If anyone’s a broken record, I’d say it’s the bungholes who keep committing crimes like this under the cover of a “harmonious society.”

July 19, 2006 @ 11:46 pm | Comment

My turn to be a broken record, and repeat one of my favourite lines from Monty Python:

“And in the Happy Kingdom, there were no grumblers or malcontents, because Wise King Otto had had them all put to death under the Happiness Act.”

July 20, 2006 @ 12:24 am | Comment

Ivan, I actually own that skit on a record, yes, a real LP. It actually begins with I believe Eric Idle screaming NOT THIS RECORD!!! NOT THIS RECORD!!! NOT THIS RECORD!!! (sound of needle pulled off the record)

Richard, you have been found guilty of being very depressed with malice aforethought, and so have been sentenced to be hanged by the neck until you cheer up.

July 20, 2006 @ 1:48 am | Comment

dave, the LP is titled “Monty Python’s Previous Record”, and I have it in storage somewhere back in my country. If my memory serves me correctly, the first track is the “Embarassment Test”

(Apologies to other readers for us two Python nerds trading trivia 🙂

July 20, 2006 @ 2:37 am | Comment

I know what kind of charges they are going to bring against Chen Guangcheng. It’s going to be: “preventing the State from upholding China’s great Legalist tradition”. Law enforcement, according to China’s great Legalist tradition, is important because it protects the State against the tyranny of the People. And in Chen’s case, it’s from the tyranny of a blind man. Long live China’s Legalist tradition!!

July 20, 2006 @ 3:53 am | Comment

Ivan, that reminds me of a Dr Who were he and his companion land on a planet where being sad is a capital offence!

July 20, 2006 @ 5:23 am | Comment

Just a quick point. These officials are cowards for treating this guy so badly. Imagine if he were a crime lord. They wouldn’t dare do anything for fear of a bomb being put under their car.

July 20, 2006 @ 5:40 am | Comment

What, again? Just after Hao Wu was released? *headdesks* Do I see a pattern here?

July 20, 2006 @ 7:53 am | Comment

I’m just wondering that why those dissents in China all supported by some foreign foundations outside the China? How did them hook up with each other? What’s under those foundations? I happed to know a graduate student from Beijing University got some money from an “unofficail” orgnization in US., because he published some anti-goverment articles. I doubt the purpose of those orgnizations. Of-course, we Chinese want to solve many problems such as corruption, unjustice, but we don’t trust the political based bias which aims to overthrow the Chinese goverment. Problems like corruption and injustice are reported in Chinese media very often. Why those heros think the only way to do it is to rely on foreigh media? As a Chinese, I appreatiate your care about China sincerenly. But I would suggest you learn more about the situation.

July 20, 2006 @ 1:04 pm | Comment

“summer lotus” is lying about that “graduate student”, for reasons which should be obvious to anyone with half a brain. And the rest of what he has written here is nonsense too, a mish-mash of logical fallacies and innuendo and lies.

Shall I deconstruct it? Or will someone else please do it? The task seems like a dreary chore.

July 20, 2006 @ 4:37 pm | Comment

Ivan, feel free – just don’t let “it” provoke you into being angry, demeaning towards Chinese, etc.

July 20, 2006 @ 5:14 pm | Comment

Summer Lotus not wrong and very smart to see through Western smokescreen. All Chinese can see Mr Chen want to destabilise Chinese government, must be CIA agent. If even blind peasant without law degree sue government, then nobody afraid of government and everybody do what they like. Chinese not respect their government, then chaos everywhere. Look at US government. Everybody say bad thing about US government, everybody sue, so US government weak and nobody obey. Even poor country laugh at them. We Chinese not want government like US.

July 20, 2006 @ 5:26 pm | Comment

I could not have written a satire of Chinese brainwashing like “winter jasmine” has written, even if I were high on a cocktail of caffeine and laughing-gas…..

