One of my favorite reporters in China, Peter Ford, strives to provide some balance and perspective on this complex and emotionally charged topic. Although nothing he tells us is new to those who keep up with what’s happening here, it could be useful to the majority of human beings whose perceptions are formed by fiery op-ed columns, online forums and 30-second news clips on TV.
The question it addresses is simple: Have human rights improved in China over the past 25 years, and if so, how? The conclusion is predictable, but only because it is true: Of course human rights have improved, but Mao set the bar so low that even vast improvement is not enough; China still gets failing grades when it comes to rule of law, freedom of speech, and its oppression of groups such as Falun Gong, Uighurs, unauthorized churches, etc.
“Nothing we do today was possible 25 years ago. Compared with then, the human rights situation in China has improved like never before.”
And that enthusiastic assessment comes from a man who was fired from his job in 2006 as editor of a Communist youth newspaper for publishing an article that contradicted the party line, Li Datong.
But the baseline, he points out, was pretty low. “In 1983, I would probably have been arrested.”
Twenty-five years ago, Chinese citizens were not free to choose their jobs: The authorities assigned them work for life. Farmers were forbidden to live anywhere but the village where they were born. Nobody was allowed to travel abroad, except on government-authorized business. Nobody could dream of owning a car, let alone a house. Food was rationed. Nobody was allowed to set up a business. Western movies and books were banned.
Today, all that has changed. And as the state has relaxed its control over the minutiae of daily life, citizens have also felt freer to express themselves to each other. Among friends and neighbors, Chinese say what they think about everything, from their political leaders to rising prices to their country’s medal chances at the Beijing Olympics.
The dark side then follows, but the conclusion is clear: yes, human rights have improved for the majority of Chinese, and no, the reforms to date don’t go nearly far enough. Of course, to the polarized factions who dwell in the comments, simply acknowledging any improvement of any kind in China is to be a communist shill. And to others, bringing up the oppression of Falun Gong or Uighurs means “you don’t understand China” and “why don’t you just go home?”
Meanwhile, Peter Ford isn’t a shill for the CCP and I think he does understand China. It is hard for some to grasp, but you actually can hold contradictory opinions about China. You actually can reconcile your dislike for much of what the CCP represents with your finding some benefits (even – gasp – enjoyment) in living here. Just as I was able, when I moved back to the US in 2003, to reconcile my loathing of George Bush with my appreciation of the many freedoms we enjoy in America. My living there and enjoying my work and saying so did not make me blind to America’s evil or a shill for George Bush.
How can you reconcile the jailing of Hu Jia with your firm belief in fundamental freedoms? How can you reconcile the thousands of executions each year with your viewpoint that capital punishment is abhorrent? I can’t speak for anyone else. But I can say that for me, it is often very difficult. But just as when I lived in America, I saw the good of the people and the hope and, for many in China, the improvement in the quality of life, and I made the choice to be here, to observe, and to make my contribution by speaking out and condemning actions that I see as obscene and immoral. Like Hu Jia. Like the “cyber-dissidents” rotting in jail. Like Shi Tao and so many other journalists imprisoned for telling the truth.
It isn’t easy but it can be done, and doing so does not make someone evil. If so, then I have many, many, many evil friends, only I can promise you, they are among the most splendid people on the planet.
1
By snow
Hi,
Richard, I dont think I really know what you mean by reconcile…
I dont think anyone (rational) would say you are a George Bush shill because you like living in America. And I dont think anyone has said you are one for the CCP cause you enjoy living in China. I could probly dig living in China as well but I abhor the political evil of the CCP. (also I would likely be living in a small dark cell under torture etc, anyway, I’m Canadian so I would be sent home as soon as I opened my mouth, so its not a realistic scenario…)
I dont think you have to say things are rosy just to justify you enjoying the country, you enjoy what you enjoy, its not that significant. But you could be in an awkward position where in order to keep living in China comfortably, you have to tell yourself the party is not so bad, so that way you are cool with them… That would suck.
Me, I make no apologies for my stance on the CCP, because I know that I am just looking out for peoples best interests. I feel I know the scoop and other people are finding out little by little over the next couple months (I hope.)
