Wonderful!

Now Israel can stop fighting with the kid gloves on.

January 27, 2006 @ 12:54 am | Comment

Well, look. A large percentage of the Palestinians who voted for Hamas did so because of the pervasive corruption and utter incompetence of Fatah. Certainly a lot of people who voted for Hamas did so because of religious convictions, but I would bet you right now that at least 40, maybe 50% of their votes came from dissatisfied Palestinians who don’t understand why their ruling party hasn’t been able to deliver to them the semblance of a functioning state. Hamas has been very effective at the grassroots level, at providing basic services and support that Fatah has been unable to deliver.

I’m saying this as one who believes that religious fundamentalism of any variety is incredibly damaging and dangerous. But I don’t see how anyone who’s been paying attention could be surprised by this outcome.

January 27, 2006 @ 1:02 am | Comment

Wonderful!

Now Israel can stop fighting with the kid gloves on.

Hahahahahaha. Fuckin’ Zionists and Islamic fundamentalists.

January 27, 2006 @ 1:42 am | Comment

Er, sorry. I was quoting Johnny there.

January 27, 2006 @ 1:45 am | Comment

ROFL. Since when has Israel been fighting with kid gloves on? This is a bit of Israeli blowback, since Israel funded Hamas in the ’70s and 80s as an alternative to Arafat. Once again, be careful what you wish for…..

Michael

January 27, 2006 @ 5:47 am | Comment

Oh boy. This is not good.

I don’t think that little tip you offered applies to George in this instance as much as it does the “Palestinian” people themselves.

Something tells me they can pretty much kiss their own “State” goodbye.

Hamas has already shown us that no matter how much Israel bows to their demands in an attempt to restore peace, it’s never enough.

Expect more of the same.

This is going to be Big Trouble in little israel.

….

January 27, 2006 @ 5:52 am | Comment

Michael, go easy on Johnny – he’s a young Republican.

January 27, 2006 @ 5:53 am | Comment

As Gordon said … “be careful what you wish for” is something that should be aimed at the Palestinian voters, not Bush. It’s not even a bad thing for US hopes to foster democracy in the middle-east, because there are pretty much only 2 possible futures ahead. Either a) Hamas moderates itself substantially in order to behave as a government (since it’s always easier to be an opposition party and criticise all the time, but much harder once the authority is in your hands), or b) Hamas tries to remain radical and brings disaster upon the Palestinian people, destroying itself in the process. Either way, you’d have to say that the process of democracy was a success. It either causes radicals to become responsible, or causes radicals to destroy themselves. Of course, it’s pretty bad for the Palestinian people if option b is followed … but I don’t quite see where the downside is from the Jewish or American point of view.

January 27, 2006 @ 6:44 am | Comment

I don’t disagree with you, FSN9. What I do take issue with is Bush hyping his “spread of democracy” as a universal panacea that will wipe out terrorism – a major justification for the invasion of Iraq. It simply isn’t true. When the people you are bringing democracy to are radicalized, angry and full of hatred, it can be an awfully messy thing. And it can be very bad for America, and not at all the way George made it sound.

January 27, 2006 @ 7:22 am | Comment

I think that You’re all missing the point here.

Isn’t now the perfect time to negotiate with Hamas? Why wait for them to give up their ‘armed struggle’. If you bring create an environment where they CAN ACHIEVE PEACE THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS, then they are far more likely to give up their guns and sit down at the negotiationg table. But don’t make it a pre condition for them unles it is also a pre condition for Isreal.

Have you people learned nothing from your own history? Meeting Hamas half way is the best way to get them to drop their extremist stance and to become moderates.

If you give them a chance to talk and they will be more likely to do so, but if you leave them no other outlet except violence, and they will certainly use violence.

As it is, they’ve held a ceasefire for a year, that’s got to be worth something.

January 27, 2006 @ 7:29 am | Comment

Hamas doesn’t exactly have a lovable track record. I agree, we should try to negotiate with them, but Bush is already sayoing we don’t negotiate with sworn enemies of Israel. And Israelis are getting ready for war.

January 27, 2006 @ 7:35 am | Comment

dont expect negotiating to work, Hamas wont change their policies over night.

The counrty has a long history of viloence,

what makes people think that a group that incourages suicide bombings to suddenly become a fully democric state that doesn’t incourage violence?..i dont know!

democracy doensn’t work in most middle east countries, their culture is still of that from thousands of years ago, their justice system, human rights…fighting in streets with guns beacuse another party won the elctions..that just sums it up!

who can trust a country that belives abother counrty should be “wiped of the map” then again only time can tell!

I dont hate the middle east,(might sound like it!) i fully respect them for who and what they are!