July 20, 2006 @ 5:49 pm | Comment

“winter jasmine,” that is the worst parody of a Chinese person writing in English I’ve read in a long time. Let me check on your IP address for a clue as to your identity and location…

My, my. How interesting. Let’s just say Winter Jasmine is not in China but has an awfully indicative email address…

I’m not sure why you are pretending to be worse at English than you are, though.

July 20, 2006 @ 5:52 pm | Comment

China’s conditions are different from America’s conditions. China is still a third world country, has 1.3 billion population, and too many poor farmers. This means China has problems that America does not have, and those problems must need special solutions. Right now the Chinese government is trying very hard to resolve these problems and improve China, without cause any chaos or “revolutions”. This is not a easy job at all. Do you know what are those problems in China today? Let me identify:

1) The difference in income in villages and cities, so this requires improving villager’s methods of earning money and methods of managing their land, this is the biggest complex problem in China.

2) local government corruption. local government officers do not follow central regulations, and make small empires.

3) No good legal ways to make poor villagers not become victims to powerful local officers and businesses. This needs big reforms in legal systems.

The Chinese government is doing a very good job in helping to fix all the 3 problems. It is of course very slow, because China is a big country. But of course you can say “If we overthrow the Chinese government and start another revolution, these problems will be solved!”. But we assume we do not want to start revolution and overthrow, because that will cause 100 new problems and it will waste all the economic development in 15 years. Chinese people’s recent history is too painful, the last 15 years is the most peaceful and we finally had time to develop economic and become normal. This is too important, we cannot waste it.

July 20, 2006 @ 6:12 pm | Comment

Chen Guangcheng, the subject of this story and this thread, was not trying to “overthrow the government.”

And you wonder why some of us become outraged at you Communists and call you “Whores” when you write such dishonest crap as pigsun has written here?

July 20, 2006 @ 6:23 pm | Comment

I’m ignoring winter jasmine because I think he/she might be a troll.

However, summer lotus (has anyone noticed how alike these two names are?) makes some points which often come up.

we don’t trust the political based bias which aims to overthrow the Chinese goverment.

Political bias, as you call it, happens almost everywhere (look at Taiwan). It’s in China that people start screaming treason at the slightest hint of it. And then there’s the idea of patriotic dissent, which is not very common in China these days (partly because of the aforesaid screaming treason). Political. Bias. Will. Happen. Which way it leans depends on the people in question. What you mean, then, is that you would rather have the CCP bias than the western bias.

Problems like corruption and injustice are reported in Chinese media very often.

In my grandpa’s words, “They report ninety-nine out of a hundred cases.” However, the hundredth is usually a big one. Can you tell me about SARS and why we heard about it on CNN (we were visiting Hawaii then) two months before it was reported in CCTV? When they had known it since November of the year before that?

>iWhy those heros think the only way to do it is to rely on foreigh media?

See aforesaid comment. Sometimes CCTV just won’t listen. And do you think that, if the western media hadn’t reported this, we would know it? Besides which, where was it said that Mr Chen was “supported” by western media?

July 20, 2006 @ 6:24 pm | Comment

Summer Lotus and Winter Jasmine do not seem to be the same person, from their IP addresses.

Winter Jasmine, I believe, is a paid Chinese government agent living abroad, if the email address is any indication.

July 20, 2006 @ 6:33 pm | Comment

You said “What you mean, then, is that you would rather have the CCP bias than the western bias.”
—-

This is basically correct. I want to be very honest: If CCP kills my family, and if a Westerner kills my family, I will choose the CCP. Why? Simply because the CCP is Chinese, and Chinese is my root. So if there’s Chinese evil and Western evil, Chinese evil is more acceptable. This is why so many “democatic” anti-Chinese government groups in America are hated by Chinese: because Chinese view them as anti-China groups. So if those groups want to succeed, they must change this image, and must not use foreigners to help them.

This is also the reason why so many American troops in foreign land like Iraq is cursed by Iraqis. Many of you are very surprised: “We are helping them! We are kind to them! We took away Sadam, which was evil!”. You know what, you are right, you are kind, you are helping them, and you took away Sadame. BUT, you are NOT iraqi and you are in Iraq, and that is enough reason to hate you, and that reason is stronger than all the “kindess”. Americans have very short history, you do not have a deep understanding of “root” and “nation”.

