We’re a developing country!

June 16, 2007 @ 12:30 am | Comment

Crimes happen as gruesome as they are. The scandal was broke by local Chinese press, and eventually made to national news, the government acted to rescue the victims and apologize to the people. Was there government negligence or local corruption? Yes. But the media was free to expose crime and corruption, and the government acted quickly after the press report. This is not the best scenario, but the whole system worked.

Organized crime and corruption is not limited to China, but could it be exposed and be punished, that is the key for a working system. Sensationalize the news is not helpful, but the working of Chinese press–reporting the news and asking the questions, is indeed impressive.

June 16, 2007 @ 1:41 am | Comment

“We’re a developing country!”

Are you saying they’re not?

June 16, 2007 @ 2:50 am | Comment

The Chinese Communist Government has huge moral issues with slavery, so I am not surprised this story was allowed to break. This is also why the Communist Government is so careful in the foreign adoption area.

June 16, 2007 @ 3:46 am | Comment

Was there government negligence or local corruption? Yes. But the media was free to expose crime and corruption, and the government acted quickly after the press report. This is not the best scenario, but the whole system worked.

The system worked in this case. It also shows how far China has come. However, if the people who are invovled in this case are not punished harshly or get away with it i.e. suspended death sentence. It will happen again. Media and public have short attention span.

This also reminds me what happened to the Northern Marianas Islands slave scandal that we have. Again short media and public attention span.

June 16, 2007 @ 3:54 am | Comment

Whoever government officials that protect this slavery thing going on for so many years should be punished severely. We are talking about kids in slavery! I believe there is much more of this thing are going on right now in China.

June 16, 2007 @ 5:41 am | Comment

The difference between what the chinese media is reporting and the foreign media is that the factory managers and owners were either in the CCP heirarchy themselves or their family members were involved.

But slavery still exists everywhere. White girls are kidnapped from western countries and sold as brides to non-white rulers in the middle east, africa and asia. poor villagers are promised passage to western countries in exchange for a few years of labor, smuggled in cargo containers and spend the rest of their lives in sexual or labor servitude.

Perhaps slavery ought to be put at or near the same level as child molestation, ie no safety in prison for those who commit it.

June 16, 2007 @ 6:13 am | Comment

ferins-

What I am saying is far too often there is a pattern in China when wrongdoing is exposed. Ostrich defense, denial, begrudging acceptance of a problem but refusal to take ownership of the problem under the guise of “We’re a developing country” or “that’s just China” like they deserve a free pass.

Now, in this case there are the appearances of quick action, but there are also indications that party officials or there relatives were involved and some local officials provided cover for this outrageous treatment of human beings.

That leads to the next move from the playbook. If the actions can all be attributed to invidividuals or local government officials, then the central government can ride to the rescue and China as a whole won’t lose face.

There are also indications that this might be going on on a massive scale. There were recent revelations about children being used to make products for the 2008 Olympics and other stories.

How many other emaciated 8 year olds are there out there being forced to work 16 hour days that someone knows about?

Gueest-I think you are a little too quick to give credit to the government for protecting the workers. That is what government is supposed to do. In some rare instance where the government, after the fact, actually moved to protect some people (once the media spotlight was on the government and had they not acted, the CCP would have about 100 million people converging on Beijing to revolt) I am not ready to give them high 5s.

June 16, 2007 @ 8:13 am | Comment

ferins-

What I am saying is far too often there is a pattern in China when wrongdoing is exposed. Ostrich defense, denial, begrudging acceptance of a problem but refusal to take ownership of the problem under the guise of “We’re a developing country” or “that’s just China” like they deserve a free pass.

Now, in this case there are the appearances of quick action, but there are also indications that party officials or there relatives were involved and some local officials provided cover for this outrageous treatment of human beings.

That leads to the next move from the playbook. If the actions can all be attributed to invidividuals or local government officials, then the central government can ride to the rescue and China as a whole won’t lose face.

