Raj
Little needs to be said about the horrible situation in Zimbabwe – the stolen election, the attacks on opposition supporters, holding food back from people unless they voted for the Zanu-PF. The question is, will China continue to protect Mugabe?
UN Security Council permanent members Russia and China that are friendly to Mugabe are expected to block sanctions against the Zimbabwean leader
There is an alternative view that Russia doesn’t care that much so will not use its veto – that just leaves China.
Why would China back Mugabe? The country is not energy rich, nor is it a strategic base for Chinese military forces. So might China try to protect him because it sympathises with his suppression of opposition, or because it may want to use him as a way of deflecting international attention away from its own problems? I don’t know, but it would be foolish to help him out.
With all the criticism of China in just the last year, let alone the years before that, this would be a good time to show the world that it does care about atrocities outside its own borders, that China could be a positive world leader rather than a “I’m alright, Jack” country who could never be relied upon when the chips are down.
China would have a lot to gain and nothing to lose, save the belief that one can do whatever one pleases within one’s borders. Sadly that selfish attitude might be what motivates the CCP to oppose sanctions. If China decides to block sanctions, given all that has happened/is stil happening in Zimbabwe, it would cause even more trouble for the Beijing Olympics. I would like to be pleasantly surprised, but that would only be if China votes positively for sanctions – insisting they be watered down (though the proposals are hardly punitive as they are), not voting or not vetoing would be a case of trying to have one’s cake and eat it.
For those who may be unconvinced by recent media reports of “Uncle Bob”‘s betrayal of his own people, take a look at this video.
Shepherd Yuda, 36, fled the country this week with his wife and children. He said that he hoped the film, which was made for the Guardian, would help draw further attention to the violence and corruption in Zimbabwe. Much of the footage was shot inside the country’s notorious jail system. Yuda, who has worked in the prison service for 13 years, was motivated by the intensifying violence directed towards the opposition Movement for Democratic Change (MDC) and the murder, two months ago, of his uncle, a MDC activist…..
“I had never seen that kind of violence before,” said Yuda, of the run-up to the election. “How can a government that claimed to be democratically elected kill its people, murder its people, torture its people?”
The film, made for Guardian Films, shows how Yuda and his colleagues at Harare central jail had to fill in their ballots in front of Zanu-PF activists. Yuda also obtained footage of Zanu-PF rallies where voters were told they should pretend to be illiterate so that an official could fill in their ballot for them on behalf of Mugabe.
1
By Coldblooded3
Mugabe has been a dictator, and a bad person, for what, 25 years? and for 20 years he remained a west favorite, even honored with the knighthood by the Queen, and suddenly he’s evil now? Give me a break. The only reason Great Britain wants to hang him now is because of his land reform which took back the lands from white settlers. It has nothing to do with the violence, it has nothing to do with the democracy. For God’s sake how many elections has he won? 5 ? 6? you screaming like this is the 1st dirty one? where were the west for last 5? oh yeah busy with crowning him! If the West wants China’s help to punish him, say the true reason, say it out loud, dont make up b.s like this.
July 6, 2008 @ 1:47 am | Comment
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By R H Stracey
I agree with “Coldblooded2” but must point out that the stealing of farms from the white farmers was simply a racist act. Most of the farmers were not settlers but second, third and fourth generation Zimbabweans and in many cases bought their farms after the country became Zimbabwe some even using government loans! It was well known that even the first election in Zimbabwe was not free and fair, I know, I was a returning officer there but Thatcher was so keen to get rid of the “Rhodesian problem” that she was prepared to turn a blind eye to anything. China must start to act responsibly if she is to be considered a player on the international stage.
July 6, 2008 @ 2:59 am | Comment
3
By Raj
The only reason Great Britain wants to hang him now is because of his land reform which took back the lands from white settlers
It wasn’t reform, he took it and gave most of it to his cronies. Those who got the rest didn’t know what to do with it. Would you know how to farm if someone plopped you down in the middle of some fields and said “get cracking!”?
The land grab made people notice what was happening in Zimbabwe, but the main reason criticism stepped up after then was that the economy was ravaged and everyone started suffering. If all that had happened was that land was redistributed it would have fallen off the radar after a while.