July 20, 2006 @ 6:47 pm | Comment

You said “What you mean, then, is that you would rather have the CCP bias than the western bias.”
—-

This is basically correct. I want to be very honest: If CCP kills my family, and if a Westerner kills my family, I will choose the CCP. Why? Simply because the CCP is Chinese, and Chinese is my root. So if there’s Chinese evil and Western evil, Chinese evil is more acceptable. This is why so many “democatic” anti-Chinese government groups in America are hated by Chinese: because Chinese view them as anti-China groups. So if those groups want to succeed, they must change this image, and must not use foreigners to help them.

This is also the reason why so many American troops in foreign land like Iraq is cursed by Iraqis. Many of you are very surprised: “We are helping them! We are kind to them! We took away Sadam, which was evil!”. You know what, you are right, you are kind, you are helping them, and you took away Sadame. BUT, you are NOT iraqi and you are in Iraq, and that is enough reason to hate you, and that reason is stronger than all the “kindess”. Americans have very short history, you do not have a deep understanding of “root” and “nation”.

July 20, 2006 @ 6:50 pm | Comment

My understanding of “root” and “nation”, is that anyone who oppresses the people of his own nation is a traitor.

July 20, 2006 @ 6:50 pm | Comment

It’s a true! Foreign agents give the blind man a money! I don’t say that because I have an proof. I just say that because I’m a xenophobe. Thankfully, they smart enough to stop his evil plan!
Let me tell you crackers something: you don’t understand our “roots” of screwing other people over for power for thousands of years! Don’t be so ethnocentricalism! It’s the chinese way and it has given us very good GDP figures! This blind guy was trying to lower our GDP to less than 10% with his oh-so-crafty maneuvers and support from foreign agents, but the people (or at least the class in power) stood in unity and said “hey, we don’t care how much regular people are getting screwed over! We’re gonna lock you up because we are coldhearted bastards who spend all day focusing on how to screw others over to get ourselves ahead!”
You know, if the party kills someone in my family, I will thank them for saving us from this threat to stability and for keeping our GDP growth at the proper 10% level (we all know that China’s spectactular growth has been driven by the blood of young people from 17 years ago. We’re considering changing our name to the Chinese vampire party). If an American (or actually, any “Westerner,” because in my eyes the “West” is a unitary concept) kills a Chinese, I will cry and scream and go march and throw rocks and beat up Westerners when I see them. I might actually try to beat up a Japanese guy if I get a chance, but I might lose. Anyway, you ask why? Well, this blatant double standard of mine is not the result of a closed society and media, brainwashing, and utter stupidity. Nope, it’s because I have an understanding of nation (whatever that means). The people must sacrifice themselves for the nation, unless of course we are talking about myself or someone I know, in which case we should be more cautious. We’ve been around for 3000 years. Oh wait, I forgot, now it’s 5000 years. Fuck it, who cares, let’s go all the way: we’ve been around for 10 million years!
And only when a nation has been around for 10 million years is it truly mature enough to understand the threat of the Trojan Horse: a blind “barefoot” lawyer who simply tried to protect regular people’s rights.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:01 pm | Comment

I’m wondering why SUMMER LOTUS and WINTER JASMINE are so faceless daring to use the term of “china”? with what authorization can you two guys represent China or Chinese? PLEASE USE THE NAME OF “CCP” INSTEAD OF ‘CHINESE” WHEN YOU ARE DEBATING WITH OTHERS. the illegal goverment in China, doesn’t represent chinese at all.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:12 pm | Comment