There are also indications that this might be going on on a massive scale. There were recent revelations about children being used to make products for the 2008 Olympics and other stories.

How many other emaciated 8 year olds are there out there being forced to work 16 hour days that someone knows about?

Guest-I think you are a little too quick to give credit to the government for protecting the workers. That is what government is supposed to do. In some rare instance where the government, after the fact, actually moved to protect some people (once the media spotlight was on the government and had they not acted, the CCP would have about 100 million people converging on Beijing to revolt) I am not ready to give them high 5s.

June 16, 2007 @ 8:14 am | Comment

I first came across this story in Xinhua.
Besides the shocking nature of this is the comment by “Guest” (appropriate enough) who ignored the numbers involved, the complicity and active involvement by the local government, the refusal by local police to do anything at all, and the horrific accounts pf suffering of those as young as 14, that, well, “Organized crime and corruption is not limited to China” but that hats must be doffed to the “impressive” Chinese press that decided to report the news after being allowed to.
“The scandal was broke (sic) by local Chinese press.” Should I first read such news in the New York Times as tends to be the case? To say “the media was free to expose crime and corruption, and the government acted quickly after the press report” shows how corrupt this country is. Once you get numbers of 1000 enslaved, the news will get out. And once such a story gets out, we are to congratulate the regime for finally doing something? It’s created the conditions for such a system by copying the KMT in everything until finally it has surpassed the regime it had sought to depose.
Normally ignore such comments, accepting that they are made to enflame the passions of those who take human rights as inalienable, but this case has really disturbed me.

June 16, 2007 @ 8:50 am | Comment

Last word:From what I’ve read so far, commentators suggest such high-profile investigations only scratch the surface of child labour, trafficking and slavery. With no free media, independent courts or rival political parties, it is easy for local officials to conspire with factory owners to ignore labour laws. “If China really gave the media freedom, you would see stories like this appearing all the time,” said Qiao Mu, of Beijing Foreign Study University.
(from today’s Guardian)

June 16, 2007 @ 8:52 am | Comment

What else is China up to?

Nation/Politics

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Inside the Ring

By Bill Gertz
June 15, 2007

China arming terrorists
New intelligence reveals China is covertly supplying large quantities of small arms and weapons to insurgents in Iraq and the Taliban militia in Afghanistan, through Iran.
U.S. government appeals to China to check some of the arms shipments in advance were met with stonewalling by Beijing, which insisted it knew nothing about the shipments and asked for additional intelligence on the transfers. The ploy has been used in the past by China to hide its arms-proliferation activities from the United States, according to U.S. officials with access to the intelligence reports.
Some arms were sent by aircraft directly from Chinese factories to Afghanistan and included large-caliber sniper rifles, millions of rounds of ammunition, rocket-propelled grenades and components for roadside bombs, as well as other small arms.
The Washington Times reported June 5 that Chinese-made HN-5 anti-aircraft missiles were being used by the Taliban.
According to the officials, the Iranians, in buying the arms, asked Chinese state-run suppliers to expedite the transfers and to remove serial numbers to prevent tracing their origin. China, for its part, offered to transport the weapons in order to prevent the weapons from being interdicted.
The weapons were described as “late-model” arms that have not been seen in the field before and were not left over from Saddam Hussein’s rule in Iraq.
U.S. Army specialists suspect the weapons were transferred within the past three months.
The Bush administration has been trying to hide or downplay the intelligence reports to protect its pro-business policies toward China, and to continue to claim that China is helping the United States in the war on terrorism. U.S. officials have openly criticized Iran for the arms transfers but so far there has been no mention that China is a main supplier.
Defense Secretary Robert M. Gates said Wednesday that the flow of Iranian arms to Afghanistan is “fairly substantial” and that it is likely taking place with the help of the Iranian government.
Defense officials are upset that Chinese weapons are being used to kill Americans. “Americans are being killed by Chinese-supplied weapons, with the full knowledge and understanding of Beijing where these weapons are going,” one official said.
The arms shipments show that the idea that China is helping the United States in the war on terrorism is “utter nonsense,” the official said.