For God’s sake how many elections has he won? 5 ? 6? you screaming like this is the 1st dirty one?
Absolute drivel. Plenty of people, both British and not, have complained about past elections. But Mugabe had some level of support then so he may well have won at least some of them. This time, however, it was absolutely clear that he was rigging everything. When you add that to the starvation and suffering going on then really it couldn’t carry on.
Also in the past African governments kept saying “don’t worry, we’ll sort this out – just give us more time.” They’ve had long enough and have nothing to show for it.
As Stracey says, in the past politicians didn’t want to worry about Zimbabwe. It was an ex-colony and thus the last thing people wanted to deal with. It’s a sad fact but it has taken so many atrocities and crimes to get to a point where the international community might do something.
July 6, 2008 @ 3:35 am | Comment
4
By A Chinese
Did anyone ask if sanction is good for the people in the first place?
Cube and North Korea has been under sanction for many years, any postive change?
Let the people in the country pay for the price of one dictator is hardly an impressive idea.
China might benefit from not blocking the vote, but I do not think people in Zimbabwe is going to benefit. In fact, if you stop Mugabe from buying abroad, he would probably raid at home to get what he wants.
And, I also support the non-interference principal. The reason is not because it is good for China, but because how can we be so sure that we know what’s best for other country? It’s easy to say that we intend it for good, but in reality things always go differently.
If we leave morality aside, and talk about national interest, there is probably little incentive for China to block the vote.But my guess is, to China, this is a matter of princial and morality rather than national interest.
Is it morality acceptable to use sanction against a regime you do not agree with, risking the people inside the country to pay for the price and make things so confrontional? Is there a better way? What if some country took advantage of interfence to achieve its own ambition？Like what American did in Iraq.
The game of sanction is hardly new in international politics, but it has never been clean. I really doubt if this one could turn out to be better.
July 6, 2008 @ 4:59 am | Comment
5
By Raj
Cube and North Korea has been under sanction for many years, any postive change?
Arguably yes for North Korea. It isn’t starting to play ball over its nuclear weapons out of the goodness of its own heart – it’s because finally China and its neighbours got tough with it.
Cuba is a different matter, in part because sanctions are not UN-led and thus only apply to a limited number of countries.
In fact, if you stop Mugabe from buying abroad, he would probably raid at home to get what he wants.
Zimbabwe doesn’t manufacture the luxuries he wants. He wants to be an international big-shot. Take that away from him and he has nothing.
but because how can we be so sure that we know what’s best for other country
Are you trying to suggest that hyper-inflation, rapings, murders and rigging elections is in Zimbabwe’s interest?
Is it morality acceptable to use sanction against a regime you do not agree with
It isn’t because people don’t like him, it’s because he’s a cruel leader who stole an election, has been deliberately starving people and has been generally suppressing the Zimbabwean population.
risking the people inside the country to pay for the price and make things so confrontional?
The situation could not be much worse. If the oppposition MDC are begging for international action that shows how bads things are already. What is Mugabe going to do – start executing people and demand sanctions be lifted or he will execute 1,000 people a week?!
July 6, 2008 @ 5:12 am | Comment
6
By steve
“this would be a good time to show the world that it does care about atrocities outside its own borders, ”
A false concept employed by western commentators like Raj is that the half billion people in US and western Europe is “the world”. This view is obnoxiously self-centered. Lots of time the real world is against Raj’s “the world”.
South Africa, the leader in Africa continent, has chosen to stay with Mugabe. During South African’s struggle against apartheit and westen country, Mugabe has provided the lifeline for ANC, when western county has supplied weapons to apartheid government. It is a bad idea for China to vote on sanctions on Sudan until South Africa took the lead.
July 6, 2008 @ 8:27 am | Comment
7
By stuart
I’ve been on China’s case for sometime about its role in Zimbabwe’s ongoing nightmare .
Check out the links about the ‘ship of shame’
Anyone looking to China for a show of moral leadership is going to be disappointed.
July 6, 2008 @ 10:24 am | Comment
8
By Ari
What hypocrisy! Liberals, bleeding hearts, and useful idiots are always sticking their noses in other countries’ business. However, they are very selective about where they stick their noses.