jeffery 这个民主贩å­?å?ˆä¸Šç?­äº†ï¼Ÿä¸»å­?给你多少钱啊，你这么å?–命？ 干嘛呢， ç´¯ä¸?累啊， 早点洗洗ç?¡äº†å?§ï¼Œå¤©å¤©è¿™ä¹ˆåœ¨ç½‘上和洋人一起骂中国有æ„?æ€?å?—？ 实è¯?跟你说了å?§ï¼Œæˆ‘就喜欢独è£?，就讨厌你们这帮民主贩å­?。 我和中国å??亿农民兄弟一样，素质特别低，根本ä¸?懂什么民主人æ?ƒçš„扯淡鸡巴。共产党给我å?ƒç»™æˆ‘å–?，也没把我抓起æ?¥ï¼Œæˆ‘就跟了他了， 怎么了？我喜欢独è£?，你他妈的还能能把我怎么样了？ 有本事去造å??，å?šæ¯›æ³½ä¸œç¬¬äºŒï¼Œå…ˆæŠŠä¸œåŒ—三çœ?打下æ?¥ï¼Œåˆ°é‚£æ—¶å€™è¯´ä¸?定我投é? ä½ ã€‚

July 20, 2006 @ 8:21 pm | Comment

OtherLisa, well I can’t really blame you for your opinion of Winter Jasmine’s English. If I were better at parody he’d sound more like a young nationalist than some guy in a bad Kung Fu movie. What I was really wanting to parody was a certain way of thinking about politics and the world.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:21 pm | Comment

Must…resist…temptation….

…I’m trying so hard to stay on my best behaviour, so that I don’t resurrect one of my old personae (long in storage) of “Ivan the Foaming-At-The-Mouth-Chinese-Nationalist”….

(“You America, you always hegemony, why you always hegemony on the human right! China is poor! China can no afford blind barefoot lawyer until GDP rise more!”)

July 20, 2006 @ 8:21 pm | Comment

Ok, the Chinese input is broken. Let me say it in English:

Jeffery, you democracy seller is working again? How much do you earn from this? Are you not tired by cursing at China everyday? Let me tell you, I am very low-level just like most Chinese farmers, I do not understand stupid shit like democracy and human rights. The CCP gives me food and house, and never arrested me, so I will follow it. If you really are ambitious and care about China, why not find support in 1 billion Chinese farmers, and create a rebellion force in Liaoning or Chongqing and fight the CCP like guerellas. If you do that, maybe I will support you.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:24 pm | Comment

Ivan, I’ll take over.

Pigsun has a record of inciting racist comments both at TPD and the Duckpond. The argument put forward here in this thread is a perfect example of this kind of behaviour.

Richard?s original posting is about a case of political persecution directed against a blind human rights worker in China. It is not about overthrowing the Chinese government or vilifying Chinese people or Chinese culture. It is about voicing out against miscarriage of justice, regardless of where it happens. All regular readers of the Peking Duck will witness how Richard and others often raise objections against miscarriage of justice in other parts of the world. We are also strong critics of the US government?s policies. But no one is accusing us of trying to overthrow the US government.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:26 pm | Comment

Let’s make fun of another blind man–pigsun.

1) The difference in income in villages and cities, so this requires improving villager’s methods of earning money and methods of managing their land, this is the biggest complex problem in China.
——————————————————
what a totally joke pigsun made. when Mao hold his power in 60’s and 70’s, what policy he adopted on “improving villager’s living standard” is using the “scissor gap”(price gap between the agri products and industrial products. raise the price of industrial products and cut down the price of farm products) to exploit the farmers. this policy is still being used until Wen’s coming to power

2) local government corruption. local government officers do not follow central regulations, and make small empires.
——————————————————–
ya. local goverment. central govt is great and always good intentions, all evils are done by local govt, not central govt. what a black humor this guy is speaking! haha..i can’t keep thinking who appoints the “local govt”, who is in charge of the “local govt”? who is benefitting from the “local govt”? haha.. why you guys are not blaming the “CCP system” rather than the “local govt”?