John Tkacik, a former State Department official now with the Heritage Foundation, said the Chinese arms influx “continues 10 years of willful blindness in both Republican and Democrat administrations to China’s contribution to severe instability in the Middle East and South Asia.”
Mr. Tkacik said the administration should be candid with the American people about China’s arms shipments, including Beijing’s provision of man-portable air-defense missiles through Iran and Syria to warring factions in Lebanon and Gaza.
Apologists for China within the government said the intelligence reports were not concrete proof of Chinese and Iranian government complicity.
Pentagon spokesmen declined to comment. A spokesman for the Chinese Embassy did not return telephone calls seeking comment.

Iran boat threat
Iran is adding Chinese-made small boats armed with anti-ship cruise missiles to the Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps navy that can be used in attacks on shipping in the oil-rich Persian Gulf, according to the Office of Naval Intelligence (ONI).
“Iran still states that the [Islamic Revolutionary Guards Corps navy] will employ swarming tactics in a conflict,” ONI analyst Robert Althage said in an e-mail, noting that the paramilitary organization “continues to add boats armed with anti-ship cruise missiles, such as the FL-10, to its inventory.”
China began supplying Iran over the past several years with small, high-speed C-14 catamarans armed with the optically guided FL-10 anti-ship cruise missiles.
Mr. Althage said in response to questions posed by Bloomberg News that recent exercises by the Iranians did not show any new capabilities and that the maneuvers appeared designed “for publicity.”
Currently, Iran operates three Russian-made Kilo submarines but has not yet mined waterways, the ONI analyst stated.
A 2004 ONI report said the Iranian IRGC navy has more than 1,000 small boats ranging in length from 17 to 60 feet, and many are concentrated near the strategic Strait of Hormuz, where a large majority of the world’s oil passes.
The boats can be used in attacks against shipping and include infantry weapons, unguided barrage rockets, recoilless guns, shoulder-fired surface-to-air missiles and rocket-propelled grenades.

North Korea watch
U.S. intelligence agencies think North Korea is continuing development of nuclear weapons, as well as working on “miniaturization” of weapons for missile warheads, according to a senior Bush administration official.
Since the February nuclear accord reached in Beijing, North Korea has continued work on weapons, said a senior Bush administration official involved in North Korean affairs.
“There are no indications that they are not pursuing a nuclear weapons capability, to include the weaponization and miniaturization,” the official said.
U.S. intelligence officials think North Korea, which received equipment through the covert Pakistani nuclear-supplier network headed by Abdul Qadeer Khan, obtained Chinese documents on designing a small warhead, the key to developing a nuclear weapon small enough for missile warheads.
The Chinese-language warhead design documents were first uncovered in Libya, which gave up its nuclear program in 2003.
Three recent missile tests in North Korea over the past several weeks were anti-ship cruise missiles fired during exercises that were not unusual for North Korean military forces at this time of year, the official said.
“Those who are looking at the six-party process and where we are today with [the Banco Delta Asia funds transfer] are very disappointed,” the senior official said. “This doesn’t build confidence. This is a time that is very tense and we want to go to implementing the 13 February agreement. So even though this is a normal exercises, I think there is an element of disappointment that North Korea would move in that direction.”
North Korea has shown no signs of preparing of another underground nuclear test but “they could have a nuclear test at any time with minimal or no warning,” the official said.
The October test was a “nuclear event” but the blast caused by the test was smaller than North Korea had hoped, the official said.
c Bill Gertz covers the Pentagon. He can be reached at 202/636-3274 or at bgertz @washingtontimes.com.