I guess whether the CC has changed the rights can be looked at from several angles. It can depend on what rights you value most for example, or it can depend on whether the CCP has relaxed certain controls so that it could stay in control longer….
Thanks, g’night (-:
April 10, 2008 @ 3:17 pm | Comment
2
By A-gu
I think it’s best to look at it like this: there’s no question life has improved in China and freedoms are at an unprecedented level.
But the CCP leadership is still a bunch of murdering thugs who should be taken care of one way or the other. There are no excuses for them, even the progress of the last several decades.
Likewise, I think Bush & Co. should be charged at an international trial for war crimes, but, realistically lacking that option, they should at least be impeached and humiliated, and hopefully sent to jail but probably just sent out of public life.
Even that is a stretch; but at least I won’t be thrown in jail, tortured or killed in the US for posting a message like this.
April 10, 2008 @ 3:22 pm | Comment
3
By China Law Blog
Well said.
April 10, 2008 @ 3:22 pm | Comment
4
By richard
Snow: I dont think anyone (rational) would say you are a George Bush shill because you like living in America. And I dont think anyone has said you are one for the CCP cause you enjoy living in China
WRONG, at least in your second sentence. Even one or two fairly rational people lose it when you even imply something good might be happening in China, even if you say the CCP had nothing to do with it. They have a knee-jerk reaction, and all the rationality just seeps away.
A-gu, I think are thinking the same way, BUT I think you have to make distinctions. “The CCP” is not, as I repeat endlessly, monolithic. There is more than one CCP. I think Rumsfeld and Bush and Cheney deserve to be called “thugs” but I won’t say the Republican Party is “a party of thugs” – that would be irresponsible. Unfortunately the very structure of the CCP makes thuggism inevitable, but not everyone in the party is a murderous thug – far from it. I worked with some members whose lives are dedicated to helping sick children. Unfortunately, others are dedicated to far less commendable activities. But we need to beware the sweeping generalizations. They take away our credibility.
CLB, thanks.
April 10, 2008 @ 3:32 pm | Comment
5
By Kai
This sort of level-headed rationale needs a bigger audience. Cheers.
April 10, 2008 @ 3:43 pm | Comment
6
By A-gu
Dear Richard,
I agree the CCP is not monolithic; that is why I took care to single out the “the CCP leadership” in my post. There’s not a man in high office who doesn’t have blood on his hands one way or the other.
April 10, 2008 @ 3:59 pm | Comment
7
By J B
Well put.
So far as China proper goes (that is to say, excluding Taiwan, Xinjiang and Tibet), my only real issue with the CCP is that I feel it is actively suppressing the development of democracy, rather than it is not implementing democracy right away. By democracy I don’t mean the actual laws and political mechanisms, but rather freedom of thought, the ability to accept different ideas, and so on. I’ve been realizing the importance of this since coming to Taiwan.
However, that’s just my opinion- I also feel that the Chinese should be allowed to figure things out themselves, and the US or any other government shouldn’t interfere- I make an exception though for times when the CCP attempts to force people who may not consider themselves Chinese to be Chinese. Given America’s history (ie, rebellion against England which only succeeded with the help of France), I think any other position would be hypocritical for me to take.
April 10, 2008 @ 5:01 pm | Comment
8
By Mainlander
Richard, I appreciate your making the wise choice “to be here, to observe, and to make my contribution by speaking out and condemning actions that I see as obscene and immoral”.
As a mostly silent observer of this blog for more than 5 years, I learned a lot from the exchanges of fires between different opinions and groups, which were, of course, triggered by your threads/comments. There were times I joined the debate but didn’t get reasonable responses, but simply knowing that I was communicating with someone who might live across an ocean from me was a great experience.
I especially appreciate the up-to-date manner of the PKD, as a busy office worker I often missed important yet scarcely covered events happened in my country but thanks to your hard work I could always fall back to this blog to find records and catalogues of these events.
China is a complicated country, even as a Chinese who spent most of my life living, studying and working here, the more I know about her people, culture and history, the less confident I am about my ablity to feel the pulse of the time, let alone see the grim light of the future so as to adjust my life accordingly.
