Internet hoax? I’m not so sure. Just read about this in China Smack earlier too, and it’s just crazy.

October 14, 2008 @ 8:46 pm | Comment

Internet hoax? I’m not so sure.

Just read about this in China Smack earlier too, and it’s just crazy.

October 14, 2008 @ 8:46 pm | Comment

I know it’s not an Internet hoax – I was just saying, “like, this is so nuts, what else can it be? It can’t be real.” Now, having spoken to a friend who lived in Harbin for a while, I think the whole thing isn’t THAT impossible to believe. But watching it was definitely a surreal experience.

October 14, 2008 @ 10:42 pm | Comment

absolute power corrupts absolutely. no independent agency or media to make officials accountable for their actions.

October 15, 2008 @ 2:08 am | Comment

two groups of drunkards beatin each other out. This is news.. It just happened that the victim is a 192cm tall punk who thought he could just go ahead beating whoever in his way. And it just happened that he was messing with the cops.

Yeah, this is unfuckingbelievable.. this shit can only happen in China.. right

October 15, 2008 @ 2:31 am | Comment

And thank Jesus, that punk is not a Tibetan or a Uighur, or else, the whole Chinese police are fricking racists.. You guys should stop being whining bitches, go read the Chinese forums and see what people say about this.

October 15, 2008 @ 2:34 am | Comment

When the college kids rioted in college park over a football game or redskins fans upturn cars in georgetown after a superbowl win it is expected that the police will knock a few heads.

but beating an unarmed student to death. that is extreme for any country.

it is unfortunate that china does not have the appropriate oversight to hold officials accountable for their actions or to carry out a credible investigation.

just blogs.

the college student may be guilty of assault and maybe deserved an ass kicking but at the very least the officers committed manslaughter.

protect and serve. not obey or else.

October 15, 2008 @ 4:11 am | Comment

but beating an unarmed student to death. that is extreme for any country.

No, in America they shoot them to death. I recall they recently shot an unarmed, disabled art student to death. Try not to spin this into more “only China does it!” crap.

October 15, 2008 @ 4:20 am | Comment

if it happened in the us there was an investigation by internal affairs and the police officers were most likely suspended during the investigation. if it happened while they were off duty then they could have been charged with a crime. if while on duty they could have been fired.

yes it does happen elsewhere. but in the us there is still oversight by the media and other agencies. police officers are fired for excessive use of force and in general held accountable.

what is special but not unique for china is the lack of oversight and accountability.

just fenqi and blogs.

October 15, 2008 @ 4:34 am | Comment

but in the us there is still oversight by the media and other agencies.

that have become so corrupted or underfunded that they no longer serve any purpose and offer the general populace little protection from lies- as was seen in the post 9/11 months.

i think the answer is clear anyway, china needs more government transparency and a lot of reform but lets not reference america as any kind of role model.

October 15, 2008 @ 4:52 am | Comment

Lindul,

Wait, did you actually watch the video? It’s on TV. What do you mean no media oversight? The officer on TV promises to investigate the incident in a news conference. So what makes you think there is not going to be an investigation? Because this is China?

I can guarantee you that the cops will be put in prison, not they did anything wrong. I would beaten that punk if he knocked my head with a brick and he might drop dead. But that’s self-defence at work.

October 15, 2008 @ 4:55 am | Comment

no i did not see the video.

for all its faults the oversight over the police in the us is far superior to anything in china.

being a police officer does not give one a free pass to beat to death a college student who hit you with a brick.

October 15, 2008 @ 5:12 am | Comment

“no i did not see the video. ”

Then just shut up and watch the video, will’ya?

October 15, 2008 @ 5:22 am | Comment

after i get caught up with the first four seasons of “Lost”.

will leave it to the citizens of the PRC to establish the rule of law and accountability for public officials and other agencies on their own

October 15, 2008 @ 5:37 am | Comment

I would beaten that punk if he knocked my head with a brick and he might drop dead. But that’s self-defence at work.

Except that you’re not (I hope) a member of the Police. As a member of the public you will react out of fear and can get away with more, but even then if you’ve freed yourself you don’t have the right to beat someone to death.

As trained law enforcement officers, the Police have to show even more restraint. So what if someone hits them? That doesn’t give them carte blanche to start a kicking. They have to restrain the person and arrest them. If they don’t like that they can quit and get another job.

The only time the Police can kill someone is where it is necessary, which normally involves the other person being armed with a gun or threatening someone’s life where restraint isn’t an option.

October 15, 2008 @ 5:38 am | Comment

Raj,

I live in the great country, America. The shining city on the hill, ok? Cops here “accidentally” shot or beat unarmed people to death all the time. And in those videos captured, you don’t see the victim knocking the police officer with a brick. This punk is a 192cm sport-academy graduate. Pretty intimidating if you ask me.