June 16, 2007 @ 8:58 am | Comment

“”””Was there government negligence or local corruption? Yes. But the media was free to expose crime and corruption, and the government acted quickly after the press report. This is not the best scenario, but the whole system worked””””

Which whole system worked? The government is in cahoots with slavedrivers, and the media is the slave of the government.

The thing is that information is passed around a lot these days, people arent as broken by the CCP and a lot of folks are fed up with the media corruption and total corruption and exploitation by the party people and business people.

If the CCP decided to cover up this big fat slave story, the people would react very strongly, they would call the CCP on their crimes. So letting the story be publicized is the only way the CCP can have the people let out steam.

Do you think there will be investigations into these kinds of ihumane crimes? Do you think the CCP will be able to clamp down and this kind of inhumane treatment of people and corruption?

If the CCP did that it would be clamping down on itself. The CCP is built on such crimes against the people. It has treated the people so badly since it imposed itself form the beginning, so how could the CCP take a moral stance? It’s quite a rediculous prospect.

I fit condemns this kind of slavery, wont it have to condemn the Great leap forward campaign?

If it condemns inhumane conditions for slave labour and torture, wont it haver to open the labour camps for investigation, and give FgAoLnUgN justice?

So that is to say, if the CCP takes a moral stance and comes down on such crimes, the trend will lead straight to the most guilty party, itself.

That is why they don’t solve Chinas problems

June 16, 2007 @ 9:14 am | Comment

While there are certainly aspects of China’s political and administrative system that may have contributed to this tragedy, I don’t see much point in raking the CPC over the coals for hypocrisy on this one, nor is there any reason to laud the press. Marc is right, this is what a government (and the media) is supposed to do, even if Xiao Qiang is right that this is just the tip of the iceberg.

Sure, perhaps this is a case where the central authorities didn’t resort to cover-your-ass-style catastrophe handling merely because their ass wasn’t out there in the first place, but I don’t think speculating on what they would have done in some imagined scenario is very useful at all.

And nanheyangrouchuan, your snap judgment that “the difference between what the chinese media is reporting and the foreign media is that the factory managers and owners were either in the CCP heirarchy themselves or their family members were involved,” can be dismissed by a simple read of the Xinhua story, which talks about Wang Binbin’s father, or any number of Chinese-language reports. And the labor federation secretariat Zhang Mingqi said, “[Wang Dongji] could not possibly have been ignorant of the situation at his son’s illegal kiln. I say he’s not even qualified to be a common party member. This is a serious infraction.”

June 16, 2007 @ 9:56 am | Comment

A Notice from the Central Government to Censor News Related to Shanxi Brick Kilns Event

http://chinadigitaltimes.net/2007/06/a_notice_from_the_central_government_to_censor_news_rel.php

There are problems in all lives, families, cities, and countries. It is very revealing in how we deal with these problems as the difficulties arise.

When China had the chance to do something on a national stage and stamp out this horrific example of humanity at its most greedy and worst aspects, the government chose to bury its head in the sand and hide from the problem.

June 16, 2007 @ 10:58 am | Comment

This, however, is typical cover-your-ass catastrophe management.

June 16, 2007 @ 12:03 pm | Comment

For those in fast-reforming China who can’t open the link provided by zhwj, here’s the whole thing:
—————————————————————–

A Notice from the Central Government to Censor News Related to Shanxi Brick Kilns Event

Posted by Mo Ming :: 2007-06-15, 03:47 PM :: Society

Regarding the kidnapping of about 1,000 children in Shanxi province, the Chinese central government has announced a policy, not on how to punish the ruthless kiln owners and the perfunctory local officials and police, but on how to censor the related news and save the face of the party and the government. Here is the translation of a notice released by the CPC Central Office of External Communication, one of the party�s main propaganda arms.

All External Communication Offices, Central and Local Main News Websites:
Regarding the Shanxi �illegal brick kilns� event, all websites should reinforce positive propaganda, put more emphasis on the forceful measures that the central and local governments have already taken, and close the comment function in the related news reports.