3) No good legal ways to make poor villagers not become victims to powerful local officers and businesses. This needs big reforms in legal systems.
——————————————————–
Does china lack of “legal laws” or “legal systems”? NO! there are so many laws passed by the govt including the “anti-corruption law”,”antitrust law”… in china constitution, our laws are defining clearly that human rights, including the expression freedom, protest freedom, religious freedom..etc are under the protection of our GREAT constitution. one of my friend who engaged in law enforcement told me that most of chinese laws are for foreigners, not for chinese.（中国的法律是给外国人看的) haha.. what a great humor and big lie it is.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:34 pm | Comment

Pigsun is basically correct. I want to be even more honest than him: if the Hells Angels rapes my wife and the Black Power rapes my wife I’ll choose Hells Angels first. Why? Simply because they’re white like me and white culture is my root. Also, they have a chapter in my neighborhood and we all pay them to
stop gangs like Black Power coming in, taking our money and raping our daughters like they used to 70 years ago. When you have 6000 years of history like us white people you understand that sometimes the individual has to sacrifice herself for the group. This is why those idiots who go around saying Hells Angels are bad are hated by so many white people: Because we view them as anti-white groups and suspect that they’re paid agents of the Black Power. Actually we have no proof of that but that’s what we say to put them on the defensive so we can shout them down in a debate.
Also another thing we do is change the subject to talk about other countries with less history than us, because if somebody only has 200 years of history and you have 5000 years of history, obviously you have much more wisdom and refinement and basically ought to do everything better than them. This is why Americans never understand why so many people hate them: because they’re younger than us and don’t have much culture, but they’re rich and successful, so we feel stupid every time they open their mouth to criticise us.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:48 pm | Comment

2) local government corruption. local government officers do not follow central regulations, and make small empires.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
if you guys, your central govt fails to control the “local govt”, in other words,your central govt lacks of the managerial abilities ,why don’t take the responsibilities to resign? why is your central govt still sitting on the seat of power?

连地方政府都管不好，还管理什么国家？没有管治能力的人，凭什么还赖在权力宝座上？

July 20, 2006 @ 8:49 pm | Comment

I’ve always said that in order to get the central gov to exercise control over the local gov, someone would need to start a rumor that there are wheelers or dissidents in local gov’s.
They’d crack down on that in a second.
But corruption, feudalism? Eh, no big deal. Let it be.

July 20, 2006 @ 8:56 pm | Comment

Jeffrey made a very important point here about China’s legal system. His comment echoes a cynical comment that I made earlier about China’s legal tradition. The Chinese Communist Party is no better than the feudalist Chinese regimes in the past when it comes to law and order. The Chinese legal system is meant to protect the interest of the Government and hence the ruling Party against the people. While legal systems in liberal and democratic settings are designed to protect the civil rights of individual. Chen Guangcheng’s use of the legal system to fight for human rights is a serious slap-on-the-face for the Chinese government because when the system fails to deliver, the hypocritical nature of the Chinese legal system is fully exposed. It’s an embarrassment. This also explains why we suddenly have so many CCP apologies jumping in to distract us from this discussion.

Don’t be fooled by Pigsun’s English translation of his Chinese posting. He used a large amount of abusive language in the Chinese version, which has not been translated into English. Pigsun also admitted in the Chinese version that he admired fascist dictatorship and that he saw nothing wrong with it. I would classify this as a threat directed at Jeffrey and other Chinese commenters and an act of intimidation.

July 20, 2006 @ 9:07 pm | Comment

Okay, Peter, glad to know that was parody. Maybe you aren’t a paid agent of the CCP!

Now, about that email address…

July 20, 2006 @ 10:02 pm | Comment

Just between you and me, I actually AM a paid agent of the CCP. I work for Jiang’s faction. They’ve decided to take a leaf out of Mao’s book and create some chaos. Then they’ll have to step in to restore order. Very clever don’t you think? The first part of the plan is to destabilise society by posting satirical articles on the internet. If I thought I had the talent I’d have a go at poetry as well, everyone knows a government can be brought down by subversive poetry. By the way, what’s wrong with my email address? 8 is a lucky number, and I’ve seen lots of bigshots around my hometown with number plates like that on their BMWs. You foreign bignoses just don’t understand Chinese culture.