I can not speak for Chinese people generally, but it is safe to say that many, if not most of my colleagues/friends, including me, are living a life devoid of spiritual pursuit. Growing up in this country, it’s hard for me or my friends to feel close to any religion, yet it’s even harder for us to believe the indoctrination and propaganda of the government, to say the least. Actually, it literally disgusts me whenever I turn on the TV and hear the familiar but lifeless voices of those news broadcasters.
This must be changed, if this great civilization is to be reborn again. The suffocating system must be swept into the dustbin of the history if the potential of 1.4 billion people is to be fully unleashed.
But how?
April 10, 2008 @ 5:45 pm | Comment
9
By Jason
I’ve always felt that we should not try to isolate China, backing them into a corner will not induce democratic reform but rather will make the current system even more re-enforced.
Perhaps the best way to change the system is for China’s next generation of leaders to be exposed to new ideas, especially about governance. Show them that in the long run a more open system is best. This is being done at China’s elite middle schools. I point to Nanjing Foreign Language School as an example. There going abroad on exchange programs is the norm. Most western people seriously underestimate the effects this, and China’s opening in general, has had on this new generation.
If Chinese people want reform, want freedom and all that stuff then they need to do it themselves. Rights mean nothing if they are not earned, which may explain why we in the United States have lost so many. A revolution would just cause a mess, perhaps change from within is the best path.
Between now and then, the US has more important things to be concerned with: a collapsing financial sector, record debt both public and private, peak oil, resource wars (do you think Cheney was kidding when he talked about a war that wont end in our lifetime?), the list goes on. The US once lead by example, not by force. We have lost our way, and will pay dearly for it.
April 10, 2008 @ 9:32 pm | Comment
10
By Bill
Now that a 50 year old learned how to tie his shoe laces, we must consider him a full grown and intelligent human being. And I bet he will graduate to learning his times tables real soon now.
April 10, 2008 @ 11:36 pm | Comment
11
By dongdong
good post
April 11, 2008 @ 4:49 am | Comment
12
By snow
“”””I also feel that the Chinese should be allowed to figure things out themselves, and the US or any other government shouldn’t interfere- I make an exception though for times when the CCP attempts to force people who may not consider themselves Chinese to be Chinese””””
Thats all well and good J B,
but what about other folks who are being forced to be something they dont want to be? How can we stand by and let the CCP control all sorts of problems that IT created? I think the Chinese people should figure out the country’s problems, oh yes, but the problem with that is that they are not allowed. They are only allowed to say that the CCP should improve aspects of itself over a long peirod of time.
So the problem with repression is that the people who are repressed cant get up. They tend to need help. I hope the great Chinese people will be the ones to help their country men get up.
April 11, 2008 @ 5:27 am | Comment
13
By snow
“”””This must be changed, if this great civilization is to be reborn again. The suffocating system must be swept into the dustbin of the history if the potential of 1.4 billion people is to be fully unleashed.
But how?””””
That is a great question Mainlander. I think it is taking its natural course as we speak. Your contributions are for sure part of the positive outcome.
Call me a fairytailist, but I think the MAGIC GOLDEN KEY in all of this China, and the world for that matter, fiasco, is THOUGHT, freedom of thought and truth.
The Chinese people will never unleash their super greatness until what they speak is the truth and what they think are genuine thoughts.
Heres a middle way proposition for all Chinese people who cant stand the thought of desrting the party:
Keep the CCP, no prob, keep it if you thin its so great. BUT, get rid of the propaganda department, the WHOLE bit of it. Let the state cntrol the media, but now more lying. No more internet blockage and allow second party analysis of the information like reporters without borders.
Let the people have freedom of thought (at least in terms of not being directly lied to) and then they will be on their way to regaining their dignity.
If your brothers do not want truth and do not want to live according to reality, well, they are just total zombies…
My understanding is that as soon as the lying is out of the picture the whole thing will lay bare for the people to judge for themselves.
April 11, 2008 @ 5:35 am | Comment
14
By richard
Mainlander, thanks for the beautiful comment. The lack of spiritual fulfillment and the lack of values we so often see here is one of China’s great challenges. And yet so many of the Chinese people I know do seem to have done alright despite the spiritless environment – it sounds like you are one of them, someone who realizes that having moral values is essential to being a complete person.