The Internet Bureau, CPC Central Office of External Communication June 15, 2007

——————————————————————-

Kind of makes “Guest’s” earlier comment look either willfully ignorant or like something posted by a paid CCP shill.

Look, I’m really glad the government handled this and let the story out, even with their usual thumbprint of censorship. But to laud them as if this is proof of their openness and magnanimity is truly bizarre. The government exists to protect and represents its citizens. I think all of us know, even though “it’s getting better,” the CCP comes up woefully short when it comes to what is ostensibly its raisson d’etre.

June 16, 2007 @ 12:24 pm | Comment

My wife’s reaction was so typical, but what she said at the end I thought was pretty interesting.

M: Did you hear this story about slave labor in Henan?
W: It was child labor.
M: And slaves.
W: Did you see it with your own eyes?
M: No, but I’m looking at an official Chinese government picture of it here on Xinhua.
W: America had this before too.
M: Do you want to come look at this so you’ll believe that it’s not just foreigners saying bad things about China?
W: No. Everyone knows that China is capitalist now. Slavery happens at the beginning of capitalism. There’s no use thinking about it. It will just make you hate China.

June 16, 2007 @ 12:30 pm | Comment

Amazing, Kevin. But not really so amazing, I’m afraid. We see it here virtually every day.

Nanhe, please don’t post entire irrelevant articles here. Especially articles by the Moonie Times’ resident China hater Bill Gertz. I’ll believe China Daily before I believe Gertz and the W. Times.

Mingtian, you are banned, remember? But it was nice to see you back for a moment, making the argument that America is slavery headquarters for the world. Kneejerk, automaton reaction.

June 16, 2007 @ 12:41 pm | Comment

mingtian,

Just out of curiosity, are American citizens forbidden or deterred by the American government from discussing the trafficking you point out above?

June 16, 2007 @ 12:42 pm | Comment

Wow. Mingtian really is banned. Ah well, feeding the trolls isn’t really a good idea anyway.

June 16, 2007 @ 12:46 pm | Comment

Sorry, Kevin – gay-hating, Jew-hating mingtian made it to the very tiny pool of banned commenters, a real achievement. But you’re right, his point was as usual an idiotic one. He googled America + slavery, found an obscure group that made the claim he was looking for, posted it here and declared “America is just as bad as China,” more or less.

June 16, 2007 @ 12:49 pm | Comment

richard:

You probably still have trouble getting your hands around the scope of the tainted pet and human food/hygiene products as well.

And before you or anyone else brings up “well, the concentrations weren’t high enough”, diethylene glycol accumulates in body fat.

June 16, 2007 @ 2:03 pm | Comment

Glad you picked this up, Richard. I finally got around to mentioning this unfortunate story just a few minutes ago.

My thoughts:

Capitalism with Chinese characteristics? Seriously, as China’s economy continues to gain steam and its corporations spread around the world, is this what we have to look forward to? More Enrons?

June 16, 2007 @ 2:14 pm | Comment

nanhe, I liked your comment above on Bill Gertz so much I did a full post about it.

I can’t take you seriously when you quote someone like that. About the food/toothpaste threat, I have come to no conclusions about how dangerous it may or may not be. As I’ve said from the very beginning, it’s a huge story and it’s implications for China’s export-driven economy can’t be exaggerated. As soon as I hear more evidence about how bad it is, as you maintain, I’ll cover it. But your sources had better be more reliable than Moonie Times’ Gertz.

June 16, 2007 @ 10:02 pm | Comment

My Take on the Shanxi Wage Conflict Incident

Before discussing this issue, I must first express an attitude. The attitude is: serious, sincere, honest. If you cannot discuss this seriously, sincerely, and honestly, then please do not read this.

From an engineering mindset, I believe the this incident is fundamentally an example of employer-employee wage conflict.