Countries like China, Zimbabwe, and Myanmar seem to attract a lot of Western noses.
Zimbabwe is not the worst or only place being ruled by a “dictator.” Most of Africa as well as many places in Asia are ruled by quasi-“dictators.”
It is unnecessary for the US and England to get involve in Zimbabwe. If the Zimbabwean people are too stupid, too frightened, or too lazy to fight against the “dictator” Mugabe, then why should the West get involved? If the Zimbabwean people could fight against the racist Rhodesian government, at some point, they can fight against their own “dictator.”
It is not the world’s fault that the Zimbabwean people have a weak, stupid leader like Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change. Eventually, the Zimbabwean people will produce leaders who will find a solution to the chaos in their country. If not, so be it. Freedom cannot be exported.
Western countries should mind their own business and solve the global economic problems they create for rest of the developing world.
July 6, 2008 @ 11:14 am | Comment
9
By Coldblooded3
To Stuart,
No, China did not ask anybody to look to us for moral leadership. we are still a very poor country. On the other hand, US is the mighty #1 and the one who constantly reminds the world they are the beacon of the moral high ground. And guess what, we are not dissapointed, we are digusted.
July 6, 2008 @ 12:04 pm | Comment
10
By Coldblooded3
To Raj,
spining wont get you out of that hole, just explain to me how the hell did your queen honor Sir. Mugabe the knighthood not so long ago.
July 6, 2008 @ 12:10 pm | Comment
11
By stuart
“China did not ask anybody to look to us for moral leadership”
China doesn’t get to grant permission to anybody for such a basic right.
You fall into the trap of deflecting justified criticism of China by pointing the finger at others.
“Western countries should mind their own business”
And allow China to support the world’s dictators militarily? Is that China’s idea of ‘not interfering’? Lovely people, your leaders.
July 6, 2008 @ 2:04 pm | Comment
12
By Raj
steve
Lots of time the real world is against Raj’s “the world”
Hmm, maybe in your “Bizaro world”. If you’re right, let’s see whether a majority of countries on the UNSC vote against sanctions or for it.
South Africa, the leader in Africa continent, has chosen to stay with Mugabe
That’s not the whole truth. Just one politician, Mbeki, has been trying to keep Mugabe in power because he has banked so much on him staying on. If the call changes for him to leave then Mbeki’s role will be have been exposed as the incompetant mess that it has been.
Furthermore Mbeki’s likely successor, Zuma, has taken the opposite view. The ANC has criticised Mugabe and even the unions stopped weapons being unloaded from a Chinese ship because of the violence in the run-up to the election. At best opinion in South Africa is split – at worst Mbeki is in a minority.
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Ari
If the Zimbabwean people are too stupid, too frightened, or too lazy to fight against the “dictator” Mugabe, then why should the West get involved?
We don’t want the “West” to involved, we want the world to be involved. And it’s easy to say “you have to stand up” when you’re not in a similar position.
If the Zimbabwean people could fight against the racist Rhodesian government, at some point, they can fight against their own “dictator.”
A number of Zimbabweans have said it’s worse now. I believe someone on the video comments that even during Smith’s day you didn’t get gangs of government-sponsored thugs beating on your door and threatening to kill you for not voting for person X.
It is not the world’s fault that the Zimbabwean people have a weak, stupid leader like Morgan Tsvangirai, leader of the opposition Movement for Democratic Change
Then how come even with the dodgy first-round results he still had a big lead over Mugabe and probably would have won it if the count had been fair?
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Coldblooded
just explain to me how the hell did your queen honor Sir. Mugabe the knighthood not so long ago
Go ask whoever drew up that year’s honour’s list. I see you ignored everything I had to say – no answers to my questions I guess.
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stuart, yes China shouldn’t sell them weapons or offer them loans/aid if it wants to stay out of other countries’ affairs – that is interference.
July 6, 2008 @ 6:17 pm | Comment
13
By Coldblooded3
to Stuart,
“China doesn’t get to grant permission to anybody for such a basic right.”
yes you dont need permission, but you dont look to a country which has half billion ppl living under 3$ a day for moral leadership, unless you have other agendas in mind… what’s the American saying? I ‘ve got a family to feed, I’ve got to put food on the table.