Accident happens all the time, sometimes, one seemingly non-fatal punch can kill someone. I am not defending the cops.. As of today, all six of them are in custody. This is under investigation.

I am just saying, people should not jump into conclusion so fast because it’s CHINA. That self-righteousness aint work anymore. The new generation Chinese are well very aware of what’s going on in your collective heads.

October 15, 2008 @ 5:47 am | Comment

The situation looks rather extreme. If the police reacted in that way, killing the student, it means that they have lost control of themselves. That reveals a lack or preparation/training of those policemen.

There is no justification whatsoever for killing the student, the policemen should have had the means, equipment and training to restrain him.. or to call reinforcements, but things seem to have gone out of control. Basic instinct prevailed in the end.

It is not easy to restrain our basic instincts when we are pushed over the edge, but that is for what the police must be trained for.

That the job of a normal policemen is not an easy one in China does not help either.
Untrusted in many case by their fellow citizens, also under pressure of that political system and in some cases walking a fine line between unaccountable officials and angry/distrustful citizens in moments of crisis.

And not a good pay,.. for those that are not corrupted.

And yes. It happened in China…

October 15, 2008 @ 7:51 am | Comment

Seems to me that the student was certainly asking for a slap. I don’t think there are police in any country that wouldn’t react to his provocation in some way. But a well-trained officer would know where to draw the line and allow the law to decide how he should be punished. Not so in China.

Ferin and co. can say all they want about wayward police bullets and corruption in other countries, but police in China are not trained for public service; they join up to line their own pockets and to do some bullying in the process. In short, they believe they ARE the law.

October 15, 2008 @ 9:20 am | Comment

Those cops were not in uniform in the video, means they were off duty, they were a bunch of civilians hanging out for fun and got drunk. They had no means and they were in no condition to act like legal officers.

Like it or not, these cops will get serious punishment in light of the public outrage, death penalty is not off the table. Meanwhile those RMCPs killed that Polish at Vancouver airport, never even got indicted.

October 15, 2008 @ 10:32 am | Comment

What a great money making opportunity for an arms dealer. Anyone know of a good way to start bringing small arms into China? A fortune could be made and a worthless country could once and for all be brought to its knees where it belongs.

October 15, 2008 @ 12:22 pm | Comment

@Stuart
“In short, they believe they ARE the law”

Not all, not all.

http://tinyurl.com/44bg2x

Or at least some people things to be “above” the law…

October 15, 2008 @ 12:56 pm | Comment

@Tree Sitter

“I live in the great country, America.”

No surprise here, all of the knee-jerk “Don’t say anything negative about the Middle Kingdom, America is much worse” CCP shills commenting here are posting from the good old US of A – except for those who are posting from Canada or New South Wales.

“Cops here “accidentally” shot or beat unarmed people to death all the time.”

If that’s really what America is like, if there are cops killing unarmed civilians all the time (sure you weren’t exaggerating a little bit, only the evil CNN does that), why the hell are you still there? Are you on some kind of mission or are you a masochist or aren’t you allowed to enter the Worker’s and Peasants Paradise PRC anymore?

October 15, 2008 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

@Not_a_Sinophile

You seem to be trying to replace kebab boy, but we certainly can do without nasty comments like the one above.

October 15, 2008 @ 1:35 pm | Comment

mor,

you are damn right I am on a mission here. Mao’s revolution aint over. We’ll free the land and give it back to the Indians. Who are you to tell me where I should stay? Are you a Runningwolf?

October 15, 2008 @ 1:57 pm | Comment

What Mor said to Treesitter.

N.A.S. – I’ve warned you before to watch your words. Now I’m warning you again, and it may be the last time.

Kebab Boy’s blog is gone, by the way. I was shattered when I heard the news.

October 15, 2008 @ 1:57 pm | Comment

“Kebab Boy’s blog is gone, by the way. I was shattered when I heard the news.”

So that’s why Ferin is back. They’ve taken away his favorite blog.

October 15, 2008 @ 3:28 pm | Comment

@tree sitter

I didn’t tell you where you should stay. I merely asked you why you are staying in a country that is so dangerous. According to your own words, in America unarmed people get shot by cops ALL THE TIME! How does asking you a simple question make me a running wolf? And what is a running wolf, anyway? And I’m still wondering what Mao’s revolution would have to do with freeing the land and giving it back to its native inhabitants? That’s not what he did in places like Tibet. Let me guess, you are just an all American high school kid trying to talk about things you don’t really understand.

October 15, 2008 @ 3:41 pm | Comment

This whole incident took place only down the street from where I live and I’d like to offer a few thoughts on the issue.