The employer, in my opinion, has three faults. The first is that the working conditions and environment provided by the employer is poor and sub-standard. Second is that the wages paid by the employers are below market-level. The third is that the employer had delays in paying out the wages on time. These are the three fundamental faults by the employer.

We know that China is still in the early of socialist construction, and its laws are not as well-constructed and comprehensive. And there are indeed many legal loopholes in employment law and hiring regulations. So how should we deal with these imperfect laws and loopholes? Well I think the most important thing is to not criticize the government too much. But rather calm and down and think about what is the best way to revise and strengthen some of these employment laws and hiring regulations, and close some loopholes that have been discovered from this incident.

Unlike what many others think, I believe the employers should bear the majority of the responsibility here. But no one is perfect, and as long as the employers can correct these mistakes, they are still good citizens in my opinion. They have contributed greatly to China’s economic development and real estate boom.

Overall, I think the most important thing for Chinese to do regarding this incident is to prevent its politicization, especially by the Western press and by many people on blogs such as these. It is the middle of June right, a politically sensitive month for China. Lots of anti-China forces and democracy lovers would use this event to launch another attack on China. Does America not have employer-employee conflict, does it not have wage conflicts, does it not have racial and sexual harrassment in the workplace? Just recently a dear friend of mine was laid off for no reason from a top American company, without even paid any severance package.

So I think this should simply be treated as a very plain, very normal employee-employer wage conflict that is typical of the free labor market of the 21st century.

June 17, 2007 @ 3:36 am | Comment

math:

You are so full of it. And societies can’t be “engineered”, they evolve.

Rick:
I’ll cover it. But your sources had better be more reliable than Moonie Times’ Gertz.

MSDS for diethylene glycol:

“https://fscimage.fishersci.com/msds/07310.htm”

published evidence that even small amounts that your PRC masters say is not harmful are indeed potentially hazardous because of accumulation in fat:

“http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/sites/entrez?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8135655&dopt=Abstract”

and here is the google search for more casual reading:

“http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=+Diethylene+Glycol+accumulation+in+body+fat&btnG=Google+Search”

June 17, 2007 @ 6:15 am | Comment

math, you are full of it. BTW, socities can’t be “engineered” they have to evolve on their own. China has had 5000 years, what is the problem?

June 17, 2007 @ 8:01 am | Comment

“Zheng” triggers a reset now. If you’re in China, try searching it in Google and see for yourself.

June 17, 2007 @ 10:57 am | Comment

Totally agree with Math this time! China will deal with this problem on its own, does not need your “advice”.

Before giving your “advice”, I suggest you read a famous novel called “Uncle Tom’s Cabin”.

These laborers have been rescued already by the Chinese police, and their bosses are already arrested. Let me ask you guys, who will rescue the people in Guantanamo Bay, in the CIA “Black Sites”? Stop joking me.

June 17, 2007 @ 2:02 pm | Comment

Welcome back, Red Star. Remember, everyone, it was Red Star and Math together who sought to slander Sun Zhigang a couple of years ago, so keep in mind they are joined at the hip. At least this time Red Star isn’t falling back on his usual reflexive response, imediately justifying an abomination in modern-day China by pointing to something bad America did in the past. Oh, wait…

June 17, 2007 @ 2:41 pm | Comment

Is it possible- at all- for anyone on this blog to write the slightest criticism of China without commenters saying, “Yeah, but in the USA……”

What does America have to do with slave labor in China?

June 17, 2007 @ 4:59 pm | Comment

Matt, what else can they say? It’s all they’ve got to defend the sins and excesses of their system.

June 17, 2007 @ 6:47 pm | Comment

by pointing to something bad America did in the past.

Past? CIA Black Sites are in the past? Guantanamo Bay is in the past? You must be a time traveler to the future (must be at least many many many years into the future).

In China, every media and newspaper are reporting this incident everyday, non-stop. If you have CCTV in your home, you will see that it’s playing this news again and again. Let me ask you, does CNN or NBC play the CIA Black sites or Guantanamo Bay news everyday?