“Western countries should mind their own business”
No that’s not what I m saying, I m saying Western countries should clean up their own sh/t first, set good examples, before point fingers at others. You can start with Saudi, Somalia and Ethiopia. Yes I’ve been to Saudi, they are the worst humanrights violator in the world, they chop off ppl’s hands in the mall. And do you know Somalia government actually shot at tens of thousands anti-American protestors taking on the streets and killed a dozen of them just 2 months ago? And Ethiopian troops in Somalia are killing civilians, slitting the throats of suspects and gang-raping women. You would never see those in the American MSM because those regimes are backed by uncle Sam. My logic is very simple, either you have a universal moral principle, apply to everybody in this world, including urself, or you have none, nada.
July 7, 2008 @ 1:01 am | Comment
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By Raj
I m saying Western countries should clean up their own sh/t first, set good examples, before point fingers at others
Arguably Zimbabwe is a mess caused in part by Britain, so it is a mess we should help to clear up.
As for the examples you cite, Saudi Arabia is a huge oil power that neither the US nor China would dare lodge sanctions against. On human rights it is bad, but it is not nearly as bad as Zimbabwe – you don’t have roaming gangs of government-backed rapists murdering people for contesting elections (which Saudi Arabia is starting to have). Somalia is a broken state that sanctions wouldn’t work against. As for Ethiopia, UN troops are doing that too – should we pull out of the UN or declare war on it?
I also note countries like Sweden and Germany that have no mess to clear up yet also back sanctions against Zimbabwe.
July 7, 2008 @ 2:37 am | Comment
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By Bing
Time for the West to stop messing up in Africa. African countries should throw out their quasi-democracy and try emulating what China has accomplished in the past 30 years in the Chinese way and with Chinese help.
July 8, 2008 @ 7:17 am | Comment
16
By mor
Bing just expressed very well what the CCP is really up to in Africa.
July 8, 2008 @ 12:18 pm | Comment
17
By A Chinese
@ Raj
Arguably yes for North Korea. It isn’t starting to play ball over its nuclear weapons out of the goodness of its own heart – it’s because finally China and its neighbours got tough with it.
Cuba is a different matter, in part because sanctions are not UN-led and thus only apply to a limited number of countries.
=>So, you agree with me that it is not the sanction that changed the North Korea, but dipolmacy?
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Zimbabwe doesn’t manufacture the luxuries he wants. He wants to be an international big-shot. Take that away from him and he has nothing.
=>What makes you think Mugabe cares more about his luxury goods than political power? Stop him from drinking XO is not going to get him on the table of negotiation with opposition leader. But if you stop shipping rice and crop, people is going to suffer.
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Are you trying to suggest that hyper-inflation, rapings, murders and rigging elections is in Zimbabwe’s interest?
=>Yes,hyper-inflation, rapings, murders and rigging elections is bad, but do you seriously believe sanction could make things better? I am not a economist, but I am sure if you use sanction against a country that has economic problem, you make things worse off
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It isn’t because people don’t like him, it’s because he’s a cruel leader who stole an election, has been deliberately starving people and has been generally suppressing the Zimbabwean population.
=>So,he is evil, then what? Cut his country off the world.Isolation only makes dictator stronger
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The situation could not be much worse. If the oppposition MDC are begging for international action that shows how bads things are already. What is Mugabe going to do – start executing people and demand sanctions be lifted or he will execute 1,000 people a week?!
=>He do not need to execute 1000 people to ask other countris to lift sanction, but I guess he will execute 2000 if these people want him out of the office. The common sense is that, to Mugabe, political power is a matter of survive;His economic well being is only secondary, not to mention his people.
I may consider defend this guy if his policy is good for China，even at his people’s expense.Becasue I do not want to pretend to be a internationalist
But what’s the point of use sanction in the first place? I doubt if the people will benefit from it. By making Mugabe more insecure, you effectively makes him more paranoid
July 9, 2008 @ 5:29 pm | Comment
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