The “Highly trained officers” who beat the poor kid are/were employed by the Provincial railroad bureau which owns the land on which the Box nightclub operates. These guys aren’t John Law, just chumps in uniforms. I would hesitate to look at them as representative of the whole of Chinese law enforcement.

Also, looking at photos of the body on ChinaSmack, I don’t see someone who was brutally assaulted to death. I’m willing to bet that the medical exam comes up w/ some sort of freak accident as the cause of the death.

Finally, for everyone complaining about a lack of a “check” on the police here, you haven’t seen 西大直街, the street where this all went down, for the last few days. Traffic was shut down on Sunday, and even today there are people gathered out front of the bar. Even the english-version of China daily ran a piece on the death.

I think that the reactions of some of you who read this blog shows the need for some more critical thinking and less uninformed judgment. Correctly disseminate George W. Bush thought!!

October 15, 2008 @ 4:58 pm | Comment

Who said they were “highly trained”? Are you a Republican who makes things up? (Just kidding. But not one said that.)

October 15, 2008 @ 6:06 pm | Comment

@Amerigo Vespucci

Good answer. No “tu quoque”, no “ad hominem” argumentation.

Facts, rationale and conclusion, and no recourse to self righteousness.

Hope to see more answer like this.

Just one comment though… I think it is “Americo” not “Amerigo” 😉

October 15, 2008 @ 8:32 pm | Comment

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ad-Y_aMKefc

For all those who’s not seen this video.. watch it and read the comments.

You know why some foreigners have bad names in China, coz you guys are so easy to jump into conclusions if it’s China.

if you think Chinese people don’t know where you are from, think again

October 16, 2008 @ 3:03 am | Comment

Tree sitter, we’ve all seen this before – not the video, but the kind of young Chinese guy who always lives in America and always points out America’s flaws and foibles the instant charges of any wrongdoing at all come up about China. You can find lots of videos and examples of bad things in America. One popular tactic in politics is to point to an example of an idiot doing something stupid and thus say everyone on that side of the fence is stupid. We saw it last week when two dumb teenage girls wore shirts saying Palin is a c*nt. Within minutes, the nutters were shrieking, Look at how unhinged liberals are, they are calling Palin a c*nt! And you say, Look at how bad America is, they shoot their own citizens and murder at whim and it’s worse than China and yada yada yada.

Nothing at all similar to the Harbin incident happens in America because we have a lot of checks and balances and the right to sue and even put up blogs about it. One popular video fen qing love to point to shows a cops shooting an Asian guy in the subway; this was a case of terrible judgment – but they believed, however idiotically, that he had a bomb or other weapon concealed under his coat; they didn’t kill him just because they could. Awful things do happen in America and in every country. Cops shoot the wrong person – but not very often, and when they do it becomes a national issue. Meanwhile, thanks for that link to the same video – it looks like you have a lot of friends with the commenters there,

October 16, 2008 @ 8:56 am | Comment

I am not denying that there are problems with the Chinese police system, nor with the political system. My problem with this post and several frequent commentators here is the knee jerk reaction to anything CHINA. Go watch the video and come back tell me that punk and his friends didn’t deserve a beat down. Now some reports are surfacing online that the victim was DRUNK and STONED. That might contributes to his death. He took off his clothes at middle of the night in fricking HARBIN. I put 10 bucks here, the cause of his death is a heart failure.

And it’s still under investigation, those cops were not in uniform. They were just reacting to a comrade being hit again and again by a punk.

Just go watch the video, admit you have some stereotypes on Chinese cops or anything China in that matter, it’s not a crime. We all have flaws.

October 16, 2008 @ 11:34 am | Comment

Ok, let me see if commenting is ok here.

October 16, 2008 @ 11:53 am | Comment

We all have flaws. And with that, we can excuse just about anything.

October 16, 2008 @ 12:16 pm | Comment

I spent far too much time in Harbin! Not surprised at all. Quite sure the city police collude in running a network of sex prisons for girls from the Dongbei countryside. All around a quite shady place.

October 16, 2008 @ 1:17 pm | Comment

“Quite sure the city police collude in running a network of sex prisons for girls from the Dongbei countryside.”

And I’m quite sure this kind of business is not only going on in Harbin. But let’s not get to deep into this matter, otherwise tree sitter has to bring up every single police and prostitution scandal in the history of the USA.

October 16, 2008 @ 1:47 pm | Comment

Kevin,

Picture/video or it didn’t happen.

October 16, 2008 @ 2:40 pm | Comment

@mor
“..every single police and prostitution scandal in the history of the USA.”