Before accusing other people, look at yourself in the mirror first.

June 18, 2007 @ 12:06 am | Comment

“Let me ask you, does CNN or NBC play the Guantanamo Bay news everyday?”

Umm…yeah.

June 18, 2007 @ 9:25 am | Comment

All I had to do was Google CNN + Guantanamo and there sure weren’t ringing endorsements for U.S. policy that popped up…

First hit:

http://tinyurl.com/jtmz6

June 18, 2007 @ 9:28 am | Comment

Math and Hongxing,

At least one of you criticize Guatanamo.

Thats a place where accused terrorists are held, sometimes without legL WARRANT AND SOME ARE EVEN TORTURED TO EXTRACT CONFESSIONS, OOPS CAPS…

Thats one place. Could there be more places like that run by America? A few more eh, there could be… hmm, sonds like its correct for the media to criticize, yep, I’m glad that there are significant factions of society who use the proper channels to speak out against such injustices.

I mean there should be warrants right? there should be torture to extract confessions. It should be clear to the taxpayers what exactly the US govt is trying to acheive. Yep its good to use the channels available and there are plenty, to criticise and get to an understanding and kick out the person responsible if we dont accept the explanation.

That said, what do you think of the CCP one sided smaear campaing against FgAoLnUgN? Do you think anyone has the “permission” to criticize the policy? Do you think the channels to express opinions are avialable in China?

How many people are you aware of being tortured for this policy not to mention all CCP policy that derive from its paranoia?

There are thousands of hellish places in China where people are held for making the CCP afraid. The CCP feels the slightest hint of jealousy or fear and it uses national secutrity to persecute people.

Tens of thousands are persecuted and tortured to death in China.

And look at the morality of the “newscasters”, fake “teachers” who lie to the people. Look at the police and prison people who beat people all day long for their freedom of thought.

And you are so worried about Guatanamo? It’s more than a little phunky.

June 18, 2007 @ 11:13 am | Comment

I dont think things like slavery and torture etc can be considered Chinas internal affairs. WHy, because these things are against international law.

China has proven that it is not willing to stop torture and hellish corruption.

What excuse can they give to break international law and continue to be so evil?

There is no excuse and the people who are responsible for garding international laws that CCP is always degrading, are where? Are they on permanent vacation?

Also the CCP rampant hatred and torture of the Chinese people shows that it cant be an internal affair because the CCP wants to own the Chinese people. They claim that The persecution of people is their business, but how can it be seen that way? How can you say crimes against humanity committed against the people within China byt the governemtn is that governments internal affair?

What about the people? Who will help them? Do the people wish to be owned by the CCP? or the CCP to have them as their personal internal affairs? No way, no one wants to give thier life to the ownership of the CCP, if you were being persecuted and abused would you say that your case was your abusors internal affair and that no one should rescue you? WHat if this happened in my country and no one helped cause my abusor propped up so high the argument that human rights is alienable and a matter of internal affairs.

No sense, international law is there for this very reason

June 18, 2007 @ 11:22 am | Comment

canrun,

Few people will bother to do a google search about it. Yes, Guantanamo is not completely unknown to most people, but it simply faded out from most people’s sight. The very fact that you have to use google means they are no longer viewable from major newspapers.
To me, it’s a much more sophisticated way of hiding things than what CCP does.

June 19, 2007 @ 12:00 am | Comment

Math:

View this tragedy as a labor dispute is a big lie. The children never wanted to be there. They were captured against their will, watched by dogs, beaten and some to death. This is like during the 2nd world war, the Japanese forced Chinese and Korean women into prostitution. If anyone argue that forced prostitution as a wage issue, then can anyone force a young girl to sleep with him, then arguing how much prostitution he should pay her?

Kidnaping and rape are crime.

June 22, 2007 @ 12:27 am | Comment