July 20, 2006 @ 10:51 pm | Comment

I know, I know..we’re hopeless.

Your ISP is a little…erm…is it for real?

July 21, 2006 @ 12:11 am | Comment

Peter, I don’t think that Lisa is picking on you. I remember reading something about sarcasm being the alta-ego of cynicism. There is nothing wrong with you being sarcastic or cynical. The trouble is, some people may find a sarcastic comment humorous, while others may find the same comment abusive. Besides, humour is very culture-specific. That’s probably why Lisa wanted to have a bit of a clarification. Incidentally, I found Lisa’s calling you a CCP paid agent very humorous, very funny. But obviously you’ve taken an offence. So I rest my case.

July 21, 2006 @ 12:21 am | Comment

Fat Cat, do you realise how many heads your last comment just zoomed over? And most of them don’t even realise it….

July 21, 2006 @ 12:31 am | Comment

Eh, I don’t think Peter seems too offended, though I may have missed a nuance or something.

See, we need more emoticons!

July 21, 2006 @ 12:42 am | Comment

Don’t worry, I’m not offended and I didn’t feel that anyone was picking on me. I hope nobody felt I was being abusive, although I guess Winter Jasmine could have made some people think I was insulting their English. That wasn’t my intention at all.

July 21, 2006 @ 1:55 am | Comment

No, I did get that it was humor. It’s just the ISP that threw me…still does. But that’s okay.

I’ll try to post some stuff in Richard’s absence, though he beat me to the karoake article – the “bad songs” are pretty funny.

And now, good-night. Past my PST bed-time.

July 21, 2006 @ 2:09 am | Comment

Lisa…how are you able to view others’ ISPs? (Admitting I know zilch about computers…)

July 21, 2006 @ 5:34 am | Comment

Summer Lotus said:

” happed to know a graduate student from Beijing University got some money from an “unofficail” orgnization in US., because he published some anti-goverment articles.

Where did the graduate student publish these anti-government articles?

Pigsun said:

“The CCP gives me food and house, and never arrested me, so I will follow it. If you really are ambitious and care about China, why not find support in 1 billion Chinese farmers, and create a rebellion force in Liaoning or Chongqing and fight the CCP like guerellas. If you do that, maybe I will support you.”

You have contradicted yourself. You said that you support the CCP because they have never oppressed you, but then claim that you would support Jeffrey if he led a peasant rebellion. There are, in fact, little uprisings all over China. Locals who are screwed out of their land or forced to pay illegal taxes resist the government and are beaten, jailed, and occasionally killed for standing up for their rights.

You would have made a good citizen in Nazi Germany. Oppression is possible when those who aren’t oppressed look the other way. But then, what can be said to someone who thinks like this:

“Simply because the CCP is Chinese, and Chinese is my root. So if there’s Chinese evil and Western evil, Chinese evil is more acceptable. “

Chinese are not a separate species from the rest of humanity. We are all human beings on the same family tree, rooted on the African continent. DNA doesn’t lie.

July 21, 2006 @ 8:59 am | Comment

“Simply because the CCP is Chinese, and Chinese is my root. So if there’s Chinese evil and Western evil, Chinese evil is more acceptable. “

What messed-up reasoning. You are, in fact, saying that if you commit a crime, and a westerner commits a crime, you are less guilty than he, simply because you are Chinese. I have seldom heard anything so racist.

I myself would be more upset at Chinese propaganda/violations of human rights/whatever than other nations’, the reason being that I’m Chinese. It’s my country, so I have to do something about it. Whether or not the western nations have commited similar “evils” (and from what I’ve seen they stick a lot closer to the truth), that’s not my business. But China is.

July 21, 2006 @ 9:40 am | Comment

Agree with Aramel. It’s incredibly painful for me to be an American right now, precisely because I am so ashamed of what my country is doing. I feel worse because I feel some responsibility for it, as an American.