Being prostitution one of the oldest “business” on earth, I wouldn’t compare the mere +200 old US with the +2000 years old China 😉

October 16, 2008 @ 2:41 pm | Comment

Just for the record, prostitution should be legalized in China.. so I appreciate Harbin police for offering protections to the gals.. Good job

October 16, 2008 @ 2:50 pm | Comment

@Richard- Touche. I misread an earlier comment and in my haste didn’t check up on it.

@ecodelta- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amerigo_Vespucci

@kevin- What were you doing in Harbin? There’s definitely an alarmingly huge red-light district to the west of the Harbin Institute of Technology’s campus which seems to operate without police interference.

October 16, 2008 @ 7:45 pm | Comment

@Amerigo Vespucci

Yep. Language interference.

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9rico_Vespucio

October 16, 2008 @ 7:55 pm | Comment

@Amerigo Vespucci

Yep.Language interference

http://es.wikipedia.org/wiki/Am%C3%A9rico_Vespucio

October 16, 2008 @ 7:56 pm | Comment

If you don’t anglicize everything then the terrorists win. 😉

October 16, 2008 @ 9:50 pm | Comment

Just go watch the video, admit you have some stereotypes on Chinese cops or anything China in that matter, it’s not a crime. We all have flaws.

Chinese cops’ reputation will improve once corruption and brutality stop being commonplace. Until then it’s not much use complaining about negative stereotypes. This also applies to the other negative stereotypes China is known for.

October 17, 2008 @ 3:14 am | Comment

Peter,

Am I talking to a Klan member? I’m just asking, not accusing you of anything. I just find your mentality quite pre 1960.

And I was not even complaining. I was just pointing out that some of the commentators here jumped into judgment without looking into this incident(youtube video). Your words did nothing but verified what I said.

October 17, 2008 @ 5:58 am | Comment

This “victim” is a frequent drug and alcohol user. At the end of the video, you see the victim running away naked. Do you know the temparature in Harbin in this time of the year? The police has a responsibility protect citizens. So when the “victim” took off his shirt and started running, the officers chased him to give him more clothing and protect his life, as it is their job. If you watch the video more closely, you see one of the officers who chased him had a piece of clothing on his hand. Unfortunately, the “victim” was a frequent drug and alcohol user, during cold temperatures, such a person would suffer heart failures, and this is the cause of his death. During the autoposy, his lips were black, which is a sign of heart failure. The police should receive some minor punishment, because they did not chase him in time to put on clothes for him.

October 17, 2008 @ 7:50 am | Comment

Nothing at all similar to the Harbin incident happens in America because we have a lot of checks and balances and the right to sue and even put up blogs about it.

Yet the american government manages to get away with a) destroying the world’s strongest economy b) starting a genocidal race war in the middle east c) trashing America’s international prestige. Police brutality is out of control and always has been; and now it’s starting to get worse. Even when America was more of a classic democracy (when blacks weren’t considered human and women weren’t seen as possessing the mental faculty to decide anything) corruption and bad behavior on the part of the state were commonplace.

I don’t think the problem is the “checks and balances” though. a democracy eventually adjusts into being an expression of the people’s will, anyway. Even if 51% of people are idiots.

I wouldn’t be surprised if Sarah Palin ended up being America’s next president.

October 17, 2008 @ 8:51 am | Comment

There’s America, and then there’s America under bush. The latter is an aberration, the exact opposite of what America’s Founding Fathers envisaged. Sarah Palin will never be our president. The American people have rejected her, aside from the usual Evangelical GOP base, the ones who want to teach creationism and whose most beloved possession is their shotgun.

October 17, 2008 @ 9:19 am | Comment

I don’t want to belabor the point but history shows that no, it’s really not an aberration. Horrible things have been happening in America ever since it was first invaded. There was slavery, genocide, child labor, etc. Horrible environmental record up until now. Several wars killing hundreds of thousands for commodities. Non-whites couldn’t vote, own land, were experimented on, lynched, etc. Beating up people for “looking gay” is still done all over the place, etc.

It seems to go back and forth. I think Bush really just shattered the myth of America being a more godlike or moral country. People are seeing America for what it really is and always has been; a country every bit as ruthlessly pragmatic as every other country. Only a lot more powerful and influential.

Hopefully people will learn their lesson from the past 8 years, but I bet they won’t. If they finally get some sense they’re just going to forget it in 10 years time anyway.

October 17, 2008 @ 10:24 am | Comment

Horrible things in America have been outnumbered by the good things America has done – ask just about any country that’s been in trouble. And most of the horrors you mentioned were made history by a free press and a progressive mindset. Look into any country’s history and you’ll find horrible things. China still has child labor and slavery. Bush changed America by allowing anything and everything in the name of fighting “terrorism.” I can go into this in tedious detail, but I’ve done that before. Torture, disbanding habeas corpus, turning the executive branch into a covert institution beyond the law, conducting a war on science – it’s all Bush.

