to those that cross my path..hehe. It seems that, where ever they go it seems that supreme ignorance and the superior “Han” mentalities follow. The chinese are such a “commerence” people, as they are always trying to to make business and such, that just now look to africa and now that africa is seeing them for what they are…. They cannot hide who and what they really are…and it does not bode well to be chinese there i think… and saving “face”, and “damage control”, will do them little to no good in these times of the internet age. Adi Amin Dada, had it right to take pride in the african people of uganda, and kicked the racist and bigoted asian and indians out. For too long, the african and blacks spread out have suffered too much hatred, discriminations, and somtimes to violent ends…[mainly US and Brtish, and spanish and most especially the Arabs!]No matter what country they live in..and the chinese “society” is truly despicable! Too bad, that the black people/afro americans/africans do not have this racial pride and recognize, and call the chinese wholly on this behaviors, and at least confront their vast hatred of the black/dark/darker skinned races and oher ethnics. I think the olympics and also thanks to the americans, and other “expats there[caucasians] you will see all come to light sooner, as the chinese have really opened a can of worms here…

July 31, 2008 @ 12:13 pm | Comment

[…] Post) and others in response to my scorpions-on-a-stick media monitoring project, and by The Peking Duck, Huffington Post, and the Time blog in response to my posts on the South China Morning Post story […]

August 25, 2008 @ 8:06 pm | Pingback