April 11, 2008 @ 9:48 am | Comment
15
By nanheyangrouchuan
Dan at CLB pointed this thread, so here is a little story about what he calls China’s “evolution” in human rights:
April 11, 2008 @ 10:51 am | Comment
16
By Dennis
China is not going to make much progress in democracy until most of the senior leaderships are western educated so they have first hand knowledge about how full fledged democracy works. And more importantly, China will have full fledged democracy if a majority of Chinese demand it. Right now, a majority of Chinese don’t really demand it because they are mostly satisfied because Mao set such an abysmally low base line.
That’s the reason people don’t really understand why Westerners who criticized their government. They think the government did a great job already. So in private, they think that the Westerners secretly hate China and want China to remain backward. They urge each other to modernize and become stronger so that they can revenge the humiliation inflicted by the West.
April 11, 2008 @ 10:58 am | Comment
17
By coh
By asking a such “complex and emotionally charged” question, one wonders, in order to answer this question, if Richard would be willing to trade his kingdom for a horse? I apologize in advance for a poor spoof from Richard III. But I do want to make a point that ‘Westerners’ cannot simply become holistically Chinese by getting on a horse and riding it to China. Or, more interestingly, even if the magic yellow pill existed, would a ‘Westerner’ person take it? Careful, it’s not at all what you think!
Good thing the reverse can happen, a blue pill does exist that brings Chinese people into reality.
April 11, 2008 @ 12:08 pm | Comment
18
By richard
Coh, did I ever say I was “holistically Chinese,” or anything even remotely similar? I am not, and never will be.
April 11, 2008 @ 1:02 pm | Comment
19
By BrianJ
Freedom.
What is freedom? Freedom is the right to do whatever you want, as long as what you do does not prevent others from doing it. Put absolutely, that sounds absurd. Doesn’t outcompeting another business prevent them from doing business? Well, the answer is fortunately, NO. Outcompeting another business just prevents it from being a success. I think we should require a education in law to make this point nice and clear to all who dare to comment about such hefty issues.
Freedom is not some disconnected right to do whatever one wants: freedoms come with consequences. Our governments, and consequently we as people living with them, choose which freedoms create harmony and which ones do not. Falun Gong, David Karesh, Charles Manson, are religious groups that aren’t supported by the majority of people. Why? Ask the people.
The people, that is the majority, find the ideals preached by these groups to be absurd and appalling: Falun Gong likely believes something akin to: religion before life, or religion is more valuable than life.
Really any religious group that preaches absolutely that anything is more valuable than life is a danger to the mental well being and stability of the people that have to listen to them.
April 11, 2008 @ 1:27 pm | Comment
20
By snow
Brian J,
I know quite a bit about Falun Gong… I am wondering why you mention it right after you talk about the freedom to do what you want as long as it doesnt prevent others….
How come you are fanning the flames of the persecution against Falun Gong because you think they probly think such and such. If they think or believe this or that, does that mean that someone should come and beat them down into the ground and treat them like vermen?
Why not let them be free? I have no idea why you are making statements that support the horrible relentless treatment they are being given by the CCP and its lakies
And you make careless statments about what they ‘probly’ think, and you then say the peoples majority does not support them. You are worng about that. Do you know that the CCPs propaganda machine can control the majorities opinions? Didi you know the level of popularity of Falun Gong before the CCP turned on it and decided to mobilize all hatred against them? Check it out and check out the way they are being used as live organ bank for wealthy buyers on demand.
I have read their philosophies and I do not see any problem, they are against killing (even animals, not for non practitioners), they say you gotta not be jealous, not be show off, not be zealous, not be gossip, not swear and fight. You gotta have compassion, be a truthful person, you gotta endure difficulty and strive to be your best true self and go back to the realm of Buddha.
April 11, 2008 @ 2:00 pm | Comment
21
By snow
“”””””Really any religious group that preaches absolutely that anything is more valuable than life is a danger to the mental well being and stability of the people that have to listen to them.”””””