To my nutter friends who brush all of this away with cries of “Bush Derangement Syndrome”: BDS doesn’t exist. It’s not derangement if you can point out precisely why Bush gets you angry. Clinton Derangement Syndrome, on the other hand, was truly deranged because their claims were fantastical absurdities (Clinton body count and hundreds of other fictions about their personal lives, Hillary’s lesbianism, Vince Fposter’s murder, etc.).

October 17, 2008 @ 11:12 am | Comment

@amerigo- i was involved in both language training and work in harbin. i must be quite an unlucky person to have had so much in my life related to harbin (china’s detroit) in such a short span of time. you could toss any news story at me, like “harbin city mayor exiles all citizens besides prostitutes and gangsters and spends retired citizens’ pensions on crappy drugs” and I would just say “oh well, that’s harbin!”
nevertheless, let’s get back to changing the subject to america, shall we? i see that my favorite racist ferin has returned from his reptilian hibernation…
PS- tree sitter congratulated harbin police for doing a “good job” after i cited brothels/prisons (perhaps i should highlight prisons). i am certainly not opposed to prostitution in and of itself, but forced captive prostitution is an entirely different matter. such trends seem to occur in cities across china, but harbin is particularly pronounced in many respects. the entire city is the epitome of the corruption that plagues governance in china.

October 17, 2008 @ 1:32 pm | Comment

@tree sitter, hongxing, ferin and all the other “America is an Evil Empire, but I still prefer to live there rather than in the Middle Kingdom” clowns

Recently, several visitors complained that this blog is more about American politics than about China. I don’t agree with their complaints, but let’s at least stay on topic in the China threads. I’m sure I’m not the only one who is damn tired of your “you shall not say anything negative about China, because the USA are much worse” litanies. And I’m not even American.

October 17, 2008 @ 7:11 pm | Comment

A must read for anyone who is interested in this incident:

http://news.wenxuecity.com/messages/200810/news-gb2312-720834.html

I’ll cut to the chase first. The primary cause for the dude’s death is drug OD.

October 18, 2008 @ 2:01 am | Comment

Hmmm, link is blocked here in China. At least at this moment.

October 18, 2008 @ 2:33 am | Comment

wenxuecity is generally always blocked in china.

October 18, 2008 @ 2:36 am | Comment

I just read the wenxuecity article.

In summary, the victim’s father is a real estate developer, his two uncles are high-up CCP officials, that’s why he’s such a douche. Plus, one of his buddies’ dad is the vice district attorney of the province.

The autopsy shows he was on meth and died of a heart failure.

Now the investigation is almost over, the commentators here owe the cops an apology. The cops carried themselves pretty well throughout. Go watch the video.

October 18, 2008 @ 2:55 am | Comment

Tree Sitter , you are too simple, too naive. Asking them to apologize is asking the Sun to rise from the West. When they read about this news initially, they read this phrase “beaten by Chinese police” and immediately they got very very excited, very very happy, almost cannot control themselves. They already too many dissapointments this year, from the CCP’s successful media victory in the Sichaun earthquake, to failure of the Tibetans to detonate during the Olympics. Finally, this time they got their hope up high again. Now the conclusion is out, and they will yell “what, you mean it is not an innocent democratic activist being beaten by Chinese police thugs of the evil dictatorial Chinese regime? Impossible! Impossible! I refuse to believe it!!!! We already concluded that he was another victim of the Chinese regime! Another hero! Another martyr! We were going to give him the Nobel Prize! His family will get funding from NED! Now you are saying he’s a drug user, his father is a corrupt official, he was a former criminal? I refuse to accept this! I refuse to accept!”

October 18, 2008 @ 3:06 am | Comment

Richard, if sohu is not blocked, you can read the same thing (comment #70 in the link):

http://q.sohu.com/forum/7/topic/4005745?pg=3

Hopefully the reading is not too challenging for non-native speakers.

October 18, 2008 @ 3:10 am | Comment

Excuse me for another post but I usually don’t visit sohu. The news of autopsy result, the background info on the dead dude’s thuggish history and his rich and powerful family, and netizens’ reactions have become such hot topics right now that you can find them on q.sohu’s front page.

http://q.sohu.com/

October 18, 2008 @ 3:32 am | Comment

Hey. So the guy did deserve to die after all. Everyone can sleep well tonight. Apparently not having rule of law or accountability for public officials really does work better.

Maybe the harbin police force can get to the bottom of the lincoln and kennedy assasinations and clear up the vince foster “suicide”

The only thing I am certain of is that I was not there and have no direct knowledge of any of the events in harbin.

But when ever someone dies and the police are involved there should be an independent unbiased investigation. Protects the police and the public.