I had to winge about it.. 🙂

January 27, 2006 @ 8:23 am | Comment

“(since it’s always easier to be an opposition party and criticise all the time, but much harder once the authority is in your hands)”

Erm….um…cough….Kuomintang….hmm

January 27, 2006 @ 8:58 am | Comment

“democracy doensn’t work in most middle east countries, their culture is still of that from thousands of years ago”

Just a snide note. The Muslim faiths have not been around thousands of years but less than 1,500 😉

January 27, 2006 @ 9:00 am | Comment

I wouldn’t judge this election too fast. We’ll see how hamas runs the territory and their policies once they are in control.

January 27, 2006 @ 9:40 am | Comment

“If you bring create an environment where they CAN ACHIEVE PEACE THROUGH NEGOTIATIONS, then they are far more likely to give up their guns and sit down at the negotiationg table.

Which might actually be relevant if Hamas wanted peace. Unfortunately, by their every word and deed they have made it explicit that the only peace they want with Israel is the peace of the grave.

“There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors.”

***

“The Day of Judgment will not come about until Muslims fight the Jews and kill them. Then, the Jews will hide behind rocks and trees, and the rocks and trees will cry out: “O Muslim, there is a Jew hiding behind me, come and kill him.”‘

***

“Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it.”

***

“The Islamic Resistance Movement believes that the land of Palestine is an Islamic Waqf consecrated for future Moslem generations until Judgement Day. It, or any part of it, should not be squandered: it, or any part of it, should not be given up. ”

***

“After Palestine, the Zionists aspire to expand from the Nile to the Euphrates. When they will have digested the region they overtook, they will aspire to further expansion, and so on. Their plan is embodied in the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”, and their present conduct is the best proof of what we are saying.”

Britain and France sought to negotiate peace with Hitler. But peace was not what Herr Hitler wanted.

Still, there is one positive thing to come out of the Palestinian election:

“But now, splendidly, everything had become clear. The enemy at last was plain in view, huge and hateful, all disguise cast off.”

Evelyn Waugh, on the Molotov-Ribbentrop Pact

January 27, 2006 @ 9:54 am | Comment

i was 500 years off…wasn’t that far off 🙂

January 27, 2006 @ 10:06 am | Comment

Winston, are you retarded?

The quotes are irrelevant. I don’t need to remind you of Bill Gate’s early comments on the internet, or even the historical actions of the Christians via the Crusades or even Sharon’s change from a brutal to slightly less brutal leader.

What Hamas plans to do remains to be seen.

January 27, 2006 @ 10:45 am | Comment

Those aren’t “quotes”, dummy. Those are passages excerpted from the Hamas Charter, the founding and governing document of Hamas.

Jesus, even the Nazis didn’t have the stones to write “let’s kill the Jews” into their constitution.

Hamas does.

As for the assertion that we have no idea what Hamas intends to do . . . I guess that would be true, if you ignore everything Hamas has ever said about what it intends to do and everything Hamas has ever done in the past.

January 28, 2006 @ 7:57 am | Comment

Skystreaker:

You think that the fact that Hamas has pledged to kill the Jews and obliterate Israel is “irrelevant“?

Hmm:

Irrelevant (adjective): “Having no bearing on or connection with the subject at issue. Entirely unrelated to the matter being considered. Extraneous to the issue.

So, you think that the fact that the Hamas Charter explicitly calls for the killing of the Jews and the eradication of Israel is extraneous,has no bearing on, and is entirely unrelated to, the question of whether Hamas intends to kill Jews and eradicate Israel.

Irrelevant? A useless bit of information? Not even a factor to be considered? Can’t imagine why anyone woulod even bring it up?

And you called me “retarded”?

Sheesh.

January 28, 2006 @ 8:14 am | Comment

Please tone it down. If you cite a bunch of quotes, please give the source so there’s no confusion.

January 28, 2006 @ 8:30 am | Comment

Winston just unleashed a bizarre amount of toxic waste in my direction. I don’t know who he is or how he got here, but he won’t be around anymore. Shocking.

January 28, 2006 @ 9:19 am | Comment

What Does The Hamas Win Mean For Israel And The Palestinians?

January 28, 2006 @ 12:29 pm | Comment

OK some folks short memories.

An official internal Israeli commission set up to investigate the massacre of civilians at Sabra & Shatila found Ariel Sharon indirectly responsible and suggested he resign as defence minister. Lots of lefties in the world reckon he should’ve been charged with war crimes.

Around 20 years later Israelis elect him Prime Minister.

His hugely provocative and inflammatory visit to the al-Aqsa Mosque ahead of that election arguably sparked off an intifada.

Hardly surprising then that Hamas is elected?

January 28, 2006 @ 12:55 pm | Comment

Quite right, KLS.

January 28, 2006 @ 9:57 pm | Comment

Gordon, Right Wing News?? That’s as bad as I Hate China (linked by someone in the open thread).

January 28, 2006 @ 9:58 pm | Comment

Haha..Sorry Richard, I knew that would make you a little squeamish, but I think his points are very valid.

January 29, 2006 @ 7:52 am | Comment