And I just hope you are not saying that there is something wrong with their philosophy because they stand up to CCP persecution and end up losing their lives cause of it. Yeah, they do stand up for freedom of thought, freedom to practice their Way, freedom for all Chinese people not be lied to by the propaganda machine. They stand up to the giant evil, and they even lose their lives OFTEN, and you better not be blaming them for that!
I am not a Falun Gong practitioner, and I will proudly say that I would WAY rather die than give in and be brainwashed by CCP!!!, for sure. If you really know you have a soul and multiple lives in many dimensions, then the souls virtue is key to your eternal happiness.
I do not want to die. I will not die, cause I live in Canada. There are only a few countries in the world that force you to choose between your thinking mind and your physical body, and the CCP is the major religion that forces one to choose. Blame the culprit not the victim.
April 11, 2008 @ 2:10 pm | Comment
22
By snow
“”””””Really any religious group that preaches absolutely that anything is more valuable than life is a danger to the mental well being and stability of the people that have to listen to them.”””””
And I just hope you are not saying that there is something wrong with their philosophy because they stand up to CCP persecution and end up losing their lives cause of it. Yeah, they do stand up for freedom of thought, freedom to practice their Way, freedom for all Chinese people not be lied to by the propaganda machine. They stand up to the giant evil, and they even lose their lives OFTEN, and you better not be blaming them for that!
I am not a Falun Gong practitioner, and I will proudly say that I would WAY rather die than give in and be brainwashed by CCP!!!, for sure. If you really know you have a soul and multiple lives in many dimensions, then the souls virtue is key to your eternal happiness.
I do not want to die. I will not die, cause I live in Canada. There are only a few countries in the world that force you to choose between your thinking mind and your physical body, and the CCP is the major religion that forces one to choose. Blame the culprit not the victim.
April 11, 2008 @ 2:11 pm | Comment
23
By tom
snow, i have lived in china for two years. why in the world would you comment on something that you have not the slightest glimmer of an idea of?
you make a fool of yourself. i realize that you are probably 16 or 17, so just take it for future reference, eh?
you might want to check out the china blog in the TIME website. or see what Peter Pomfret is saying on his highly entertaining blog.
Cheers,
tom
April 11, 2008 @ 11:32 pm | Comment
24
By snow
Tom, why did you send me on a Peter Pomfret wild goose chase? And is there something interesting in the Time blog? Maybe you have a link or a point of somekind or something???
I am lazy too sometimes, but to come onto a discussion forum and just blab out that I surely dont know what Im talking about is so low.
April 12, 2008 @ 1:01 am | Comment
25
By snow
http://www.time.com/time/asia/features/falun_gong/
Heres some stuff about Falun Gong from Time, I donno, I still dont know whats your point….
April 12, 2008 @ 6:03 am | Comment
26
By @.@
Here is a fun religion that the CCP can’t pick on. Believe in yourself. Believe in human goodness. There are certain things that help a society grow strong and endure. There are certain things that bring it into chaos and destruction. Humans will discover these through trial and error, and humans will come through, if simply because they want to survive (better). China has come this far, since Mao’s era. Why not better? You don’t need religion for morality. Morality is a rulebook for governing human interactions. There is nothing mysterious or divine about it. Even religions have changed to adjust to advances in human conscience. Just figure out what’s necessary for progress of the society as a whole, and you have it. God helps those who help themselves. =)
April 12, 2008 @ 8:57 am | Comment
27
By Paul Denlinger
Even George W. Bush, not exactly a deep thinker, can hold contradictory thoughts.
An example: when talking to his right-wing religious base, he talks about how human life is sacred. Yet when he was governor of Texas, he had no trouble ordering the execution of 150+ criminals in Texas state prisons.
Or maybe it’s just political hypocrisy…
April 12, 2008 @ 1:19 pm | Comment
28
By richard
Paul, do you honestly believe that is a fair analogy with what I am writing about here?
April 12, 2008 @ 1:39 pm | Comment
29
By Jen
@.@, I like what you said.
Indeed Weak minded people make the best followers. We all need to believe more of the goodness in ourselves and others.
April 14, 2008 @ 3:53 pm | Comment