Regardless of the “truth” of the event I doubt there was anything independent or unbiased about the sohu reports or the initial reporting.

If china’s officials had more transparency and independent oversight then they would be able to gain more trust in general.

The crystal method overdose story sounds odd to me. But have seen similar scenarios occur in tv and real life in the past here in the US.

The duke lacrosse players were not guilty of rape but it would be a stretch to say they were “innocent”

Maybe the kid died of an overdose and was a spoiled jerk. To me that means he may have derverved an ass kicking and 6 months at a work farm. So maybe the blogosphere is correct in the current assessment that the police are not guilty but it would be a stretch to say they are “innocent”, but then apparently neither was the dead kid.

October 18, 2008 @ 4:55 am | Comment

One more thing. Since his family was wealthy and connected seems perfectly clear that if he had lived he would have had the chance to use his thuggishness for the good of the people and possibly become a PSB officer or maybe even chief of police or even maybe sarah palin’s brother in law.

October 18, 2008 @ 5:04 am | Comment

Lindel, why does it sound odd to you?

Again, don’t jump into conclusion or stereotype when it’s something related to the Chinese law enforcement. The punk was arrested several times for drug using. Now I am not against getting high for fun, but after taking meth, even the dumbass on the second floor knows to lay low.. In stead this punk chose to take off his clothes in a fricking cold Harbin night and fight. I say, give him a Darwin Award.

And who the fuck here cares about your Duke/Kennedy/MLK/Rodney King or whatever problem your law enforcement have. Deal with it and keep it to yourself. The last thing I know, the cops are innocent until proved guilty.

You were not there, you didn’t see the video evidence, you didn’t read the autopsy result, yet you keep quacking. Because… you have the morally high ground for some reason?

October 18, 2008 @ 5:40 am | Comment

[quote]Maybe the kid died of an overdose and was a spoiled jerk. [/quote]

Very nice, very gentle. My friend, if you hits a brick on the head of a police without twice. You are not a jerk, you are a “violent criminal” (violent criminal is not my phrase, it is the phrase of the New York Dept of Police).

If I walk to a police officer at night in New York City, and hit him on the head with a brick, tell me what would happen to me? [ 1) would it be possible for me to hit him on the head with a brick? 2) After I hit him, and repeatedly hit him, how many bullets do you think he’ll put in me? ]

A New York police shot an unarmed black man 40 times into him while he was in his car. And the policemen were “NOT GUILTY”. These Chinese policemen would at least be punished.

So let’s compare: In New York, you are an innocent man and was shot 50 times to deaths, and the police officers were found not guilty. In China, you were a local gangster, a drug user, and assaulted the police first repeatedly. And after you died yourself of a heart failure from drug dose, and after the police tried to save your life by chasing you to give you a shirt, the police would still be punished.

Tell me, which society do you want to live in?

October 18, 2008 @ 6:55 am | Comment

the victim’s father is a real estate developer, his two uncles are high-up CCP officials, that’s why he’s such a douche.

lol.

But when ever someone dies and the police are involved there should be an independent unbiased investigation. Protects the police and the public.

Yep.

Horrible things in America have been outnumbered by the good things America has done

Estimates on the total death toll of North American Amerinds ranges from 9-20 million. i.e 98% of the population, if I’m not mistaken. Are you also going to say that the “good” Hitler did for Germany’s economy and the way he “fought Communism” outweigh the murder of 30+ million people in Europe?

Again, none of this “WE ARE AMERICA, WE ARE THE GREATEST!” shit is going to solve any problems. Sarah Palin might think so, but what is needed is true reform.

America is an Evil Empire, but I still prefer to live there rather than in the Middle Kingdom” clowns

Oh and “China is an Evil Empire, but I still prefer to work here and earn RMB and roll around in CCP money” types. Who is better?

October 18, 2008 @ 7:26 am | Comment

Ferin, I for one don’t prefer to work there.

October 19, 2008 @ 9:08 am | Comment

But you did, for the money.

October 19, 2008 @ 9:46 am | Comment

“Tell me, which society do you want to live in?”

Tell me, Red Star, which society are you living in right now? And why?

“Oh and “China is an Evil Empire, but I still prefer to work here and earn RMB and roll around in CCP money” types. Who is better?”

Who is talking about China the way you are talking about America, except for kebab boy who hasn’t shown up for quite a while? And who is rolling around in CCP money? Anything to back up such an allegation? As for me, I’ve left China quite a while ago. When are you going to leave America, since you hate it so much?

October 19, 2008 @ 6:21 pm | Comment

Who is talking about China the way you are talking about America

A lot of posters. Does it bother you that I remind you about America’s history? I’m not distorting facts or pushing an agenda. The fact that the “first Americans” slaughtered the vast majority of the continent’s Natives is not really a myth. The fact that they were involved with a murderous slave trade that killed tens of millions is not a fairy tale either. Or are you some kind of apologist for genocide and murder? Or is that only when white people do it?