July 21, 2006 @ 10:23 am | Comment

Chen Guangcheng has become increasingly high-profile in the media as of late, and I fear this may ultimately hurt him. Sometimes international awareness is a stimulus for change, but sometimes it just raises the Party’s hackles.

China does have governance problems with its decentralized federalism model, but like jeffery said, if the central authorities really wanted to do something about Chen’s case, they could have.

I’m hoping against hope the government in Beijing will set Chen up to be a feted example of a whistleblower confronting “local corruption” (to use one of their favourite catchphrases), and release him. Because he truly is an honourable and courageous man, and doesn’t deserve to be treated this way. It was only his misfortune to be born in a country with a legal system that is essentially non-actionable when it comes to civil rights.

And pigsun, you’ve got it ass backwards. That the present “Chinese evil” is indigenous/endogenous is precisely why we should view it as less acceptable, and not more, because the government has betrayed its social contract with its own people. If your “root” is really Chinese (and based on your comments, I’d say you are not Chinese “in spirit”, even if you are “in name”), because real Chinese patriots would [i]not[/i] denigrate and cast aspersions on Chinese activists who are trying to help victimized Chinese – [i]no matter[/i] what channels they may or may not be doing it through.

July 21, 2006 @ 10:41 am | Comment

Lisa, I feel proud to be British despite Blair and his morons. That’s because I vote and campaign for someone else.

If you want to feel better, campaign for the Democrats or campaign more if you already do.

July 21, 2006 @ 12:46 pm | Comment

Most democrats voted for the war because they were afraid of losing their seats in the next election to Republicans labeling them soft on Saddam.

July 21, 2006 @ 1:43 pm | Comment

Raj, been there, done that and have many T-shirts to prove it.

Sometimes it just gets to be too much.

July 21, 2006 @ 4:53 pm | Comment

The problem here is that the lawyer’s become a football that makes people want a disproportionate response (kind of like those two Israeli soldiers that were captured by Hizbollah, or those two German soldiers captured by the Polish on Aug. 29 1939). I guess that’s true in every case involving a dissident and an oppressive government, but in that case, we need to remember to restrain ourselves before advocating radicalism like quickly ending the CCP’s one party rule. China is not just Chen Guangcheng, as tragic as his case may be; so we need to justify our political opinions not only on sad stories such as this one, but with the whole picture in mind.

So I guess what I’m saying is I don’t agree that this justifies the ending of the CCP’s rule. Perhaps a better method of securing this poor fellow’s release would be to seek out the political rivals of his tormentors in Yinan County? I’m sure they would love to fuck up the officials there by securing Mr. Chen’s release to get ahead themselves.

My lesson in China… use the system, don’t fight it.

July 21, 2006 @ 9:22 pm | Comment

I urge everyone to scroll down to the post below about India’s banned blogs – we really have to keep an eye on t_co because, while I don’t think he’s intentionally lying, he’s inexcusably sloppy.

July 21, 2006 @ 10:24 pm | Comment

As I understand, Chen was in fact attempting to use the system, as you recommend. It didn’t work out so well.

July 21, 2006 @ 11:14 pm | Comment

t_co, Richard is absolutely correct about your sloppiness. No wonder Ivan calls you “Chairman t_co 70% of the red sun in our heart”. In future, I urge you to read the original posting and the subsequent comments first before posting your own comment. You are now starting to sound like Pigsun and Summer Lotus, who falsely accused TPD of intending to destabilise China. Their arguments had already been taken to pieces. So if you still insist on defending the position of these nationalistic fanantics, then you are really making a fool of yourself.

July 22, 2006 @ 3:54 am | Comment

What Fat Cat said. And let me add: The road to hell is paved with good intentions. Most of the Nazi Party supporters did not start out as fanatics, but rather as people with somewhat good intentions who thought the Nazi Party would do more good than harm.

July 22, 2006 @ 5:57 pm | Comment

Not a broken record; a necessary reminder.

July 24, 2006 @ 11:06 am | Comment