All of those are simple facts. Just like how it’s generally accepted that Mao starving 5% of China’s population to death with his incompetence.

When are you going to leave America, since you hate it so much?

As soon as I can. Then again, I kinda want to stick around and watch the country pay for its sins. I know my future is secure. This just makes the fear and misery of formerly arrogant exceptionalists that much sweeter. Empires don’t collapse every day, I don’t know if I want to miss it.

BTW I’m guessing you’re old, you don’t have an excuse for going to “big bad evil China”. It just means you’re unprincipled.

October 20, 2008 @ 3:04 am | Comment

As soon as I can.

What, when you’ve achieved financial independence from your parents?

October 20, 2008 @ 3:08 am | Comment

What, when you’ve achieved financial independence from your parents?

Rather, when I’ve convinced [censored by the evil censor; watch your mouth, Ferin.]

October 20, 2008 @ 3:18 am | Comment

ferin, that comment is ironic given you accused me of being upset by your comments on the other thread.

October 20, 2008 @ 4:04 am | Comment

no no, it’s just standard procedure

“you live in your parents’ basement”

“your mother is a whore”

“you are fat in real life”

etc so on and so forth

October 20, 2008 @ 4:27 am | Comment

I don’t think the first two comments are equivalent of each other. The first can be taken as a joke – the second is never acceptable.

October 20, 2008 @ 4:49 am | Comment

woh woh woh

Let’s stop this craziness, shall we? China vs US, hands down, US… The air, the free speech, the weed, the women and just how the Americans run their country.. I’m often amazed by how great this country is.

But these six cops were not what some commentators wanted to make them to be.. The non-edited video evidence is there for everyone to see and if you refuse to see the facts, too bad.

Also, you guys should cut China some loose.. coming out of the Mao era for only 30 years.. I’m often amazed by the progress.

Richard, tell me if you can visit wikipedia.. and the recent lift of the ban on foreign journalists.. I know sometimes living in China can do damage to your souls.. but be truthful

October 20, 2008 @ 5:17 am | Comment

The air, the free speech, the weed, the women and just how the Americans run their country

They outsource all the nastiness to other countries. The national equivalent of Rodney King this time is Iraq.

The first can be taken as a joke – the second is never acceptable.

It depends on your sense of humor!

October 20, 2008 @ 5:47 am | Comment

It depends on your sense of humor!

Oh, so the fact you decide something is funny makes it ok?

October 20, 2008 @ 5:54 am | Comment

I think I’ll have to call a vote. I couldn’t think of anything stupid enough as a reply to your “you live in ur mom and dad’s house” comment. So I’ll say it was the only appropriate to say/type.

October 20, 2008 @ 6:00 am | Comment

*only appropriate thing
*call for a vote

whoops.

October 20, 2008 @ 6:01 am | Comment

@Ferin

“‘Who is talking about China the way you are talking about America’

A lot of posters.”

Examples?

“Does it bother you that I remind you about America’s history?”

It’s your history, not mine, since I’m not American. The question is, what does it have to do with the topic of this thread?

“‘When are you going to leave America, since you hate it so much?’

As soon as I can.”

Why can’t you now? Does the evil government of the USA force you to stay or is no other country willing to let an abusive troll like you in?

“Then again, I kinda want to stick around and watch the country pay for its sins.”

Now you sound like one of those nutty religious extremists. Maybe that’s what you are. And you can’t leave the evil US of A, because you are serving time in one of their prisons.

“I know my future is secure.”

Because you’ve been sentenced to life? What did you do?

“This just makes the fear and misery of formerly arrogant exceptionalists that much sweeter.”

What’s an exceptionalist?

“Empires don’t collapse every day, I don’t know if I want to miss it.”

Which empire is going to collapse? What are you fantasizing now?

“BTW I’m guessing you’re old,”

Considering that you are still in high school, yes, I’m old by comparison.

“you don’t have an excuse for going to “big bad evil China”.”

I don’t need an excuse, because I never called it that. Unlike you, I can see the good and bad sides of China, the USA, my own home country etc.

“It just means you’re unprincipled.”

How so? You have to explain that to me? Why does going to China mean that somebody is unprincipled?

October 20, 2008 @ 2:09 pm | Comment

“They outsource all the nastiness to other countries.”

Not all the nastiness, since you are still there.

“It depends on your sense of humor!”

How would you know, since you don’t have any?

October 20, 2008 @ 2:18 pm | Comment

Looks like Ferin dropped another dumb-bomb on this thread.

October 20, 2008 @ 3:17 pm | Comment

Examples?

Go read Not_a_Sinophile’s post about killing everyone in China if their economic growth doesn’t stop. The audacity of those colored savages, daring to develop their own country! Lets start a genocidal race war!

That’s exactly the line of thinking that got them into Iraq.

How would you know, since you don’t have any?

To let you in on a secret, this whole persona exists for my personal amusement at your expense. “ferin” was originally a dumb American born, aspiring Uighur terrorist on a different forum.

Why can’t you now? Does the evil government of the USA force you to stay or is no other country willing to let an abusive troll like you in?

Because watching America’s arrogance blow up in its face would be too great to miss.

Why does going to China mean that somebody is unprincipled?

Because you bleat on about “big bad evil Chinese Nazis” but love their money. Just like all the other “expats”.

October 21, 2008 @ 4:55 am | Comment

How did Not_a_Sinophile manage to become “a lot of posters”? And why didn’t you give your persona a little sense of humor? Or teach your persona basic politeness? And who is talking right now? The dumb American born Ferin, the Uighur terrorist or your actual self?
And what’s that nonsense about me bleating about Chinese Nazis but loving their money? Are you totally out of your mind now? Anything to back up all your allegations? I don’t know what you are smoking but you should quit.
And stop talking about expats in that derisive manner. When you finally leave the evil US of A, you will be one yourself.

October 21, 2008 @ 8:46 pm | Comment

You said most Chinese people think Hitler was a good person, etc. Not_a_Sinophile, Ivan, nanhe, Invisible Sky Magician (you would love him), that guy who wrote a song about people dying in the Sichuan Earthquake (some coonass retard), some bitter bitch complaining about Chinese men, some PETA retard who said he should “walk down the street and kill a Chinese family” after Richard posted some youtube video of cats being killed for fur (for export to Europe, no doubt), so on and so forth.

Aside from that, there is you, kevin, etc and other “Oh no, China’s government is sooo evil! But I still want RMB” types who think they know everything because their wife is Chinese.

Then theres Math, HongXing, etc who you all love.

Then a handful of people who post more meaningful stuff.

October 22, 2008 @ 7:46 am | Comment

Hey ferin, ask my wife if she’s chinese. The answer would be no. Race is not solely determined at birth.
Thus, the only reason that I purport to know anything about China is that I lived there for 5 years. More than you have in the past decade, as I understand.
Sorry that your opinions are so weak that you have to always delve into personal affairs. For example, when was the last time that i talked about any of your relatives? I can tell that you are a lonely person, simply by the obsessive nature of your posts; and you are clearly a racist scum, as I have pointed out many times. However, I try to avoid bringing this up, as your childish arguments are always so easy to deconstruct anyway.
I don’t want RMB, but you still insist that I do. Where’s my RMB, if I want it so bad? I can exchange my money for RMB and travel there anytime that I want! But I only do so when absolutely necessary. Personally, while the US might be on a downward slide, I certainly don’t believe that China in “on the rise,” as some claim. China will be in serious shit at some point, and the fundamentals of the Chinese economy are an utter mess. If you want to be an overzealous fenqing, please enjoy it while you can.
You have no way to rebut the statments that I make, so you claim that I “think I know everything.” Obviously, your skewed portrayal of me is simply a reflection of your own pathetic existence living in a place you irrationally hate. If that’s your choice, so be it, but don’t ass-ume that we are all pathetic lonely racist gasbags like you!
On the upside, using these types of arguments, you might be able to land a job with the Mccain campaign. You are truly one of the fenqing “guys and gals.” Say hi to Joe (Zhou) the pale pimpleface for me.

October 22, 2008 @ 12:58 pm | Comment

@Ferin

It’s about time you get yourself a new pair of glasses or learn to read properly. What I said was that a lot of Chinese people (a lot as in very many) admire Hitler as a great man. Everybody who’s spent considerable time in China knows that. I guess you’ve never been there, as a matter of fact I believe you’ve never been outside the USA. Anyway, I never called Chinese people “big bad evil Nazis”. But I guess in your pea brain world view saying somebody admires Mao Zedong (a lot of Chinese people still do) is the same as calling them Maoists. And if I say that a lot of Chinese people hold the CCP in high esteem (according to Richard even the majority) then, according to your logic, we are slandering all Chinese people as crazy Commies.
Regarding that list of names, half of them haven’t even been posting on this site recently. And neither Kevin nor I want any RMB, this is just the kind of inane allegation you come up with whenever you are running out of arguments which is – all the time. What I don’t understand is how Math and Hongxing fit in there. I thought they are your brothers or buddies, although their comments usually are only half as dumb as yours are.

October 23, 2008 @ 9:55 pm | Comment